New Island Project

Translated: "Just because I treat everyone like something I pulled out of my ear, doesn't mean you all have the right to exclude me!!!!"

LOL you read my mind.

If you are holding instructional events, your venue would indeed be listed. This isn't about stealing "helpless newbies" from you. This is about being helpful and understanding to new residents of our great world.

As far as daily dwell payments, they will be shared with the group (including the new residents). The notion that this is about dwell is silly, anyone who gets a DI award knows, it doesnt even pay for tier. To lay out $1000 USD and $195 per month to hope to achieve an increase in the DI award would be a foolish business plan.

This is not being done to steal dwell or attention from others currently doing this. We will provide LM's to every other instructional area in SL. This is just supposed to be a fun place for new residents to figure out the basics of SL. A place where they can figure out what direction they first want to head in their new second life.

I have made no attempts to receive any preferential treatment from LL for this. I expect no favors from LL. We have been commisioned by LL to build this world, what better place to begin than the foundation?

If you really don't want to help, don't help. If you think you can do it better, do it better.
If you want to offer advice, offer it, I will listen (provided its not 10,000 words). But why are you so full of venom towards a project geared to help new players?

Well, you know, there was a full moon last night. Not that it matters much around here, some folks lycanthropic behavior is surely triggered by the glow of their monitor, i.e., perpetual howling.

I love the contrast of Schwanson "funneling" newbies vs. Prokofy's open groups for easy accessibility. Quite amazing how similar projects can be painted so differently simply by using certain verbs. Thankfully, it's quite transparent for those who have done their homework.

I think I will go in-world now and try to garner some new thralls by paying them a tidy sum for their first land...

Did someone say "coerce"?

Actually Prokofy if you drop a note card on my inventory with a description of what you offer and a landmark I will include it (or anyone else reading this posts that has newbie offerings). I'd like to give them as many helpful places to check out as possible.

With regard to your charging them something, as long as it is in a newbie range I'll include it as well. In other words, I'm not going to list a mall that sells clothing in the range of 50 or greater Linden, but I have included Stillman, Yandi's, GNU and the Dollar Store where they can buy something for 10 or 20 Linden or less. I'll also note what is free and what they will need to pay for.

When they show up or I run into them I generally show them two things. One - how to get contents out of boxes and Two - how to use landmarks to get where they want to go. Then I give them the note card and some freebies I have to help get them going in the world.

Outside of some classes that Brianna was holding for awhile I don't have much to give them on first land information so that would be an excellent addition and good information for them.

With regard to Schwan's proposal - it hasn't happened yet, so no one can really argue whether or not the sim is really a disguise for a sinister plot where newbie slaves are auctioned off to the highest FIC buyer, without using circular reason.

Personally, I choose to offer my assistance because I'd like to see more sources available to people for gathering and learning. I also offer it because my experience with Schwan, is that he's a good person. He has treated me with respect and anytime I have been around to observe, has treated others with respect. I think that he is humorous and creative and has the capability to put together something that will not only help people but perhaps keep them in SL to create more interesting things for us all in the future.


.

It doesn't happen if you're a jerk. Maybe that explains some things.

Hey Schwan,

I've already offered my help, and that still stands. I'll offer some basic classes in texturing, creating textures, clothing design, GIMP basics, etc etc.. depending on available time.

One thing I would like to see, is a sim free of sales and vendors. Areas for landmarks to clothing shops, housing, rentals, vehicles, clubs, tringo events... would be great, and I'd like to see them bundled, without ads. Just easily readable boxes of landmarks.

Some other classes that I think would be very helpful to newbs would be:
What causes lag and how to build/texture for a more lag-free environment,
UI classes,
SL Etiquette classes (granted, this is subjective, but just the things we've all come to learn from trial error, like when to check out someone's build, and when to avoid the sky boxes, not to land in the center of an event and plow people over while we rez, etc.)
Managing land, tier and group land
Environmentally/aesthetically friendly terraforming

There's probably a lot more, but these are some suggestions.

Exactly the type of classes I had in mind.

I haven't responded IW to anybody yet, I will be doing that later this week. I'm going to call LL today or tommorow to order the sim.

Once again I would like to thank everybody for their help w/ this.

I'd be willing to help with basic classes in scripting, building, texturing, PSP use, etc. Also in things like: Lag-free design, prim conservation, SL-centric building techniques, avoiding scams, etc.

I'd also be willing to donate some time if needed to building/texturing/etc the island itself if the need comes up.

I might be able to dig up some GNU-store-ish stuff too, if you decide to go that route.

Prok, you continue to state things that you BELIEVE WILL happen, not things that HAVE happened. The fact that you use the present tense when speaking about your hypothetical projections does not make what you say the truth.



