Who was it hurting?

Corey I never called you a Peon, nor would I. Please don't get me wrong I am right there with you saying that the change is inaccurate in its effect.

When I say Pittance I sell 1 skin for a considerable amount of money and that is devided 3 ways because I have to pay my partners and I have a business manager that seeks out and finds suitable places to place our wears thus he recieves a cut of everything I sell. Primarly because his income is what pays for the rent on the stalls. So the actual income I recieve from 1 skin covers my Stipend and Stip Delta. so if I sell 2 skins in 1 week I have double that amount thus my stipend ...not yours is Pittance compaired to what I earn for my graphics work. ((Subnote: I dont have many rates because Im not a socialite I am more so a hermit that loves creatng stuff))

The only thing I was pointing out was the aspect on the Wipe everyones accounts of thier funds to make it fair was actually unfair.

To many factors are involved in that aspect as you have people like me that make money above and beyond the stipend and you have people that go to GOM or IGE and buy it. Either way the wiping of those accounts in all essence would be construed as thieft and not petty thieft either.

As I have pointed out in Many threads to include this one the change will only slow the economy and yes there was an overage influx of cash comming in the system due to the ratings aspect.

Many People gamed the Ratings for what it was worth and were getting huge ratings bonuses. When someone states because they have so many rates they are making 3k aweek or more due to their ratings Stipend Delta that is an unfair system. Especially when I have yet to see one thing those individuals have created other than a Party at Joe's event that was supported by LL.

I really don't blame the individuals but I do blame the methodology of how it was initially implimented. You cant arbitrarly blame people for taking advantage of what was available to them to earn what they deemed nessasary. Yet at the same time there does need to be a resolution to the issue and a reform to the Stip Delta or Stip Ratings Bonus which ever one its called.

So closing this it is in my opinion this change was actually not enough to fix the problem but more of a stop gap till and acceptable solution is hammered out.

Shadow

I know hun thats why I asked someone meaning anyone to explain that ...basically as a rhetorical that I knew couldnt be answered..

Plus as of today I am Officially in the 2year Elite Ancients Club..hehe..

I was in the welcome area for a while last night. Someone came in and asked who supported the changes LL had made, and when I stated “I do”, was told that “everyone who does should be neg rated.” Nice attitude, that I should be rated negatively for holding a different opinion. This, of course, started a bunch of angry comments directed toward me from others. I was attacked for being a clothing designer. For doing what I enjoy in SL. The people who made the comments know nothing about me, they just assumed that I must have a huge bank account and do nothing to give back to the community.

I have worked hard to start and maintain my SL “business”, but I am not so arrogant as to say that everyone in SL should “get a job”. Your second life should be what you make of it – if you don’t want a job, don’t get one, but don’t expect to be able to pay for what others work hard to create. I just don’t understand this sense of entitlement that so many seem to have.

I also don’t understand how cutting the bonus affects people’s ability to enjoy SL. If you’re not in SL to run a business, and you’re just here to socialize, then why is money of such concern to you? There are many people, myself included, who provide free content for newbies or those without huge bank accounts.

If you DO want the ability to purchase things that other people have created and are selling, then yes, I think you should find a way to pay for them, whether it be a job or purchasing $L. People put a lot of time and energy in to their creations, and if they want to sell their items and be compensated, I don’t see why that is a bad thing. That’s the way THEY enjoy their second life.

So maybe you should start using the rating system properly, instead of triple-positive rating everyone in the club just so you get yours back?

Do you know how annoying it is to see a trial account "just off the boat" that has 5 times the amount of build rates as I do?

Of course not, because you see the rating system as some sort of free money machine, instead of a social modifier and predictor.



Good. It's called deflationary measures. LLabs has said recently that there was a slight increase in inflation, and as such, they are taking measures into their own hands by cutting stipends.

The rating system change is to keep folks from GAMING THE SYSTEM.



Ever hear of a full time job? and a full workload of classes? And college loan fees? And rising tuition costs?

But you don't care, so what's it matter.

My books for 9 credit hours were over $us250. That's insane. Any time I can use monopoly money to pay for my insane college costs, I will.



Yep. I imagine you have other hobbies. How much a month do you spend on them? I mean, why? It's just retarded. ITS JUST A HOBBY!!!!!111oneoneeleven



Exactly. I find building houses for people "fun". The fact that I get compensated for it is a nice side effect that I use to pay for college.

Why is this a bad thing?

And by the way, you can stop playing the "I'm so uncreative" card. Creativity is LEARNED, it is a skill. You can learn it. It's not a gift bestowed upon you by the gods or the Muses.

Take a few creativity courses at your community college, enrich your life.

