P2P and Anshe - do I care?

And no option for pie of any sort either =\

Precisely! Thereby invalidating the entire poll.

Well despite what seems the popular oppinion I voted...
"Yes, I care. Lindens need compensate you and all hub owners or do something to preserve land value."

I honestly do care, I have no land that will be effected either way. I do however see that there will be a problem with land value for everyone. And anyone that says they don't care is just suffering some kind of jelous fit. What if you bought a piece of lake front property last week for say... $5000 and an anouncment was made that they are changing all water in game to pavment to reduce lag next week. Would you care then that your land will be reduced in value? even if you don't care you should at least be effected by it and have some say in the matter right?

Even if you don't agree that Anshe should be concerned with this, don't you agree that she should have some say in the change simply based on how much she will be effected?

Now all I know about Anshe is that I see her name everywhere I go and at some point I added her to my friends list "the only people on my friends list are those who have helped me out durring my time in SL since March 2004" and the list is very small. All that tells me is that she made an impression when I met her at one time and was very kind and helpfull even if I don't remeber it.


Please cut her a break.

And you just knew from the thread title the odds of a valid thread were slim to none. Though somehow a thread titled P2P and Anshe is somehow not at all about P2P.

Congratulations, you are about to get a law named after you. In forum debates, there is something known as Godwin's Law, which states that any thread becomes invalidated the moment someone mentions Hitler or the Nazis. When dealing with Anshe, any thread becomes invalidated once someone chimes in with "you're all just jelous(sic)". In honor of that, we shall call it the Baldwin Corollary.

BTW, people buy waterfront land all the time that gets crapped up, terraformed, has a new sim put next to it, has people build over it, and their land value plummets. It happens all over SL - the value of land fluctuates a lot. Anshe made quite a fortune riding the land market when it was at a high of $20-30/m - the same land is now worth 1/4 or less than that. Did she compensate anyone? Did LL? Nope. Investing in land in SL is a risk - one that Anshe has reaped more rewards from than anyone esle.

Douglas,

Don't get me wrong, I care. But she shouldn't have any more say than anyone else.

A while ago, I had to sell all of my land, because it was either that, or lose my house in RL. At market value, I had enough to pay my mortgage for another month invested. As it happened, prices suddenly dropped and I couldn't sell for anywhere near what was needed... the reason, land speculators like Anshe ... (note, I don't say it was her, or anyone else in particular, just the business they're in). I was also cheated out of a lot by my ex-partner. In the end, I think I got L$20k for half a sim... and yes, this land was telehub land.

So yes, I care.

But I wasn't compensated then. Where were all the folks I had profited off when I needed help? They didn't come to give me compensation. Same goes here. Would you compensate Bill Gates if suddenly half the world started using Apple or Linux systems? Of course not.

You want to make big profits off land in SL, that's fine. But it's a risk, same as any other. If it all falls around your ears, then maybe you deserve some sympathy, but no more than that.

of course we dont care.

we r the consumers, you r the businessperson. it is not our job 2 care.
if we were shareholders, then we would care.
we r not, so we dont.
thatz how it goes.

Your post makes alot of sense, and you didn't come out swinging I just feel for anyone who loses like this. And I do think that this change "as much as it will be nice in some ways" will change the flow of potential buyers and overall hurt the selling comunity of SL in high traffic areas.

This poll once again show one very frustrating dilema

The vast majority of people who voted here would just deserve me become the most selfish bitch. Life would be so easy if 100% of people would be selfish and inconsiderate, then I could also just become selfish and inconsiderate.

But the small minority of 10% still exist. My morals and my ethics exist because of them.

You manage to say so much in so very few words. I wish I could get my point across that succinctly sometimes

(I wish Prok could too. Maybe you could give lessons? )

Actually, I couldn't care less about Anshe, she's a businessperson, I'm more freaked out about how I'm probably going to get ****ed over just as bad as she was.

What goes around will come around folks. You're next.

However, I suspect something more desperate is behind all this. Anshe, you're worried about your telehub land, but perhaps you should be worried about all your land.

Start a poll! Quick! We can run a side by side comparison. See if anyone cares?

You pays yer money, You takes yer chances.

