SL Forum Jury for Taco Rubio. Forum Jury decides fate.

siggy, you'll recall in that case grimmy posted the image to the viewing screen at stage 4, a pg area. but you bring up a good point - what business did pituca have hanging it all out in a pg zone and why wasn't she suspended? just kidding


being retarded, i thought i should respond
flaming crosses are political statements.
racial slurs are hate speech.
anonymous upskirts of avatars are neither of these.

And what harm has been done to you?!? You're digital self has been covered in a digital texture in a digital world where nothing, including your self, is not real. What line should we draw between real life and virtual life?!? I undertand if I'm hurting your playtime, that would be taking away from you and your money. But if i took some pictures, and put them up.. and you dont like them.. dont look at them. Its like a porn site on the internet.. its there doesnt mean you have to acknowledge it. Hell, there are plenty of porn sites on the internet that are actions that REAL people take that would be considered Illegal in the states, yet people in the states view it. But people who dont like the particular "fetish" or whatever it may be.. dont view it, stay away from it, and ignore it and continue on with their own lives. Which should be done here, get on with your Second Life people. Hell, get on with your real one.

Against your 'pixelated barbie doll..'

and the flaming cross could just be some brilliant social commentary, if I'm reading this all correctly.... It could just be 'art' meant to inspire a response!!! BRILLIANT!!

Siggy.

Unless, of course, your picture is on the porn site I guess.... then perhaps your perception changes a bit...

addendum as you totally sidestepped what I said -- it's not that their pictures were taken, but they were taken without their consent..

If you appeared naked on a porn site from your last stay in a hotel -- you may be a lil offended... but you don't HAVE to look at the site do you?

Some folks here feel the same way - and I can appreciate that.


Siggy.

*rare cynical stare*

This is more like Law & Order SUV: so big and inefficient, it tramples everything in its path as it sucks the forum bandwidth

Hahahaahahahaha.
I'm laughing my ass off after reading that.

-Adam

but.....
James Bond - Die Another Day is on now WOOOO

ok since you are stressing this point, maybe i misunderstand this image. what is the sigificance of this imagery? is it political like - "down with the pope's decree!" or is it a hateful like - "christians must die now!"

i saw some burning crosses in a madonna video. she kissed a black jesus or something.

remember, i argued that racial slurs are a reference to real human bodies. they are directed towards the player, not the avatar.

Why It's meant to inspire social commentary, like this! It's about opening discussion about RL taboos in images and thier overlap into the digital community!
It's about the duality of man, and the ever encrouchment of censorship! It's about free speech and self government!

Yeah you argued that - but how do you know for sure? surely they can't KNOW you, so it must be against your AV..... I'm not convinced yet J -- especially when the case I cited could only have been about my AV...

You should be pleased J, I'm totally agreeing with you on this! - I didn't expect such opposition when I decided you were totally right

People have this whole AV hangup - like you said, it's just pixels, and who cares what one bunch of pixels says to another? I mean we're just playin dressup and all - so who really cares?

Siggy.

Jauani, do you remember when the goons went after the furries? Was that due to their RL bodies?

/seriousness

This link may indicate that indeed it was:

http://jwz.livejournal.com/304579.html

I'm kind of curious what sort of women you know if a vagina isn't a reference to a real human body, and more specifically, a real female human body.

while i was considering my response to jon's post, i came to learn that LL might have made their decision already, making this discussion moot.

LL seems to have taken a position on the identity and self during technological extension. they will take a stand that cultural theorists are still wavering on. expect to see the TOS rewritten to tell you that your AV is you, whether you like it or not.

LL also seems to favour an apolitical society managed by regulations rather than a society wherein normative behaviour emerges from social evolution. The experiment may be over. There no room for art, only commodity and aesthetic. art is dangerous. it makes people think. commodity is wonderful. it makes people content.

i have always been impressed with LL in the past and so i sincerely hope that this is just a case of broken telephone.

This is a slippery slope that we should not go down.

Trial by mob rule is insanity.

Thank god we have no power to implement the punishments.

It sounds as though you are speaking about LL's position as if this 'society' is akin to real life. Where is the need for a political body and social evolution if we are all just a bunch of pixels?

Your two paragraphs seem to be contradictory to me. You state that the dividing line between self and technology is a brand spanking new issue that even cultural theorists are still wavering on. This issue has made us assess where to draw that line in this brave new world. What is that if not normative behavior emerging from social and technological evolution? Does it only count if it goes the way of your own personal opinion? I'll be sure to use the "art" excuse next time I get caught peeking in the windows of the hot blond housewife that lives down the street.

