Worth a shot

You are missing the point. Wow, it took you 6 months to learn to build, huh? That is one hell of a learning curve. That is why there are 30K plus accounts but you can never get more than 3K people online. The learning curve in SL is too high. People are not going to invest that kind of time in entertainment they are paying for. People want immediate gratification, other online worlds provide this. The new user experience allows you to get rolling right away, SL does not. Other online worlds have hundreds of thousand to millions of users, SL just broke the 50K mark and if you subtract alts, which probably brings the number to 30-45K.

Do any computer programming?

LSL is far from the best language to learn with, but it has the benefit of giving you instant feed back - you can make something and have it do stuff nearly instantly. As such, learning scripting teaches you a very useful RL skill - thinking algorithmically - and those who have this skill in RL tend to make good scripters in Second Life.

Just as the best builders tend to have a passing familiarity with CAD applications, and the best clothes or texture designers tend to know a thing or two about Photoshop, the best scripters are computer programmers, or at least have used similar things (such as scripting in other contexts - web pages or your typical moddable computer game).

I think what you're looking for is not "entry level" but "unskilled" labor, and here you are entirely correct. There are no ditches to dig in SL, no trash to haul or burgers to flip. We're all demigods in-world. Even the tasks that don't require "hard" skills - social things, for example - still require a proficency or talent of some kind.

I'm just not so sure I see that as a problem. The prices content creators charge are extremely low for the time invested, as pointed out; I built a Chinese-style pavilion, taking a good two days to do it, and heard complaints when I wanted to charge L$ 1000 for it. We are doing this for fun, but few people wish to work without any compensation at all. At that, there's a lot one can do without spending a single dime, even if stipends were to be taken away; I'm sitting on several thousand L$ mainly because I don't spend a lot, and that's not because I make everything myself; I'm lazy, I buy gadgets all the time. I just have no need to, unless I'm buying land or cashing out to pay land fees.

I wrote my first program in BASIC when I was in 2nd grade on a Apple IIe.


This isn't about me or my RL skillset.


We are talking about the average new member that comes to SL.

WOW thank you for the kind words. That statement pretty much summed up what I'm thinking. In my eyes what I see and I'm sure most of the people that aren't talanted at programming/animating/hosting/dj'ing/whoring see the same is Lindens cater to a very small percentage of their players. Those being the ones good at using the system. The system being getting hige tracts of expensive land and paying for it via GOM. Why don't I just quit? I don't know why. I guess it's because I don't want to huh. Is it really that bad that I hope for the game to be changed in ways that can make me find more enjoyment in it as well? Or are those changes only reserved for those hooked into the system? I'd be more then happy to change my account back to a monthly billing and even buy a small patch of land if it were worth it. Worth it being that I get some income as I did before. I'm not being greedy. I'm just asking for the oppertunity to buy that nice 250 L$ outfit or 1kL$ car or whatever without having to wait eons for it and without paying for someones land fees to do so. As I've mentioned before noone seems willing to share their secrets of creation with someone willing to learn, but not already knowing it all. I'd love to learn to script. Who the hell is going to spend countless hours with me to teach me though LMAO. Don't wanna add that competition to the already overflowing market ya know. I'd be happy just being able to do that stuff for myself. I could care less about owning $1000 a month worth of land. This is a game and that kind of money for a game is poor choices IMHO. Of course people will bash me because what I'm saying is infringing on their ability to sell their L$ on GOM. Give all your stuff away and live like me in SL a day or so then you can bash me for feeling the way I do. Like I said with no money SL is nothing more then Yahoo Messenger with cartoon characters.

I like this thinking

It does seem like SL is stagnating on the same plateau, as a means of "game-type" entertainment.

I do believe, however, that fashion designers do seem to be improving significantly. I myself find it so much fun to go shopping in SL. There is always something new and improved somewhere in SL in the way of fashion. But I also realize, not everyone may find shopping enjoyable (is it possible!).