It won't hurt.
A lot of people already get away from the telehub areas as fast as they can already, because telehub areas tend to be (not always but...) laggy, slow to rez, and until 1.7, impossible to get out of. You'd be crashing into invisible-unrezzed prims, a glass maze leading you to the malls.

I have nothing against malls, by the way. I used to own one. I have nothing against making a profit. I have nothing in particular against land speculators (well, ok some of them, but I've never had a problem myself with Anshe). What I do have a problem with is people coming into the forums demanding compensation, sympathy and what-not every time they run into a hurdle. LL has already jumped through burning hoops for these people...

* No land now in auction smaller than a sim -- that hurt everyone wanting smaller land. It let the big buyers control prices.

* Telehubs -- increased the land value of those lucky enough to have land next to where LL built them, and reduced everyone elses to almost nothing over night. So OK, they're reversing this now, and the people who benefitted most are crying out that it's killing SL. The truth, it's not going to hurt SL. I've seen SL without telehubs... and it was no worse than it is now.

It's not hard in the end. It's Second Life... and when it's good, it can be wonderful. Like any other game/platform/online-community (call it what you will), when it stops being fun, then get the hell outta there, cos it's only going to hurt you. I don't mean quit necessarily, but there's nothing wrong with taking a break. Please, think before you jump on the "Sympathy for the Baron" (sic) bandwagon...

I can tell you what is behind this for me. It is one deep and long lasting concern I have about the state of the "community" here. There are too few people who care and are considerate about how things effect others and way too many people who just indifferent or even destructive.

This is not something just relate to P2P. It is something I observe since the first day I joined these forums, when I had to witness one mob of old players lynch one successful new business owner. At that time it wasn't me, I was still unknown newbie. It was somebody else.

Now I am not one saint. We are all human, all have our limitation and we all need work on ourselves. But why can't people simply care for each other? One day it is GOM, the other day it is stipends for the newbies, then it is telehub land owners. What is it tomorrow? Isn't there some way we could all develop some attitute to try be considerate of how things affect all of us, find solutions that not leave one group stand in the rain? Instead of just push the own small selfish view?

I am missing the community spirit here. Business owners are also people and most of them are not even rich or anything. If you look at their bank account, their car, their home you may be surprised.

No offense Anshe, but as the saying goes, if something seems too good to be true, then it probably is
Making money off a computer game is just silly. I would never do that even if I was guaranteed to make more money than I presently do, with a lot less work. Life is not about making money. It's about dignity. I am an engineer for god's sake. When I die I want people to say, here is a man who worked hard, built a career, faced interesting challenges, became an expert in the field and lead countless development teams... and be seen as a role model for future generations. "Investing" $25k in a computer game wouldn't achieve much more than get people pointing at me and laughing, even if I was lucky or "shrewd" enough to make a lot of money off of it.

And you're conveniently ignoring what everyone else is saying to continue with your biased poll so you can say everyone hates you.

It's not about you (for me at least). It's about what's good for the long term benefit of SL. And I don't believe that compensating land owners based upon an artificial perception of land prices that they chose to invest in at the prices set by them and their kind is a good idea.

But by all means, carry on thinking that everyone wants cheap oil from Iraq and nothing more than to see you get fucked over. It's more entertaining your way.

Anshe,

First of all, let me say how disappointed I am that this has become an Anshe-bashing thread. I had hoped that posters would have been somehow able to summon up that modicum of restraint necessary to deal with the topic at hand. Disappointed, I might say, but not surprised.

My own feelings are that the poll, like so many polls, didn't have a box that corresponded to my own feelings on the matter.

First of all, I can imagine how the landowners feel. This development is in truth an unfair and presumably unexpected one - although I feel that the wise landowner might have been keeping their ear to the ground on this issue, because it has been brewing a while.

But yes, you have taken a very hard hit, and the landowners with the largest investments have taken the hardest hits. I am certainly not indifferent to that, but I don't know what the solution might have been. Not possible for the Lindens to inform selected land owners that it was coming, because the news would get out, and a certain number of people would have to be selected - and that would be an inbuilt unfairness.

