What about the D/s Community?

Maybe it's just me, but I've always seen the "public" aspects of D/s play as more a specific fetish... that is, exhibitionism. Though by no means is it uncommon, I do know D/s people, both online and IRL, who aren't particularly into exhibiting their behavior, and consider such things very private for them. Now they participate in the community... engage in discussions, show up to functions, etc, but their personal scene play and such things are kept to their private time.

Of course, that's not me. But I'm something of an exhibitionist.

I think people react so strongly, and remember so much the "bad" D/s experiences they encounter because you're talking about something that is already outside the norm of many people's lives. I mean, to me, someone who's an abusive Dom to their sub and someone who's just an abusive jerk to their spouse really look pretty much the same. But for someone who sees D/s as something strange and unusual to begin with, those bad experiences would stand out, I would think.

But, if you're lucky, those *good* D/s experiences will also stand out.

--Carolyn
(Kinky Auntie)

I first learned of it as an actual lifestyle (as opposed to the Penthouse leather-clad Dominatrix cliche, not that I would ever buy such a magazine, of course of course) on the online community. Took what I learned, use what's helpful and feels right to me, discarded the baloney that doesn't, and practice my own version RL. Yes, the relationship online can be very strong and true. It has been incredible for me and I continue it, it is fulfilling both for me and those I play with, providing the companionship and some fantasies that we maybe are not do-able RL for a variety of reasons. Online is definitely a different color horse than RL I do know some that have met this way, mostly though and in my situation it is an escape from the realities of life with like-minded people.

I'm not heavily involved with the SL community (yet, anyway) being still a newbie to this game but from what I've seen so far, I'm looking forward to getting to know more people. I came from TSO and lost some interest there largely because of the bizarre and negative changes in the lifestyle there...many judgmental, narrow-minded people who I think were so mostly bored with the game platform that they needed some drama to occupy their time. One of the basic elements of foundation of this lifestyle is a stress on individuality, emphasis on doing things your own way...not cardboard cutout of everyone else. In TSO I was becoming pretty convinced it was just two people playing 90% of the Dominants and subs I was constantly amazed by the number of people who spent most of their time making calls on how everyone else was behaving...where is this Rule Book I heard so much about?

In SL what I have noticed and am encouraged by is the awareness of that. I have not seen the petty bickering or the Stepford cloning. I'm sure it's out there, but it's my opinion the SL world is big enough and interesting enough that it seems to discourage that kind of baloney. I hope that continues I applaud anyone in here who has the character to avoid telling anyone else what they should and should not be doing. If we ever think we need a Dom King, it's a sad sad day lol

As far as public perception, it is just my opinion that the intimacy and the heavy aspects are not appropriate in a public and vanilla setting any more than it would be appropriate for a vanilla couple to waltz onto a D/s lot and start "vanillatizing" the heck out of the nearest sofa. (That's my own word, created especially for here and now lol)

I also despise the Y/you W/we U/us and it shalt never be uttered out of me avie lips

As far as Mz Flamer Charlotte....you might be more entertained in TSO, sounds like your kind of place darlin

I don't know about the D/s community itself, but I think Sex is becoming rather too much a part of second life. The more sex crops up in events and the forums, and everywhere, the more it crowds everything else out. When I first came to SL, if I had to call it a state, I'd call it California, fresh, innovative and new. Now if I had to call it a state I'd call Nevada, kind of sleazy, very sex and gamble oriented, money flowing around every place... I don't know, I just think it needs a good scrub down. I'd like to move next door to California Secondlife.

As the pet whose name has been mentioned several times I finally think I've got something to say.

To answer Kyrah's original questions, more or less, I started actively exploring D/s in SL, within hours of entering it. That wasn't because I jumped into SL thinking it was somewhere to explore every kink, actually I think I thought of it (wrong) as another MMORPG. I found BDSM quickly (on the events menu I think as soon as I clicked show mature), and having been interested but more or less unable or on the rare occasions I might have been able, unwilling to explore it IRL.

I'm in a committed relationship within SL, it works very well for both of us, as my Lady has already said. RL has issues like jobs, the Atlantic Ocean etc. between us.