You also continue to state your assumptions as if they were actual fact:



Your cynical view of Schwanson's intentions is verging into outright slander - again, one could easily view that as a personal attack. Its a little more erudite than "You don't really want to help people, you just want to get more potential customers, and you're going to exclude people that don't suck up to you, and you're going to direct people that don't know better to only shop at your friends' places", but the intent is the same.

As I previously stated, you have directly contradicted yourself once already in this thread. Most of your points are hyperbole or assumption that is neither rooted in fact nor in any reasonable assumption based on the past actions of Schwanson.

The one actual valid point you had - that there should be no favoritism shown by LL to any player-organized noob assistance group - was buried amid the aforementioned hyperbole and assumption about Schwanson's character.

Back when Mentors were discussing this concept, I had this vision of what I would like to see.. Hehe My thoughts had included an area for what I mentioned earlier.. a kind of Help Desk (actually more like a small gathering area like a park), a Library (for landmarks, Q&A, FAQ, etc), a teaching center, an events area (yes, Tringo, Bingo, Primtionary, etc.. so they can LEARN how to play before jumping in with the big kids) and FREE vendors.

YES, I said vendors. Why? So they can learn! I will never forget my first shopping experience here. I had seen a few pictures on the web of prim hair. I had no idea how it worked. I just knew I hated the hair I was able to create from the slider system. Hair was my first priority. LOL So, I found where those very earily day wigs were being sold and ran right over there. Those pics on the wall were so cuuuuuuuute! So, I spent this huge portion of my starter amount of L$. I found the hair listed in inventory.. clicked to wear it.. and ended up with a sign on my head! I was almost in tears. I thought I had seriously screwed up and bought a sign! A friend I knew from There helped me to get the wig out of the the sign.. *whew* LOL I put it on only to scream that I had a black spider on my head. LOL! It looked nothing like the picture.. Y'all know the story... LOL We, as newbs, purchase something only to find that we are clueless about how to actually get the item.. and then how to use/wear it after we do get it. That is why I am for FREE vendors.. so newbs can get a few things that they can learn with before going out and spending all of their money on items they have no idea how to use yet.

I think it would be neat to see vendors that had items that are ultimatly free, but that actually have prices and different ways to pay for the items. To give new users a feel for the different vending scripts out there. But, each of these scripts should have something written into them where the buyer actually gets their money back after the purchase is made.

I have no idea if it is possible, but I know the more diverse "learning experiences" new users have, the more it will help them in the long run. Not to mention help plant ideas in their new creative minds!

I have no problem with Freebie vendors. That would also be a good way to let newbies know what is freely available in world, so they don't end up paying L$500 for a freebie somewhere else.

Which exists because we wish it to continue to exist - it exists because myself and a bunch of other people donate tier, time, and products to.

With contributors coming and going as their projects allow - checking in and scaling up and down and canvassing people for tier donations happens quite a lot. The opportunity to have it hosted on an island that is being tailored for the very same group is definately worth looking into.

Besides, you've already ragged on the entire concept of the store - not to mention nearly every one of it's contributors - wtf do you care what happens to it?

Siggy.

I would reword this paragraph instead to say the following:

But when they arrive at Schwanson's, they are looped into a system of people that enjoy helping those that are new to SL get their bearings and learn how to create/ explore/ host/ etc. on their own. And where they can make lasting friendships. And where they see all the merchandise of those people who agree with Schwan's vision of helping others and who have gotten to know Schwan's over time and know that he is a decent person that means what he says when he says it. And those people will continue to help Schwan so long as they are truely interested in helping the new people of SL get on their own two feet (or however many feet they end up creating). And thankfully someone will be in charge of the project to make sure no one gets in there that would try and dupe or harm newbies. So this makes a safe place for new people to learn about SL in a controlled environment by people people that care.


That's what I see coming from this project Prokofy. It is too bad your world can't accept this.

*waves hands in the air* Lance lieks helping ^_^

I'd like to help. I've been typing out notecards to help my customers and the rest. Hopefully, I can offer teaching classes in accessory editing, appearance mode, familiarizing folks with the debug menu, etc. I won't be active until after a few more months though. Sounds like a great idea, I hope it goes through.

PS: I'm not volunteering cuz I like the FIC people. Nobody in this thread is my friend. You all fart too much.

I wouldn't worry if you "stole" them from me. I do worry if you sway the Lindens to throw business to you. I will weigh in loud and clear on that. It's not fair.



Nobody's suggesting it's a business plan, Schwanson, Jesus. But all I have to say is: "Schwanson, will you send me all your dwell payments to me every week because they are so paltry and mean nothing" for you to say -- oh, no, I don't think so.

Getting a developer award (I guess you've gotten so many that you even have a little cute acronym for it) is real money, and it loops endlessly because once you're on that list, you recycle on the top list anyway for quite some time. It's a reinforcing vicious circle. Very hard to break into.

Dwell is one of those things that all the oldbies scorn, but watch jealously. Of course it means something as a marker of popularity.




