What about the poor people with no talent?

SL is open, bobby, but don't expect to see to many people in there. with the new fees 50$ a month service fee for basic accounts that come with no stipend or tier, it's a little steep for casual players.

No stipend or tier? I thought it included a 512m2 parcel?
Ugggh. It's worse than I thought.

Thank you dears for telling me,

Im in, Im IN!

Anyone for a Rating Party?

BB

aw c'mon! are you kidding?

not only that, ratings cost 25 L$, and you only get a bonus stipend for giving ratings, not getting them.

it's so confusing.

how about you pay me to rate you! i'm not rating again until the ratings are zeroed

likewise. truly.

edit: Sorry to be serious here and all, but would it soften the blow and get more agreement to zeroing if they had the old rates in brackets after the new ones?

Ohh well... I'm 99.999999999% sure that your boycott of the ratings system won't change anything or hurt anybody. Your only hurting yourself and your buddies who want you to rate them..

He hurts me on so many levels.

Some of us don't rate people because they want us to?

thanks for your insightful comments alby.

Just wanted you to know just how much power you really have to change things..

Now I'm pretty well off. I can make money when I need it, though I usually don't care about Lindens. I've had beef with the rating system(...When a guy can run around a month old and have a 2 dimensional gunblade as a weapon and have a higher build rating then me, I see a problem). I think the Linden's addressed this issue poorly and punished only the lesser talented users. The system needed to be redone, not quickly modified to prevent problem(which will create others).

If LL does this I think the fare thing to do would be to increase the overall stipend to make up for this deficiency.

Don't get me wrong. I can build some things, and even do scripting for them. It's just that I'm unable to build the kind of things that can attract a stable 'business' when there are so many higher quality goods out there.

When I first started coming to SL it didn't take me long to see who the popular people were as far as content creation and sales went. I won't list names, but I'm sure you all know of these people as well. These people probably won't be affected much by these changes because their source of income is off their sales. My concern isn't that the rich get richer, but that people who meander on SL for the social aspects get burned. This is in no way a "poor me I can't horde money from doing nothing!" plea, so stop right there.

Consider this. Who do you think the majority of people who buys the content these people create are? Yeah, people like me who can't make it themselves. Not the people who can just create it themselves 10x better. Without this economic model there's not as much money exchanging hands. My point is that LL could very well be making it more difficult for people like me to pay for this content that we depend on for our enjoyment, and in turn supplies the creators with the funds to create better quality goods.

And for those who tell me "learn to use the tools, noob". I've been dabbling in both programming and 3D modelling since the time I first got a computer. Back when you were required to write code in order to represent 3D objects.

Honestly, I don't -have- the skills. Some people are born with natural talent. Otherwise all guitarists would be capable of being super-famous rockstars.

On the other hand, these changes might do good. Perhaps LL has some master plan that they forsee from this. At this point, who really knows?

[Edit]
I just realized the irony of my statment. If the money exchanging hands drops then the content creators WOULD be affected as well. Sorry, I'm slightly dyslexic.

Being more of a socializer myself i understand entirely. Im not a creative type and dont own or understand much of the software required to be able to create and upload something worth marketing. I enjoy purchasing the wonderful items that others create and sell and being able to meet new people in world. I am slowly but surely learning enough about the building tools to create a couple of items for my personal use only and dont see myself as a builder, creator, or artistic enough type to be able to market or sell anything i do make. The weekly stipend allows me to enjoy the game as i learn more about it. Reducing the amount of stipend and raising the fee to rate other avi's in world doesnt do much towards making me more creative.... in fact all that does is make me feel stressed and less likely to logg in... and why pay for something i wont use? What i have enjoyed in world is the diversity of the game, the freedom it has given its players to create a world away from their r/l world ..... a place to meet others in a fun environment to chill out or build your heart away. You can shop or shake ur booty or just hang out with friends listening to jazz. When i signed up for SL i was told that in return for my monthly fee i would be able to enjoy these things along with a wkly stipend of such/said amount . Now they tell me that they have decided that i should receive less than such/said amount for the same fee with more down time. Ppfffttt. Sounds like another place i used to frequent that i dont anymore. Instead of messing with the players they should focus on clearing up some of the lagg and keeping the servers from crashing every 1/2 hour. That would really make my in world experience more rewarding.