Anyway, I do wish that there were other "game-type" activities that i could partake in while wearing my newly purchased outfit other than tringo and slingo

Hopefully the "game developers" of SL will soon get to working for us and create amazing game entertainment . Judging by all the talent I've seen in SL, I am absolutely optimistic that this will happen sooner than later

You can find people to teach you to create goods that compete with their goods, you just have to pay them for it.

actually I just wanted to note that people spend COUNTLESS hours in the texture, building and scripting forums helping out.

But this is all done in their spare time, and they are sacrificing having their own fun to do so. It does feel good to teach and help, and that's what motivates people.

However, when someone comes and says I don't know how to use a paint application -- let alone layers, alpha channels, avatar mesh, converting a photo into something workable on the clothing template -- well that's an IMPOSSIBLE task to communicate in a forum, or in chat. That person needs to go take a class or buy a book.

I'm not criticizing you, Corey, but I wanted to give a little credit to the folks that take the time to help so many people within SL.

No, I see your point clearly.

Thought I don't think it's mean to point out the economic realities of the platform, however. If LL were providing the content, then I'd have to say that it is unfair to provide such small stipends to the users with no easy additional way to earn game money.

Except that's not what's going on here.

SL itself really isnt' a game, it is a platform on which to build games (and whatever else we might come up with that fits the tools, no one's limiting us in that arena). The built-in economy is all about incentive for Jane Wannabegamemaker to make her games, or enhancements to games and players.

There's not much incentive to build full-out real, playable games in SL if, in the end, SL's just a giant money sink for you. Philanthopy will take SL only so far - and I think we've gone way past that point. We need the real world cash to offset or outright cover our costs for land and time spend in development.

LL is at fault, to some degree at leat, for what may well be misleading advertising. "Come play for free" is one possible way of interpreting what they've been saying. The fact is, "come log in for free" is what's really happening, and after that you have to pay your way. As you would for any other entertainment anywhere.

Corey's beef with the system is a symptom of expectations not being met - and I'm afraid the expectation can not be met by SL - where it could in more traditional MMO*s. LL very much needs to adjust thier marketing to preoperly fit what SL is. One world with the choice to pay or not for the other things that can happen in SL - games, socialising, and content creation.

This is very true - in fact its the point i was making in another thread-

As time goes by I expect more and more of the new users to be less technically savvy.

Most people in Second Life That I have talked to , know a lot more about Computers, etc than I do.

STILL - the free lunch attitude that some have is disappointing. I do not see how to easily mesh the concepts.

Most of the people buying Lindens in order to buy Content will be newer users, after all. After a while the Shopping bug just doesnt hit you as often in Second Life since you already have 5 black dresses, 7 pairs of jeans , 12 pairs of shoes, etc etc...

I think most of the reason older users would buy Lindens has to do with buying land and possibly a related business venture. Said business likely needs newer users to be sucessful.

So maybe the challenge is to keep new users happy with Second Life and interested in buying content - and not fostering such a feeling of Entitlement in them that they dont see why they should pay more than 9.95 for life - Or 9.95 per month.

Just wanted to remind everyone to please refrain from personally attacking those they don't agree with on the forums.

I tried for weeks in the forums to get even basic info to code a vender to sell my animations. Not one response. I gave up. I did get some help with Poser in the animation form though. But you see you're making my point for me. NOONE will help someone from the ground. In this game it's either know it or at least the majority of it or be broke and buy my L$ on GOM. One guy said if I paid someone they would teach. OK lets see I make no money. So no way to pay the guy to teach me some basics. So back into the circle jerk I go. I am a savvy person and given some advice on basics I can figure out a lot. I did so with Poser and even with PhotoShop. Although with PS I'm not even close to good.

Ok, you're not being greedy.You just want stuff.

Hmm.

If you read the tone of most of the most posts they are condescending and boarder line mean. I don't know why I am feeling so nice today I am making myself sick.

12 pairs of shoes is not nearly enough

Exactly. I agree. The challenge is to keep new members happy and for them to see the value in content in SL. You need something to hook them and make them want to invest in SL. The Welcome Area, ain't gonna cut it.

lol they are when 3 of my pairs i can change color at will - and they never wear - and none pinch your feet.