For me SL provided opportunity to learn something about something that had always interested me, an opportunity I've grabbed with both hands. I've been involved in the discussions that have already been mentioned and learnt lots that way too, and I still do. That might help explain why there seems to be so much of it around at the moment, it does give you a chance to look and see.

I'm an exhibitionist, and so I'm not humiliated by being 'displayed' although there are times and places for that. I can get turned on by being made self-conscious and even embarrassed though. It is a really fine line to walk, and one that fortunately for me my Lady walks really well. Humiliation is, for me anyway, about breaking and belitting someone. That does nothing for me. Breaking someone like that seems like verging on the abusive. But things that do arouse me have been referred to as 'humiliating me' by others. Like I said it is a really fine line to walk, and I am sure it is really different for different people. But surely one of the things BDSM in an established relationship does is let you do is explore those things that might be risky with a whole variety of safety nets in place?

Well, SL is what you make of it...this is what the PG sims are for; if you want to avoid such content, you can. I can see how one can perceive of SL as a 3-D Virtual Red Light District. For my part, I don't subscribe to that view of this world. There's nothing wrong with sex, and there's still plenty of other things to do here.

Oh, and speaking as one of Carolyn's aforementioned vanilla friends (although she'd probably say I'm vanilla with nuts mixed in ), I've found out a lot about D/s that I never knew, and lost a lot of my misconceptions of the lifestyle. There are a great deal of good and friendly people on SL, with every flavor of difference (D/s being just one of those flavors). I think they *far* outnumber any bad apples, even if the bad apples are overly loud at times.

You mention there are PG sims around but that's almost totally irrelevant. When I said that sex was becoming an ever more large part of SL I meant that if I'm wandering around and i see someone and I check their profile, I see stuff like "Oh I love this person my master, i'm collared " etc... I know you guys like it but I'm kind of not interested in that. And more and more people have that on their profiles.

Then there's the sheer amount of sex themed events. They're everywhere. Then there's the amount of new genitals and uh, genital accessories that go on sale, and then there's the clubs, which are all just brothels these days largely. And finally sadly, I come to these forums to keep a link with the SL community while I'm out of it, but quite a bit of sex stuff keeps popping into the newest post list too.

Yeah, there are a whole bunch of Pg sims knocking about, but the pace of second life seems to be a lot about sex, gambling, prostitution and using people as sex slaves, which just turns me right off cause a bit of sexy stuff is alright in moderation, but too much just turns me right off.

It seems if I just come on the forums every so often, wander round the SL world and go to the odd event, I will be flooded with so much porn, gambling and filth I'll regret logging on. I don't like all this sex - sex - sex - sex - sex but I think MY problem is not that SL is sleazy, but that I am not sleazy and SL is leaving me behind as it goes downhill.

--- Edit ---

I know from reading my post I will get defensive replies, so i should probably clear up a few points:

* I'm not annoyed this post on D/s stuff is here, it just triggered stuff inside me that has been building up over time, so I spoke my mind. This one post is not particularly bad or anything

* I'm not against D/s preference, although i'm not into it. But you can't deny it's a sexual thiing in a big way, dungeons for torturining people in sexy poses, it's a blood relative of sex...

* I have to admit I don't in principle 'disagree' with SL becoming more sleazy, i think SL should be exactly what the people of SL want it to be...

i'm just missing good times long gone when I used to hang out wth my friends on my plot of land, and we used to trade stories on building projects we were doing, and events were fun and varied and not all about winning money (Really how many variations of Bingo, Lottery or opening another shop can you have?). I would give some hundreds of US dollars, like maybe 700 or 800 to roll myself back to those happy days, but it's not my world to roll back. I can't help but be sad, but it's not my world. Sorry if this seemed like an attak on anyone. I just felt like I wanted to say my piece, but I should probably have just said nothing and let life roll on by.

