Worth a shot

It looks like Linden Labs bright idea of completly stripping the common non developer type players income away to feed the greed of money changes has failed misserably. This is evident in the lower and lower GOM price. Was wondering if us non talanted people could get our only way of income back.

There hasn't been nearly enough time to gauge the effect of the cut.

Why don't you want to pay for the services of those providing content? Is it really so bad to buy a few L$ now and again?

Why are you making this about greed? I sell L$ not becasue I want everyone's money, but so I can afford to pay for my land.

This attitude is prevasive in Second Life. We want LL to provide us with loads of free money but then don't want to pay for content, tier (taxes), or entertainment (events).

It's very confusing to me. Maybe I'm too easily confused.

Comments like this remind me why I am disillusioned with SL currently. It would require a change in the mindset of most players.

Not everyone is willing to spend RL cash on virtual goods; they want to make virtual cash to spend on virtual goods. If I need money in WoW, I can just grind for a little while and get the cash I need or many something and sell it within the system. SL has nothing like that. You can't create content and sell it back into the system (sink), you can only sell to other Residents, who may be fickle. The amount of time it requires to make a business and sell content is a little high for people that have 9-5, family and friends, and distracts from the enjoyment of SL.

Tringo and virtual prostitution seem to be the almost only sources of income for the average novice user without graphics or 3D modeling skills, and ohh yeah, money trees. This part of the reason our events list has turned to shit and the conversion/retention rate in SL won't climb.

Actually you have always had the ability to buy money on currency exchanges such as you mentioned. Your only source of income has not been taken away. If you don't work in SL, use your work in RL for an income. Is it wrong that some of the money you buy pays those who work hard to provide you with entertainment?

If you were selling things in the real world, would you be happy if the government constantly gave out free money to buyers making the money you earn worth less and less.

The most recent market changes do seem to show a slow in the fall. Recently the price changes have even seemed to get smaller and smaller. We'll just have to wait to see if it is a real change or a statistical fluke. If it is not real, then Linden Labs needs to change more than they have. They don't need to bring back the original problem in the first place.

If you can't afford the cost of your game then you shouldn't play. Sounds like you should scale back on your land if you can't afford it. Simple concept isn't it? I'm just happy to see that their bright idea of taking mine and all the other non talanted peoples income away to make the linden worth more on GOM is failing. And yes if I use the services of anyone in SL I happily pay my linden money for them. Although now with little income those services aren't afforded very often. And yes it is bad to buy L$ now and again. The simple fact that real money is so mixed in this GAME brings out the greed and worst in many.

yeah, it is a mindset change.

You'd think a non-earning Basic User would be thrilled with the current state because the exchange rate has fallen faster than most prices have risen -- everything got cheaper if you are willing to buy a few dollars worth of currency. But I agree that a lot of people don't think that way about it. They do pay $50 and ~$14 a month to Blizzard though for WoW -- though I hear it's a pretty rich environment (never played) you get in return.

I think we'd see more jobs if the permissions, land and group tools weren't so limiting for collaborative and hierarchically-organized projects.

anyway, i'm simply in waiting mode... can draw conclusions once we are 3 months past the release of LL's currency market.

We need to end welfare(stipends to basic accounts) so people will learn to buy their money or earn it. The price one pays LL for access doesn't cover the cost of the content and services created by non-LL workers. Premium accounts deserve a small stipend because they pay monthly, basic users should not receive a single $L after the sign-up freebie. Why do people think everything should be free because it's on the net?

For the cost of a 2 hour movie one can buy nearly $L2000. That's about $L1000 per hour. I think people get in a mind set that counts the $L as $US. So when they spend $L100(about 35 cents US) they think they are spending $us100.

If one can't afford to pay the content creators and the service providers, then be happy with a basic account and no income. This is my humble opinion.

Let us not compare this to the real world. That is a straw man argument. In the real world you can find employment, in SL you cannot. There are no jobs here, beyond hosting and prostitution. If you are new it is hard to obtain those jobs because club owners want popular people to draw crowds in.

SL is an artificial world, with an artificial income. Real World economics make some sense but if we apply real world economics to SL, SL will fail. Currently, the "industry" in SL is horribly unbalanced. We have 3 basic industries, Content creation, Real Estate and an Entertainment Industry. We are lack a real service industry in SL. Residents can't "service" other residents products in SL, we have no plumbers, no mechanics, etc. There is no blue collar industry in SL. There is nothing you can so here without selling yourself or investing your own money. Also even when selling yourself, model, escorts, dancers, strippers, there is a large investment in skins, hair and attire.