Corey's the unlucky recipeint of a bit of backlash, I think. I keep hearing this argument that I shouldn't expect to be paid for what I do in SL (and mind, it's a pittance, beer-n-skittles money at best) by a certain subset of those who don't make anything - the pure consumer. Which is to say, they want me and those like me to keep them entertained with no compensation for my time and effort. It's insulting and infuriating.

I think the thing you miss is that people that get free money do not support the content creators. If all the people that got rating bonuses leave, because they don't want to spend real life money on products, the content creators are not hurt in the least.

The content creator is only helped in paying his real life bills in Second Life when buyers pay real life money for his $L on the currency exchange. If the person got the money for being liked better than everyone else, then the money basically made every content creator's $L worth less. This is the case of the popular stealing from the creators. Are those the people we should say support the content creators.

If you used a rating bonus, that is fine, it was given to you. Some that are upset about losing the rating bonus, are upset now that they can't get anything for free. Who really loses when someone that isn't a customer with real life money in the first place leaves? I might miss talking to them, but I won't be hurt financially.

Ah, but it is about skillsets - not yours specifically, but in general.

What does Yadni's sig say? That bit about "other MMOGs you level up a character; in SL you level up the user"?

Why is learning a skill with real-world applications so much more repugnant than learning to bash imaginary bunnies in World of Warcraft?

haha...it helps to stay away from freebie newbie shoes, doesn't it?

Having said that, I have shoes in my closet irl, that i bought months ago, that I have yet to wear or have only worn once.

I know, I know...I'm crazy

You insult yourself. At no point did I say I would not pay L$ for your products provided your products were interesting to me. What I said is I would NOT buy your L$ on GOM to pay for your land. But it goes right over your head that I make NO money to buy your products with L$. You are doing nothing but arguing the point that I shoudl rush to GOM and pay for your land. Thus the reason I asked if we (we being the normal SL players) could have out income back. To buy YOUR stuff!

You have to keep people in SL long enough for them to want to spend money and buy Lindens. Less money in the beginning to get them hooked on shopping means they are more likely to leave. I dont understand why this is such a hard concept to understand.

Eboni,

- if enough people aren't willing or able to invest the time/energy/money to learn how to create/do things that bring income in SL (and like all entrepreneurs, be willing to face steep challenges, even failures along the way)

and

- if enough people aren't willing to pay LL for L$ or buy it on the open market in order to pay for the fun stuff they want

then the business model will fail.

remains to be seen, but yes this is clear. But isn't it too early for LL to be changing their business model? I think so... SL is in its infancy

Think about it most people you meet when they get to Second Life decide they need money.

Even after people shower them with Servicable free clothes, etc.

So to get that money ...

Some decide they need a job. And look at whats out there and decide whether or not they are willing to do what works available.

Some decide to buy Lindens to get started out. This amount varies from the $20-$40 range (i was in the catagory) to several hundred dollars (i shudder to think how much some people i know spent in USD on clothes they never wear).

Some decide to go into business right away. This avenue is most accessable to people who are skilled in things like Photoshop or Coding, Or are very fast learners. Still even for those with those skills , just like first life - bussiness's can fail to thrive.

Some upgrade to a premium account to get the larger stipend - yes this doesnt make sense necessarily on a Dollars per Linden Dollar basis - But i know many who do this. Many upgrade and dont even buy land for a while.

.... others prefer to say they shouldnt have to pay any more , that its a game and it should be free after they pay the $10. - I suggest that this group go to the $1 stores, etc. There is quite a lot of usuable Free content out there.


But as far as those who feel they should get stipends, and ratings bonus, etc. Well its not entirely their fault they have this "Free Lunch" mentality. Linden Labs and the whole Stipends / ratings / Second Life welfare system is just as much to blame for this attitude as the users.

Well, for me, there is no skill I can learn in SL that will help me with my RL career with the exception of increasing my project management skills. The limitation of SL make even project management in SL frustrating.


I have never killed a bunny in WoW, but Wow provides me pure entertainment and relaxation. I dont spend hours making something that sells for $.50 USD. A well rested and entertained Eboni is a better employee and manager.