Last time I checked, typing was free of charge.

What bothers me the most about the "poor get poorer while the rich get richer" line of reasoning is that basic accounts cost LL money, and quite a lot of it I imagine. A one time fee of $9.95 doesn't come anywhere close to covering the bandwidth they consume. Who do they think pays for their ability to log in forever for that low price? The answer is everyone who pays a monthly fee to LL. Basic account holders complaining about the rich in SL are quite literaly biting the hand that feeds them.

the misguided assumption here is that content creation in the form of events is not content that should be supported. I do have rl employable skills, but even still, the governments of two countries have supported me in the for profit and not for profit jobs i have held (the former through corporate welfare and the latter through arts and education funding). This oversimplification that events hosts and contest entrants are whiners is nonesense. Particularly in the case of events hosts who have been dumped with no bridging program into a land where no system exists to compensate them for the value they add to the community. (makers of objects at least have vendor packages. we got nada!) Until such a system exists, events hosts must whore themselves out to business or beg for $$ from their event attendees. How will that make the social aspect of SL look? pretty bleak. I didn't come here to learn how to make computer animations or spend hours learning to make a lampshade talk. I came here to be in a diverse Adult community where I could roleplay in a heightened environment. Cheers again Morse.

I don't think that at all Persephone (I know you weren't adressing that at me). I think it absolutely needs to be supported since it's a vital service being provided to the communtiy. But it should be supported in the same way that every other kind of content creation is supported... by the players, not by LL.

Wasn't I kidding Jauani?

I'm not going to even rate YOU!

BB

This is an interesting response, Persephone. I love your quip about making the lampshade talk LOL. I tend to agree that content creation should include event-organization. I suppose the inner feted elite have so long perpetuated the myth that all events are sexay avatar spitting money ball events of low quality that they aren't prepared to distinguish any more or to grant that content creation is content creation, whether or not you "like" the content. They are willing to concede an endless tyranny of subjectivity about "I get to do what I want on my land and fuck you" but they don't want to grant that endless subjectivity to content creation -- unless it's their own, hahaha.

I am stumped as to how to solve this problem. If the Lindens don't play the role of a kind of national arts council or event subsidizer, then *shudders* we'd have to have player government and *shudders* taxation of the kind that Ulrika is always ranting about. That would be traditional way to skim of some income to have available for the public interest, such as events. Then the public might want to say whether they really want all that money going to sexay av contests.

What I hope we can do is have businesses subsidize events, although of course the inner feted will be wincing and screaming about commercialization.

The fact is, the Lindens made a kind of fun game within a game -- ratings and event stipends and dwell -- that a lot of people wanted to come and play, but because the Lindens' own geeky internal culture prevented them from having anything but an attitude of scorn or humor about the*culture* such an internal ratings/dwell game would generate, they don't want to continue to organize this very fun (for many people) game that they created. They yammer on about the metaverse. And you're saying like Nolan metaverse, schmetaverse, we want our ratings/event stipends/dwell game and geeky culture be damned. In fact, every time a poster sniffs about somebody "gaming the system" what they REALLY mean is that a lot of people had a really great time playing that fun game-within-a-game called ratings/dwell.

I guess that about sums it up. The Lindens made a game within a game, but couldn't live with the cultural result, it ran against the grain of their own culture and aspirations to be a geek-run metaverse with XYZ grids and physics formulas and script commands flying everywhere. It's a shame, because they had a cash cow there for awhile.

Imagine that LL, in a flash of inspiration, suddenly came up with a radical new idea: sponsor objects!

Now, how would this work? Everytime you build a new object, you'd fill a form (where you'd put your Object UUID and a picture of it), and LL would kindly buy you, say, 10 copies of it, just to subsidize your work. This would be a way to promote the creation of new, innovative content in Second Life and...

.... bzzzzt ... reality check.

Ok, of course, this doesn't work, does it? After a few days, people would be rezzing prim cubes, and applying for Linden support.