New Residents that are used to no income from SL may not find an issue with this, but current residents will. People online are fickle, and will show disdain with their feet.

Corey, unlike other online games, players create the content (ie., entertainment) in SL. Without this player created content, SL is nothing. Scaling back on land (ie., content creation) means scaling back on content and it stifles creativity.

Content creators want to be compensated for providing content (ie. for providing the reason you like SL). If they are not compensated then,

A. They will stop creating content
B. You will stop enjoying SL
C. You will leave, and
D. SL will go bye bye.

Someone has to pay these content creators for their efforts. If not you, an individual who is enjoying and reaping the rewards of this content (ie., entertainment), then who?

Instead of chastising basic economic principles, and the necessity to adapt to changes in the economy of SL in an effort to make it viable and successful, why not propose a means by which content creators will continue to be rewarded for their services, without us, yes all of us (content creators spend money too) spending money to reward and encourage content creation.

P.S. - Why do I have a feeling this proposal will never come

I actually have to agree with your explanation of buying L$. I have played (and still do play) quite a few MMO's.. and they are all 15 dollars a month. That 15 of course goes towards the continued game service... but I also attribute that to goign out to see a movie. So as long as I am getting more than 2 hours of entertainment a month from a game.. then I am getting my money's worth according to real life standards of entertainment.

I have purchased L$ in order to afford what I wanted in game..honesly I spend hours upon hours in second life.. so its worth it to me to spend some cash here and there to support the game and the community.

The only thing I wish woudl be considered is possibly giving a higher weekly allowance to those who actually are paying extra fee's for land. I only have a residence.. I dont do business in game (I only DJ).. and it would be nice to get a bit more for the money I am paying.. but again I can see how that may adversly affect the entire community.. so its more just a thought than a wish.

umm this is a GAME. Why don't you create your content for FUN as opposed to INCOME???????? This is what's killing this GAME. I can't buy your freaking content because I am not talanted enough or conning enough to pry L$ from others hands and I'm provided no income from the GAME. Furthermore I REFUSE to pay for your GAME ie. your big sim and 1million prims etc etc etc in the form of buying your L$ on GOM. If you can't afford your GAME and sims and 1million prims that equate to fun for you my only suggestion to you would be to scale back to the point where you can afford it.

I just have one comment.. when was the last time you actually worked a job in Second Life to make some money? This is second "life".. not Second Fantasy MMO. I am sorry to come across so brahs towards you.. but as this game is second "life".. you will need to do something to earn cash. Personally I DJ for money.. I have DJ'd for 4 years online.. its a skill I have... but you can do just about anthing in the game.. there are always jobs available.

Fact is.. I want the builders to keep up the great work.. and I am more than willing to go the extra mile and put real cash in their pockets to keep it up because I love the game. Do you now care enough about the "awesome" content to go and work a few hours in the game for cash?

If one wants free content from people who do it purely for fun, come to the welcome area and ask, we give away tons of old, abandoned goods. However, if you want people to work endless hours on content so you can play for free, better think again.

Why would content creators spend hours creating just to give to you? Creators often create for fun, and never sell the creations. If you want a fancy chair or house, you have to buy it, or get a freebie.

One thing is certain, the quality of goods for sale in SL dependand directly on the compensation received by creators, exactly as it is in RL. The old saying is true here too... "you get what you pay for"

There is a good real life comparison we could make.

Would you go to Disney Land and ask why you aren't supplied with a job or free money when walking through the gate? A claim commonly made, is that a majority of people on Second Life are here for entertainment. That is great, they still have to pay the people that run the park though to get in. You see a cute little stuffed animal you want, should you get it for free because you already paid to get in the park. No, you should fork over real money that you got from your real life job.

Second Life is no different. You pay the owners of Second Life to get in the place. Then you pay the merchants that supply you with all the Second Life things you desire. If you think everything they offer is worth zero money, then enjoy everything in Second Life that is free. The owners of Second Life should not force residents to accept money with no value, just because the owner has already got his money.

Well using the example of WoW, which is an entirely different world, but competes for marketshare with SL. In WoW, I pay $15 after buying the game for $49.95. I don't spend anymore on WoW beyond that 14.95 a month. Almost my entire time in WoW, just by playing and doing the tasks set out for me I earn money constantly. No guess work, no marketing (well if selling Enchants then maybe). If my items dont' sell to other players, I can just sell them back to vendors.


In SL I have paid quarterly membership, and between $40-195 a month tier, and I have spent probably over $800USD aquiring land. SL costs money out of pocket, and currently offers less entertainment value for money spent. I have some SL income to offset these costs, but when you count time it takes to create content, I am still in the hole. I think a lot of people will do the math and move on.