Its' funny....But regardless of my hoochie hair and my usual flirty nature...My SL consists mainly of exactly what you're talking about: Hanging out with friends, talking about stuff we've built or are building, and generally just enjoying each other's company. I don't go to that many events...I agree that they all start to sound the same after awhile. But I still manage to have fun...regardless of whatever level of sexuality is involved. Usually it's minimal, if at all.

This is getting a bit off the topic, but I really don't think the sexual natures of players needs to bother you, just MHO. Just because a person lists D/s as a preference in their profile doesn't mean everything they do on SL is somehow sexually charged. It's possible to be an outwardly sexual being without obsessing over sexuality.

There's a difference between *being* sleazy and *seeming* sleazy. If you're being sleazy, only you can change that. If you're seeming sleazy, only the viewer can change that.

And it may quite possibly point to positive character traits as well, such as a reinforced sense of honor and loyalty.

I understand what you mean, J... but consider: doesn't this all remind you a lot of the web, say around 1997-99? Once the web was no longer strictly toy for geeks, and the general public started web surfing in a big way -- didn't online pr0n explode onto the scene, just as sexual content has done in SL?

But look at the web today. While online pr0n is still a thriving business, the web is more about blogging and politics and music and popular culture nowadays. It's not so much that the sexual part of the web diminished, as that the rest of the web caught up with it, and the sexual content has been placed in perspective.

It's a phase, and SL (or whatever technology replaces it, which might or might not come from Linden Lab) will grow beyond it, just as the web has grown beyond it. (And, incidentally, just as Las Vegas is trying to grow beyond it, with more family-friendly venues and entertainment.)

That really is quite a vision for the future I hope you're right

As for people above who say it is not sleazy to have D/s stuff in your profile, I agree, and it wasn't my intention to say that... I was just noting how seeing it on people's profiles is a tiny thing dragging my thoughts back to the world of sex games and stuff, and the fact stuff about being a 'slave' or whatever is cropping up on more and more profiles doesn't help me to just come into SL and be about something other than sex for a while. No one person is bombarding me with tons of sex stuff, but I do feel overwhelmed sometimes by a lot of individual things that have sex references, that are particularly present in SL at the moment.

-No, have been curious a long time, played a bit with it in rl relations, but only recently after a short absense from sl decided to get actively involved.
-Not that I know of
-So far I can say it can be, yes. Although not having rl experience sofar, I can see the limitations of a virtual world, but providing both parties are serious in their persuit of this lifestyle online, those limitations can be overcome I think.
-Wouldn't know, haven't encountered them sofar.

Have lots of dreams about it And those dreams get more specific the more I learn of D/s in sl. One thing I have found is that this lifestyle really suits me.

I think you may be right, Tinker... though as with the web as a whole, I suspect sex will continue to play a major role in SL forever... I think there is sort of a 'fad' for it right now.

I know for me... much as with the internet, the erotic outlets on SL were rather new and exciting when I first started. But over time, they become more normal to me... and though I still play on SL, it's mostly just with Eloise. I don't tend to go to erotic events and such... I mean, sometimes, but not with the lustful fervor of the early days.

It's just grownups playing... and grownups often have dirty minds when they start something. Like looking up naughty words in the dictionary. Eventually, you start noticing other words too.

Though that's not to say I don't still like the naughty words.

--Carolyn
(Auntie of Lustful Fervor?)

Hahahah!

Whats going on here? Of all the possibly devisive topics... A rational discussion finally seems to break out on the forums with very few flame and troll interjections ands its about D/S subculture! WOW!!!! That is hilarious!!!

All that is required for a rational discussion is a little bit of... discipline

I have been in the BDSM lifestyle (and yes, that includes Dominance and submission) rl for about 11 years. I am a switch and so have experience on both the top and bottom so to speak ; )

I have never seriously engaged in any online play, and for the most part am very surprised by some of ideas and perceptions online players have about all aspects of BDSM, but since there is no "right" way of doing it, and as long as things are safe, sane, and consentual, I see no problem in it.

I think online play is a good outlet for people who have no resources, or who (whatever the circumstance may be) can't engage in rl play.