So we can clearly see how subsidizing object creation is a Bad Thing.

However, we'll have been living with subsidizing events (or, rather, contests) for so long, that the absence of subsidies feels "wrong". After all, people should be making money from hosting events. Right?

So, will this mean that we won't have more Sexy Avatar contests?

As someone pointed out, several contests involving raffles or residents pooling L$ towards a prize will be unaffected. So the only ones really affected will be the contentless contests - ie. the ones without any real value. Actually, the ones that have so low value, that the only reason they existed was because LL was subsidizing them...

Well. The New World Order is upon us now, and this means - capitalism. Only the really good event hosters will be able to survive. They will be the ones that will either make their attendants pay for the event, or that will have a sponsorship by another resident. I imagine that this will mean that lots of amateur event hosters will simply disappear. So, no more Sexy Avatar contests. But on the other hand, the surviving event hosters will be the ones who put up high-quality events, the ones that people are willing to pay for.

Now, I have some trouble with the notion of "poor people with no talent"...

In my personal experience, there are no "people without talent". We all are worthy, we all have our own set of skills. Almost all of SL's population works in RL as well, and if they work, it means they have a set of skills that someone is willing to pay to employ them.

The only trick is to get your RL skills and employ them in SL as well.

I have used this argument uncountable times (in-world, not in the forums). Sometimes I get answers like: "oh, but I'm a nurse in RL, how can my skills be used in SL?". Well, nurses are good comforting people! Use that to run events and have people donate to you! There are lots and lots of people in SL that need comforting.

Is that horrible? Charging money for comforting? I don't think so. In RL, nurses and doctors are paid to do exactly that!

The real hard part is trying to figure out what skills you have in RL that you can apply to SL. Sure, I agree that a RL architect or 3D modeller or computer programmer have advantages - their skills relate directly to SL. With other types of jobs, you have to be much more creative. As an example, the way I earned more money in SL was by... writing documentation and giving technical support to an object! Second place in my top list of money-making was to do some market research in SL. And only after that come my own sales in SL Exchange (by far the only "shop" where I ever managed to sell my products for a profit...). Yes, as you may imagine, in RL I write documentation, I did technical support, I still do consulting, and support marketing teams with data. All of these are my RL skills, and I find them useful in SL as well. Of course, a lousy marketing consultant in SL is not a "fashionable job" like being a top builder, top scripter or a glamourous top clothier. But who cares, if people are willing to buy my services? That's what counts, isn't it?

Some residents have approached me telling that their only skills are in publishing or writing. So they're now setting up SL magazines and newspapers. What's wrong with that? Another guy is thinking about a marketing agency in SL. Others are doing banking or offering legal advice and acting as mediators between SL residents. All these odd types are really using their RL skills to earn money in SL. Sure, they aren't as good as Anshe Chung in promoting themselves - and that's why they're not as rich or famous. Sure, they're not as glamorous as Chip Midnight. Sure, they will never rival Misty Rhodes in the leader boards. But does that mean that they have to stay "poor with no talent?"

NO!

The trick is - find a niche where you can employ your RL skills. Stick to it. Work it to your own advantage! I think there is an American saying that goes somewhat like this: "It doesn't matter if you're just a trash man - be the BEST one, and you'll be a millionaire!" No matter what your skills are, if you're the best in your area, you'll earn enough money!

So, unlike others, I won't say "get a job", but really "employ your RL skills fully in SL". Ignore the designers, architects and programmers who seem to have a much easier life (they also have lots of competition!!). You have your own skills. Let's make some money with those!

Yes, I understand that there are a few - a very few - people here that really don't have any talent "at all", not even in RL. In RL, they unfortunately live from welfare, since they haven't really found jobs due to their lack of skills, and it's not a question of education or opportunity - they really are "outside the world" in terms of having any sort of ability to work in our society. Fortunately, these are extreme exceptions, and I don't think that there are so many around (I met a few...). For those, yes, I can understand that it will be very hard to enjoy SL without a source of income beyond a weekly stipend. But for the rest of us who have jobs in RL...? I don't think so.