You can only get away with this, if you bring an easle or a camera.

-Adam

So, I can be just as offensive and disgusting as I want in SL, I can do whatever the hell I want without asking anybody if it's OK, I can do anything to anybody and they shouldn't complain, because hey, it's not real?? Good to know that.

All these people who think Taco's done nothing wrong are missing the point the rest of us are trying to make. Let him display his 'art' project, it's fine, put up pics of whatever you want, just FRELLING ASK FOR CONSENT FIRST! Why is that so hard to understand? He could have said, 'I'm doing an art project which involves a gallery of crotch shots, would you mind if I included you?' Not that difficult.

As for 'playtime,' with land use fees, I pay about $25 a month to be a part of this world. Lots of people pay much more than that. I think the least thing we can expect for that kind of money is a little bit of damn respect.... and 'respect' includes not displaying pictures of this sort without asking if it's OK.

"But Mrs. Johnson... I have pastels!"

I've yet to figure how there is no room for art....

Because to be blunt and honest - I think the only reason you towed the art line was as an enabler to perpetuate the discussion (or argument - however you may see it). I don't think this was ever about expression of self - as it was about empowerment over someone else.. In fact I'd be very very very suprised if the creator thought it was art -- more a prank that may have gone over either brilliantly or backfired - depending on their objectives.

I still think that under scrutiny the Avatar is a pixel doll falls - ergo we can do what we want - falls under scruitiny because at some point there will be something that will piss you off - and when you hit that point, your viewpoint will change... justify it however you want, but somewhere you draw the line -- that line may be different for others, and some folks will have to recognise that.

To conclude:

I am a white male not of American origin..

I may never feel the true pain of the many racial epithets this country offers...
I may never feel the indignation or degradation of being sexually objectified...

This, however, doesn't make these pains non existant - nor does it lessen those that do feel them.. It doesn't trivialize the hurt or indignation done to you because I don't feel it.

And thats really the only difference in the end -- one of these examples may sting you - but that doesn't mean the other doesn't sting someone else.

I'm guilty of it myself -- I get angry when I see a man strike a woman - very angry in fact - and it doesn't matter if it's on the TV screen, or a pixel barbie doll - that image strikes a personal chord with me....

Just like racial slurs strike others.
Just as these non-consentual 'candid' snapshots strike someone else.

Siggy.

Are you saying that LL's formed their (purported) stance on this issue solely because they are only listening to those who are on the *please ask first* side of the fence? If so, I have to ask; why?

Exactly right. Besides, if she didn't want you to take pictures of her, she wouldn't have left that tiny crack open between the blinds, now would she?

Thank you, Siggy! I lurve you!

i don't know if i feel like getting back into this discussion right now. i'll wait until we really find out what's happening behind the scenes.

i'll just respond to chips because its more about my intentions/objectives, than my arguement.



there is no contradiction in how i intended my statements. i felt that the discussion taking place was our limited public sphere wherein the "community" was, through rational discussion, determining for itself definitions and normative behaviour. that is why i took a position and participated. also, i felt that because this piece of work was able to generate such questions in our "community", regardless of it's crudeness or of taco's unknowable real intentions, it fit the most philosophically valuable standards of art. - the art that makes us question our selves, our surrounding or way of being, not art that is oh so pretty.

i had never believed this medium to be really be a "community" or political but this one event suddenly involved me in a discussion that would suggest otherwise, to which it seemed LL was taking a back seat. but instead it is not us coming to some consensus, but it seems to be LL making a rational corporate decision (which i do not begrudge either - this is a game company afterall). and so i am once again disillusioned. i guess the only thing i don't enjoy is LL's use of community and Cory's use of the commons, but decisions that would disable such things.

in suggesting this is a waste of time, i'm not suggesting any of you are a waste of time. you all have made great arguements which made me think (aimee stumped me). except the taco taco taco taco guy. i'm just not feeling it anymore

so in conclusion, buy my land. visit my website. buy my guns. pass me the meds.
or in an ironic twist -
$$$ sigh

What exactly has LL done or decided? Is there a post somewhere?

what i have heard is taco is suspended
/me waits for ovation to subside

apparently he was suspended for a trepass which was not listed in the "community" standard or the terms of service. so perhaps a new rule that this event required but enforced retroactively.

of course like all suspension stories this is hearsay. so i'm waiting to see what new ordinance enters our agreements.