I do think that submissives, rl or online need to exercize caution and intellegence. There are alot of predators and weirdos out there who have no clue of SSC and can hurt you, mentally as well as physically. The best thing for an online newb to do is find a group (like Perilous Pleasures) that has rules, and information so that you can play safely. If you want to seek out rl resources try to find an active group in your area (you can do this with a google search, or try www.frugaldomme.com She has links to different organizations around the country). Once you find a group, go to a munch, this is a safe, meet and greet gathering in a public place (usually a restaraunt) and they are usually held at the very least once a month (int he BAy area there are several every week). You can get to know people, be introduced into the community, and find experienced people to learn from.

hope this is helpful, Just me humble opine : )

I'm kinda surprised there isn't a BDSM or D/s oriented group forum here on the SL forums, all things considered. There's the Perilous Pleasures one, but that seems to be geared towards events for that group.

And... LOL Arcadia!

Perhaps the answer is to remove all referances to D/s relationships from profiles if it offends some of the population...

Oh wait... we'll also have to remove referance to gay and lesbian relationships too because that offends doesn't it...

Hell why not remove referance to all relationships because that must be making all those single SL'ers feel bad right ?

Oh and when people tell you things about their RL because we don't want it "dragging my thoughts back to the world"

speaking of RL.... "doesn't help me to just come into SL and be about something other than sex for a while" yours must be really interesting...

Given the owner's intention of providing a well balanced forum for discussion of BDSM in world can I suggest you approach him (David Valentino) about using the Perlious Pleasures Seekers forum in this fashion.

I wouldn't dare put words in his mouth, but Sir David is a very reasonable man and might well agree.

Yay! Another switch! I was starting to think all the switches had died off somewhere!

--Carolyn
(Switch Auntie)

Very well put Selador. One does not exist without the other. It is safe, sane & consentual when done correctly. And all partners enjoy it. Ever fantisied about being tied down & blindfolded and then made love to by a trusted one? Feeling just a bit not in control yet able to stop or change the "scene" at any time. This is what we do, as a lovestyle. There is so much more than just sex in it tho, and it is very rewarding for those that understand it.

Tell me & I will forget, show me & I will remember, involve me & I will understand. -Aristotle ---Maybe he was a VR visionary?

There's a whole spectrum of different activities and lifestyles in BDSM. Bondage and S/M are pretty sexual for most people (though there are people who see that differently), but D/s in particular is often much more about the dynamic of a relationship than about sex per se.

I'm not involved in the SL BDSM community (my RL wife/Domme doesn't play SL, so there wouldn't be much point), so for all I know, it may be that there are people here calling a fondness for kinky av sex "D/s," but amongst knowledgeable members of the community there's a difference.

Of course, there are also plenty of people into both D/s and kinky sex, so that may be the source of the confusion. In any case, there's nothing wrong with either one, but they're different things.

I think as someone who has worked within and watched the internet world grow from its earliest commercial days, I am very much in agreement that what we are currently seeing in SL, with a lot of attention to sex and BDSM, is an important phase that SL is going through. SL has pretty much gone through the "state of the art" phase for building in general. It has also passed through very basic scripting with flying colors. We are now well into incorporating animation with scripts.

Each "state of the art" phase will tend to focus on those activities that people bring the most personal energy to. Like it or not, it is precisely because RL puts such taboos on sex and BDSM and alternate life styles in general, that those individuals who see SL as a freer venue for these activites are going to put much higher levels of energy into using animation and script developement to create means of enjoying these activities within SL, than other activities that SL is less likely to provide an enhanced version of, than what is already found in RL.

As SL provides more tools such as streaming audio/video, there will be new areas of "state of the art" developement that, as was indicated earlier, will tend to put sex and BDSM into a category of niche rather than primary focus. Its my personal opinion that you will very shortly see a lot of activity in the personal performance area of music, theater, dance, lecture, readings, etc. that will grow out of streaming audio/video as people are willing/able to make the investment in hosting sites necessary for this personal creativity to flower in SL.

There is no judgement intended in this post. It is merely a description of what I feel the process at work is.

Let me know when this actually happens.

What's the difference between Art and Pornography? A Government Grant.