And get on your merchandising spam lists. How come they need so much guidance? Can't they explore like everybody else did?




It's funny how you phrase that. "We have been commissioned to build this world."


It's not venom to sharply counteract calls to get special preferences and throwing of business from the Lindens by gaining access to the newbie flow.

Weigh in when it happens. It hasn't happened. You're just making stuff up.



There is a difference not between breaking even and making nothing. Lets say I do something that costs an abstract figure, say... 200 dollars a month. Lets say what I do, as a side effect of doing it, brings in 50 dollars a month. I'm not MAKING money. Far from it, I'm loosing 150 dollars a month. But I would be DAMNED if I would just give up that 50 dollars a month because some rabid wombat on a forum snidely demanded it.

This is exactly what dwell is for. Offsetting major expendatures to benefit the community. Imagine that.



What spam lists? Or is this just another example of made-up Prokofy-libel?



Considering you constantly harp about how SL is too technical, and LL needs to make things easy for this mythical 'average user', this is more nonsense.



But, it's pretty much true. LL has said a bajillion times they want US to create the world, and the paltry payments from worshiping dwellnor and such are our incentives.



Except - again - Schwan did not call for this. Two random people did, one of whom is blaze. Not Schwan. Everything else you have simply made up and accused Schwan of as if it has already happened.

Okay, I'll be the whistleblower here. Schwanson IM'd everyone in the FIC, which is actually everyone in SL except for one person who is on to us. We're all in on the joke; it's all one big conspiracy to give one guy who is going to pay $200/month out of his own pocket a little bit of dwell. None of us care about helping anyone out.

Can we move on now?

perhaps not stalk, but do I really need to be included in conversations I have not shown any interest in being a part of?

Stalk?

Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha.

*laughs himself sick*

Ok, that was hillarious, blaze.

HEY!!! I resemble that remark!

oh ok, sorry Reits. Maybe that was a bit of an exageration.

Anyways, I think if you advertise and bring a new user on you should be able to set his Welcome Area.

This could be useful if you were trying to start up community islands, like a christian island, a buddhist island, a single moms island, etc.

Reitsuki,

I'm not stupid. Duh, I get that Schwanson's project didn't happen yet. I get that LL didn't throw him the business yet. My posts are *pre-emptive* in nature to *prevent* that kind of sweetheart deal from getting started because it is very hard to undo after the fact. Already a player called for LL to steer to him, so I jumped in. Nowhere have I characterized Schwanson as *already* getting steerage because it's an understood in this thread that the entire discussion is a hypothetical, and only you are fuming and jumping up and down and making false accustations that *I'm* making false accusations -- but I am rebutting a hypothetical sternly by pre-empting it, that's all.

I also understand that dwell is chump change and only offsets some losses. Duh. I got that like a thousand years ago. But "worshipping dwellnor" puts you up on the dwelloper's list, and that is some real serious US dollar money. Not to mention the big burnish of your rep you get, and the increased traffic that existing traffic always brings you FOR SALES of all that artfully placed merchandising which is only a landmark away now from Newbie Island. Blah. It's so obvious. And you are just dancing around it.

Pendari's glowing description of the Wonderful World of Schwanson may be true, but I suspect that not all is as glowing once you get around to looking at the Wonderful World of Schwanson's Friends and Friends of Friends. So steerage and looping and capture aren't such fantastic ideas.

If we're commissioned to build the world, how come you all need LL to steer newbs to you? And I *know* that Schwan himself didn't propose that -- any idiot reading the thread can see it -- but two players *did* and it is a natural, given Schwanson's close personal relationship with Lindens as an older and established player. Now...Schwan didn't say "I'm not going to do that" so it remains open as an issue.

I'm not for breaking the Lindens' own rules about advertising in the Welcome Area. Even advertising the Wonderful World of Schwanson is breaking that rule.



I really hate blaze's idea, sorry. There really shouldn't be such blatant player and LL-sponsered linkage, whereby a grab a newbie into my themed island the minute he comes in the door just because he worked out a recommendation. For one, the recommendations are gamed like anything else, and it just sets up more closed loops.

So, in other words, you're complaining about nothing.

Got it.



Those two statements aren't compatable. Something that is chump change is not "real serious" money.



Once again, we get down to the fact that despite all your claims, you seem to be anti-capitalist. I'm unable to reconcile that view with your others... You like capitalism, but you don't like anything ABOUT capitalism. I wonder if capitalism is really the word you're looking for.




Again, you are complaining about nothing. And doing so in such a way that I would consider it libel.



You said it yourself, I thought. I thought we are all techi-wikki who aren't able to do anything that isn't self-serving and shudder at the thought of helping humanity.

That's a complete load of bullshit, of course, but since you accept it as true, doesn't it follow that LL would need to bribe us to do something useful?

Once again, though, it boils down to you complaining about something that doesn't exist.