The SL economy needs some real improvements (permissions, groups) if SL is to move beyond what it is now.

Think of SL is more like the internet then a game. There have been lots of debates on the game vs nongame for SL. If you want to, go search for them. If you view SL as the internet, then treat it as such. You can't just run a web page for free on the web. You can't just buy whatever you want based on some free money that you got from nowhere. SL economy depends on the balance of the causal user (you) and the people that create the content. If that balance is off in either direction, then SL will not be around for very long.

I have some questions for you, how much do you pay for other online games? How much do you pay for SL? Do you need anything really to have fun in SL? Aren't you still getting at least 50L$ a week?

1st of all I'm NOT here to WORK. Secondly as pointed out you can't 'work' unless talanted in 2 or 3 areas. I'm not here to spend mind numbing hours showing my virtual gentals to other cartoon characters for 1000 L$ for the 3+ hours. I'm not good at hosting parties. I'm not a good DJ. So lets see. What about a nice job as a legal assistant or flight attendant. What about a truck driver or nanny? How about a counter clerk or witress or cook. Do you see how idiotic your proposal is yet? Jobs that NORMAL people can do, do NOT exist. This is a damn game. This being the case if you're not talanted in 2 or 3 fields that relate to computer games your shit out of luck here. Be broke feed the money changers that can't afford their land and smile is your opinion huh.

This only works if you find value in the entertainment. I went to Disney World last year and I have to say there is very little value in the entertainment. Standing in lne is not entertainment, it is a trip to the Dept of Motor Vehicles.


Using your anaology, if SL is Disney Land then it works like this.


You pay to enter the park.
You pay to create the teacups.
You pay to ride the teacups.
You pay for the food, the drinks, the clothes you wear.
You pay to creat the food, the drink, the clothes.
You pay to provide the Breakfast with Snow White
You pay to eat at the Breakfast with Snow White
You pay for the land the park is on.
You pay taxes for the land the park is on.
You pray to break even, and you have blisters on your feet and your mouse hand.


I don't think anything should be free, I am a reigistered Republican for goodness sakes. I do think that if there are no ways for people to earn money in world, even just enough to create content (content creation is not free) then SL will die on the vine.

Yes a whopping 50 a week. OMG I can go buy a texture or something. Whoops no I can't because they're like 200 each. I used to pay 9.95 a month, but once they took any income from me I saw no point in paything that anymore. Without money all this game is, is an instant messaging service with cartoon characters for eye candy.

Now here's an interesting thought! Maybe content creation could be sent to dizzying new heights by the implementation of what I will term, LLMegaStore. I'll give an example. Let's say you create, for example, a virtual sofa. You would then sell the exclusive distribution rights to your virtual sofa to LLMegaStore for say, 250x whatever they intend to price it at. So if they felt your sofa was worth L$100 retail, they would give you L$25,000 in virtual money for the property rights to your virtual sofa.

Of course, you'd have given up all rights to sell your virtual sofa yourself, so you've been freed from the tedious and expensive task of having to market your product to the public. LL takes care of that for you. So now you're in the wonderful position of being able to immediately sell your L$25,000 on the soon to be released LLMegaMoneyExchange (or just keep it) and move on to create a stunning virtual chair or loveseat that matches your virtual sofa!

This could boost the L$ value enormously as consumers flock to buy it once they can spend it on absolutely ANYTHING they want in a one-click system that is COMPLETELY integrated into the client. Of course for this to work they would probably have to auction a fair bit of the new land flowing into the world for L$ rather than USD, in order to offset the enormous amounts of L$ that they'd use to buy virtual property rights with. This would cut out a lot of revenue, sure, but maybe that could be made up for in exchange fees at the new LLMegaMoneyExchange.

What does everyone think of this? Do you have any suggestions? Critisism? Just want to throw a tomatto at me? I think it'd be a great way to light a fire under both the L$ and content creation in general, allowing virtual business operators to better monetize their efforts!

If you want something, wait and save your money. You are already getting free money. If you wait long enough you can buy whatever you want.

My solution to those who can't or are unwilling to work in SL. Work in a RL job and spend an hours worth of income on $L. I never understood why a person would work in SL for $L100 per hour when they could work an hour at minimum wage and get $L2000.

I know quite a few content makers who need the RL income to afford the land they need to offer it. Are you saying only philanthopists should provide contant?

Why?

Many? How many? What percentage?

If you can't afford to pay the people making content for you, maybe you should stop playing this game.

???

This does not compute.