Certainly P2P teleportation will be a boon to many people. For me it will be a matter of enormous relief - I have two bits of land, one set to home, the other one 900m from the nearest telehub. Getting to the second one is a pain, especially if sl is not working right.

At the moment it's not clear how much of a hit you will take. We don't know whether the telehubs will remain - either as telehubs or community areas. One suggestion I liked was to make P2P only available to Premium (and Lifetime I hope) accounts. This would have the dual benefit of keeping the telehubs, albeit with slightly less traffic, and giving an additional incentive to upgrade one's account.

Ultimately though, I have to say this: Anything we do in Second Life, whether it be building a house, making furniture, running events or dealing in land, is an investment, and all investments carry a risk. Second Life could close down tomorrow, and we would all lose out. We all invest time, effort and money in this world, and we should be conscious that at any time changes could be made that would make our investment worthless.

So yes, I am genuinely sorry that you are potentially taking a financial hit over this, Anshe. You don't deserve it, and if it were me I would be totally fed up and angry. At the same time, I have to say that I am not convinced the Lindens should offer compensation. Again there would be difficulties over just who was worthy of compensation, and it would set a precedent. Those scripters who spend hours over a script and find that a new version breaks it are in a similar position. No one has suggested that they should be compensated.

One bright thing in all this is that all those who thought, or made accusations, that Anshe had a special line of communication to the Lindens and received special dispensation from them have been proved wrong.

The sound of all the apologies is deafening.

What the heck is a lifetime membership?

thats someone that never plans on a real life

After reading the initial post, I would have to say that there is something much more than just P2P, as you could have written it in a way that is more about telehub land owners, and less about yourself and your investment.

But because you chose to personally include your investment, naturally people are going to think it's a pity-party or a whinefest for what is about to come.

Frankly, when you start a business and you make an investment you take certain risks. You risk that your investment will fail, and you risk that your investment will lose value. Just because you have LL to blame doesn't mean they -are- to blame. And this post makes it almost seem like you wish to lobby them to go against progess.

This kind of reminds me a lot about something I heard on the news recently (Sorry, I have nothing to back this up) about some plans to make the state of Pennsylvania completely 'wired' by some certain year. What they wanted to do was set it up so that almost all of PA was covered by a wifi connection, so anyone, anywhere in the state could get online.

But the local telecommunication companies lobbied against it because it would hurt their businesses, and they won. (Though I am not sure if they actually won, or if they won by default because the project couldn't be done).

But personally, I believe that the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Getting rid of telehubs for p2p teleporting is the greater good for the -many-. So in conclusion, this was a risk you'll have to bite.

And frankly, your comparison to iraq's oil is despicable AND fallacious at best. Let's make it a closer analogy for comparison:

"I want P2P for convenient transportation. I don't give shit about telehub land owners and their business/investment."

"I want cheap gasoline for convenient transportation. I don't give shit about oil company profits."

There we go. That's closer to how most people feel. Because in the end it all comes down to money. You want your money for your land. We don't want to spend all our money on gasoline.

Anshe, I posted a short version of this in another thread which got lost in the noise.

You have been in Second Life a long time and appear to be very smart as far as business goes. You saw what happened to Gaming Open Market when LL decided to open their own currency exchange. Surely you considered they would make other sweeping changes that would possibly affect you without what you consider to be adequate compensation? I don't particularly like the p2p idea and I think I'm in the minority for that. However, LL has shown they will make major changes to SL that hurt some financially for the benefit of LL/the community. It is sure to happen again in some form. This should be taken into consideration when running a business here.

i dont see why this convo keeps going and going the hubland owners made the extra money on the land while they could and now its comming to an end.. why dont you all send a thank you letter to LL for allowing you to hype the prices of certain land for as long as possible. i mean whats worse than trying to go to a certain spot only to arrive at a hub 1000m away inside a freaking lag hole that completly laggs you out for a while or on some occasions causes you to crash all together. so if youre looking for a huge support group im afraid youre going to find only the few that actually own the hub land that favor it over the more practical god sent psp

Quite a long time ago, when second life had not become completely viable, an offer was made for residents to pay a substantial amount of money to become a lifetime member, and to own a tier of 4096 of land.

p2p*