LF

I have tried and tried to make decent things to sell so I can have a steady income. I'm NOT hoping to get rich, I simply would like to make enough to buy things I like. In SL I enjoy the freedom to shop. This freedom is now taken from me as I won't be able to afford stuff now. Once the money I have is gone it will take forever to get the money to buy what I want. Do you think this equates to fun for me?? Waiting weeks on end to build up money to buy a nice outfit?? It's very hard to get someone willing to sit in game and explain things for Photo Shop and Poser. Understandably so. They are sickenly complicated programs. Also if I manage to make outstanding work it would be nothing more then competition for the current sellers. I do not want a 'job' in SL. This 'job' as with the rest of the game is pretend. I get my pay on Tuesday from LL. I treat this as my pay check. This pay check was made bigger by me receiving ratings. Now these ratings will not come because they are stupidly prioced to give. This income was not replaced by other means. Fix your rating system fine, but replace the income people received from it!

Lordfly ....ok breath...in .....breath out...

You cant just pummel them with sticks cause it will only cause knots on their heads and they still wont learn anything cept the damn stick hurts the head and makes a sore bump.....hehe

But I am right there with you Lordfly, btw where is my US$50 as I won that other bet we made 4 months ago..

PM me and I will tell you what I mean....

Shadow

That was Philip's number $37, that was the average decrease in bonus $L. So no, it is not crap.

The maximun it could effect you is $375L, if under the previous system you where making $750.

We are still getting FREE money for doing absolutely NOTHING. I do not understand why you are complaining. We get paid $L, which have RL value, for doing nothing at all. You are looking a gift horse in the mouth.

Practice makes perfect. Honestly. My skills are getting better all the time. I look at builds I did 6 months ago and shudder. Did I REALLY make that? Guh.



Events will still give out prizes. You still get a slightly smaller check from LLabs. There are plenty of free things around the world to use/see/get.



The entire point of the rating system is to reward you based on certain criteria. I'm not trying to be an ass, but do you really deserve those +xxx marks for building? (I'm at school now, can't log in to see) Why? If you're not building anything, why do you want to rely on the +xxx ratings you got FOR building as a bonus to your check every week?

Everyone in SL has gamed the ratings system. This is a first step in stopping the insane corruption that this rating system has done to SL.

LF

And it is dead see here /120/62/32581/2.html#post342942

To Mr. Digeridoo. If you can't afford your college and have to use a game to pay for it my only suggestion would be to take less so you can afford. You're arguing that my game fun should be destroyed so you can pay for your college. Get a grip! This change in our pay was made just for you! Enjoy it you whined enough to make LL do it for you so you can sell Linden money for more. A GAME should NOT be thought of as an income sourse, but a FUN source.

Corey,
You are not listening to logic. Your welfare has been cut, deal with it.

Holy crap.

Any student now, if they don't have scholarships, CANNOT AFFORD COLLEGE AS IT IS. I know people that have had jobs for ten years now STILL paying off their student loans. And what's what I'll be doing. That's what your friends are doing. That's what you'd be doing... but judging by the angry tone you're developing, I'd imagine you didn't deem college as important.

As it stands, The lindens' decision to revamp the stipends had nothing to do with income potential and EVERYTHING to do with a stable economy, mostly for YOUR benefit. That's right, YOU. The one that SPENDS MONEY.

You're looking at this from a short-sighted point of view.

Sure, you're not getting the extra $400 a week. But neither is anyone else. If they DID, your shopping excursions would get more and more expensive as more money was putinto the system, thus lowering the perceived "value" of the linden dollar. So, your $L400 a week buys you less and less, until finally your massive stipend still doesn't pay for anything, because now an outfit costs $20,000 lindens instead of $L200.

GEt a grip, indeed.

LF

You sir are the one that is not listening to logic. This is a game! A game where if you have no money is not fun! Now to suit those that use this GAME as an income sourse I now get less game money. "My welfare has been cut, deal with it." This is the attitude of LL. Screw my fun so those that use this game for income can make more money. Yea that's the ticket. Fix you're rating ststem FINE I could care less about it anyway. I make my judements of people in the way they act twords me NOT by some #'s on their profile anyway. But replace the lost income in a nother way so I can still buy the nice outfit I see on a whim!

(edited)

To YOU it is not fun. There are plenty of broke people running around having a ball.

LLabs wants to cater to everyone, not just you.



Events, creation, GOM, IGE, Anshe chung, event hosting, money trees, casinos, bingo...

LF

As a matter of fact I am repaying student loans! And you know what I am also presently investing for my son to attend college. He is 5 now. Yes I am angry now because you are saying over and over 'screw her fun in game so I can make more money on GOM'! And you obviously don't grasp the very basics of economics. The economy in SL WAS stable! The prices of things have reached what the common uncreative or unable to figure out Poser/PS person could spend! The prices will NOT skyrocket as people would simply stop buying and they would skyrocket back down in a hurry when nothing sold!