SL residents are "above average" people in RL. We're very creative. I'm quite sure we'll find a way to make money in SL!

people continue with the fallacy that only 3dimensional work is content. Experiences and services are content too. I would appreciate not being referred to as a poor uncreative person. In fact I have a bfa and mfa in arts, arts admin being my masters, and saw in real life settings what happens when public subsidies for arts and culture are cut. If this is to be a game all about making and selling, why not call it not secondlife, but second business?

fine! i will come to your rating party! will there be a money ball?

what's a money ball anyway? i've never even seen what a linden looks like.

In your argument there are a few areas in which I'd like to bring clarity: that only sexy avatar contests will be affected, that content is created only by builders, and that events makers are now on a level playing field with builders. One is that the only cultural events impacted will be the sexy avatar contests. In fact, all events that were not about how to build stuff or gambling will be affected, and those affected most will be the middle managers like myself. We are the people who do not own clubs, but who help club managers and others by doing the legwork and paperwork to host events. We advertise the event, send out a battery of IMS to remind people of the event, answer questions about the event, set up the space to prepare for the event, coordinate with other hosts and managers if necessary to ensure that there is no detrimental conflict between events, and then we do the work of actually hosting the event, and pumping people full of good will after so that they come back to the next one. It is a job that takes skill to be good at. It is not that I am skillless; in fact I have many many skills. The fact is that there is no clear way to pay for what I do now in the future unless I utterly and completely give in to either beg for money each time I host, or engage in gambling. I do not buy lotto tickets in rl as these are ways for governments to download costs of running stuff onto the most marginalized populations. These rl world trends (including an unstoppable and alarming trend toward the stratification of wealth) are now more evidently happening in second life as well.

ONE MAJOR difficulty here is that no bridging program was made toward a huge paradigm shift which is to say from a society in which arts and culture are given enough value to deserve public support to a society in which these things are given no public support. Those building things DO get subsidy as they get a free education from the lindens (who will happily pay people to teach you how to better apply your craft.) You also have the support of other builders who will happily show you the ropes or sell or even GIVE you a vendor's package. (more subsidy for builders and more importantly, a great way for builders to figure out how to get from point A to point B). Perhaps the reason sexy avatar contests stick in peoples minds so much is that events hosts were not as creative as they could be sometimes, but to be honest, lots of what is built is not as creative as it could be either. Nonetheless, EVERY DAY I am in sl, I stumble over some beautifully built object and I frequently will rate (even at $25 a pop) the maker of these things (i think yesterday I did that for a particularly beautiful hummingbird garden) so it isn't that i don't like builders. I appreciate them very much. But there are events out there other than sexy avatar contests. When I first got here one of the reasons I stayed were the poetry events (I had hosted a poet's open mic in TSO and thought to myself Hey! what I do has some merit here! mind you in TSO i made $1000 + a day for having a top property so the pay for having events was much much higher there (and I wasn't making pizzas or whatnot, I was providing content! just not the kind you can unpack later except in screenshot form)). For now and until the end of february in fact, my events will continue because of four event attendees who offered stipend support. Nonetheless it means a huge shift in thinking because people who go to events will be required to support them and not be supported by them. This means that people will need to see them as important in a very tangible way. Because of this, I am not venturing off to do my more experimental ideas for sl events (such as spoken word jam hosting) but will stick to what sells: the sizzlin sceners competitions. If private individuals sponsor arts, culture, and sports they will continue to exist in SL. IF not, your work is your entertainment folks. enjoy. We can change the name of the game from second life to second job. I suppose while you are jobbing here in second job you may also chat with other jobbers. hey! kinda reminiscent of the excruciating, endless skilling and jobbing in TSO isn't it?

Now let's get to value... at the end of your days in SL (assuming that your job competition was not your chief reason of being here) will you remember most what it was like to buy that nifty toy? or that gorgeous outfit? or will you go through your photo album and pull out a whole lot of good times that you see there? for me it will be the latter, and many of these good times happened at other people's events. If you have screenshots of yourself at any event or at any club, you have actual physical evidence of the content created by them. And if so, you may want to check with your favourite club or events host and see how you can contribute to making the next one happen. Thanks for the memories, events hosts.