Corey,

Ok, taking out all of the arguments for SL supporting school, rent, crack habits, etc.., looking at it just purely from a game standpoint, from a game economy....if this action is not taken, the prices you pay for items will go up. Prices have not remained stable - they don't rise dramatically, but across the board they have risen, especially for popular items like skins, shoes, hair and clothing. Would you prefer that happened, where you keep getting this imaginary $2000k a week, but then it takes 10 weeks to afford a shirt? The economy has to be controlled by certain policies to keep it healthy and from spiking too high or dropping too low. No one wants you or anyone else to have less money to enjoy SL, however, you also have to look beyond your own selfish needs and understand why it is being done.

I fully understand this Corey and I do see your flustration thats why I say this "Fix" is not enough. The ratings system was way out of control reaching hyper inflation. I know its a tough pill to swallow right now but this one to be honest shouldnt be swallowed at all as its still not enough.

What does this change create...Nothing really other than a slower influx of cash.

High Raters will still have Higher Stip Bonuses
Low Raters will still have lower Stip Bonuses

Basically Ratings are busted I have offered several solutions in the past to accomodate removing the tie of Ratings to personal Earnings.

One system was one based on effort of an individual to spend time in the world giving them daily points that equated to their weekly stipend. Yes it means that a person that is here every day would be rewarded for thier efforts but thats the point it would be their efforts not mine.

Another was a Longevity Bonus based on how long an account had been active but that outline had too many holes in it.

With hearing those two possible solutions what other things could be done that is Fair to All and doesnt allow for gaming and taking advantage of a system.

Should it be based on Land ownership? that would defeat the point with 1 time lifer accounts. So many factors to look at but the thing is you need to tear each one down to see who it's going to affect.

My actual favorite one was taking an average of everyones Stip Delta reduce it by 30% and set that in as a locked rate. Thus if 5 people get 600 and 10 get 200 then the average across the board would be 334 meaning there would be losses from the rate minors and gains by the lower rated people. This alone would be an infusion to the economy to spend and build.

But again not many listen to my ramblings so I digress.

Shadow

I might be one of the few ppl who make things and sell them who is somewhat pro-stipend (within reason). And perhaps it's because I don't GOM anything, i pump it all back into SL by buying land and content stuff. If it's an effort to make money in SL, I'm afraid people will drop off. I realize the cut to the bonus might not represent a huge amount of lindens. I just hope this isn't a trend which will lead to no stipends whatsoever. I would miss seeing all the little green dots in world that we have now.

If you depend on the lindens you make for RL, then you are most probably pro-reduced stipends. If you don't, you're either indifferent, or against it because it reduces your game fun factor. You can do alot of other fun things in SL, but shopping is right up there on my list of funess.

Now you get it. That is exactly the point.
If you want that income replaced, go replace it.

The value of the $L was always intended to have RL value, read the white papers.

And your point?

Mr. Midnight prices were NOT going up! And if they were they would come back into check soon enough as less people would buy expensive things. I remember a couple months ago a guy was selling prim shoes for 500 a pair. I and apparently not many others bought from him as a few weeks later I visited his place and his shoes were NOT that much anymore. Once people thought things were to expensive they would stop buying forcing the prices to go back down. It's a natural thing. Taking my money only to let those that want to make more real money on GOM is horsecrap! Mr. Midnight you seem like a very nice person. I am not angry at you I am simply trying to make you see my point. I am frusterated that those few that make a living from GOM were able to ruin it for the rest of us. There is a FIXED amount we can get from rating bonuses. Inflation can ONLY go to that amount before it is forced back down. If you could get unlimited high bonuses it would be different!

Prices adjust with inflation weather your pay increases or decreases. Agreed. It's no different than buying Stocks, if they don't get the bid to go higher, then someone starts a bid to go lower, if they get the lower price, the price goes down until it is adjusted for value balance to what people will pay.

1. It is NOT a game. Tho it has game like elements.

2. I have had a lot of fun in this 'game' without having to use money.

3. When do you graduate from High School?

I do see your point, and I am not unsympathetic to it. However, I also see the economic data, and understand the reasoning behind it. One vendor selling overpriced, crappy shoes is not an indicator of market health. The prim shoe market became fiercely competitive, and the quality went up dramatically (that Asri Falcone is an artiste). Even without rising prices, falling value of the L$ equates to the same thing - if your money is worth less, prices will rise, since people do create content for the purpose of paying for tier fees and for enjoying SL in the manner in which they choose. It all has to balance out. Is the current method perfect? Maybe not - but I do not think the situation is as bleak as it is being made out to be, and I definitely think the benefits will outweight the short term discomfort for some players.

Honestly, if a player comes to me and says they love my work but cannot afford it (at $50 ), I often times just give it to them. Many vendors are very generous in giving out items, donating prizes for contests, raffles and charity, and in helping new players. There is no shame is selling on GOM or IGE, or buying from them. Yet no one has to buy from those places to enjoy SL. If you cannot enjoy SL on the level you want to without buying currency, then perhaps look for other ways to augment your income in SL. It does not kill anyone to have to become more resourceful.