Costume Party in Neaultenberg

This has nothing to do with creating rules for SL --this entails creating an environment where people who enjoy such things as governmental procedures and politics can play.

It isn't necessary for us --it's FUN for us.
Your AVs wings aren't necessary for flight -- we can all fly in SL without them.
Shall I work to deny your rights to wings simply because they aren't needed?

Politics are Neualtenburgs wings. Can we at least agree on that?

I'll explain my feelings about it --but recognize that I'm me and she's her. You'll have to have that conversation with her yourself -- This is something I think she has deeply personal feelings about, and while I uunderstand that you're really just seeing yourself as a Marx Brother in Freedonia --you haven't seemed to convey that to Ulrika.

Toy --I'm from Brooklyn --I rarely veil anything.
Apology accepted --and frankly I do love fairies --so keep the wings.

I will agree to that I would wonder though why when someone joins Neualtenburg they are told they do not have to participate in the government side. Is it just 5-6 people who are really interested in the Neualtenburg government? Thats the amount I see posting on the governmental threads. Yet all who join the Neualtenburg group will have to live under these laws and rules?

Well said Kendra... You can create anything in SL. People who like to play poker create poker tables, those who want to play with governement aquire a Sim and create Governement.

Go play poker or come play in Neualtenburg, no one is forcing you to do either.

Toy if you don't believe in gambling, don't go to the poker tables, but don't feel like you have to tell everyone you see that Gambling is bad.

I abhor gambling and have nothing to do with it, yet why are you insinuating that to speak about Neulatenburg I must belong to it? Isnt that saying to disagree is not allowed?

They don't have to join in the Government --anymore than in the RW a citizen doesn't have to join in on the Government.

What rules? We are settingt up some rules for the Government that's true --rules for selling things in Neualtenburg? They are no more intrusive than your average mall.
Rules for throwing events? The only rules apply to Government sanctioned events --we are very clear about the private citizen having the right to assemble in the commons and say whatever they like.

The only other rules for a citizen I can think of --are already apart of the LL TOS.

I can't let this one slide by...

"Sweetie"?!?

Come now!!! You can be more condescending than that, can't you?

- Ace

Again --and very clearly --you do not have to be part of the government in Neualtenburg any more than a citizen of any city must be part of that city's government.

But, isnt it implied by belonging to the group that you accept the government, even if one doesnt?

sorry. shmoopie woopie.

I see. So you are saying that you would like to live in Neualtenburg because you (perhaps) like the settings and buildings, but you don't accept or recognize the system that will keep it in operation?

How are the artists who work on the buildings to get paid? How do the people get to decide on the course the city takes? How does collaboration between different people on projects become the norm rather than the exception? How does the consistency of aesthtics keep from being ruined by rogue buildings? These are only some examples of what is needed to keep Neualtenburg a functioning city in the manner that we attempting.

basically --how do we keep it from falling apart?

You have only two responsabilitys as a citizen. Vote and Enjoy...and even then you don't HAVE to vote --it's not like you'll be arrested for not voting.

After that --it's all gravy and to the individuals sense of enjoyment.
The government is set up to be a service to the city --not a leader.

Maybe I'm missing something here --I can admit to a certain attachment to the project as is -- Maybe I've got on some blinders I don't know about. How is there any infridgement on anyone's rights?

Kendra, perhaps I also am missing something, I tend to think along the lines of RL governments. To me Nuealtenburg is a communism. The state owns all. Who normally pays for buildings? Why, the land owner that hires them. It just stirkes me that the government is coming first in Neualtenburg. And it just strikes me that the government is going to live off the back of the citizens.

<<I deleted your thread.>>

... and on the fresh breezes that blow on the slopes of Neualtenburg, comes the first, subtle, taint of totalitarianism.

Hmmm --okay --by way of how this might work-- let's walk through an example of someone who just wants a nice house in which to live in the city. She doesn't want to sell anything in Neualtenburg. She doesn't want to join a Political Party --she just wants to live in Neualtenburg.

The People of the group own the land, so The People have a say as to how the land is used and what manner of building is to go there.

This person can't build--and would like a house as pretty as the next door neighbor's.
She hires some citizens who are members of the artist's guild, who already know what the established building codes are, to build her a house. The artists (members of the community) who built the house are happy because they got a job and made money doing what they love. The People are happy because a Guild built house pumps money into the economy thru taxes placed on the artists who built the house.
The woman is happy because she has a pretty house to live in --and her only responsabilty is to vote (if she wants) , pay property taxes (If she is not a land tier donator) and enjoy life in Neualtenburg.

As someone who did quite alot of the building prior to there being a government --I can assure you the building came before the government

Much better... see, you CAN be trained!

- Ace

The only difference I can see though is when a normal government is formed it comes from people who own land nearby one another and form their goverment to add to the village. I just cant comprehend seeing the governement own all and then allow people to live on certain plots that the government decides they can.

It just seems to me what is being attempted is building from the top down. I also do a great deal of buiding, own a great deal of land to do it in also. But, the difference being it's my land, not the government that is allowing me to live on it.

And your model works for an individual very well. I also own a great deal of land and do a great deal of building on it.

Neualtenburg is a collection of people --the government doesn't "own" the land in Neualtenburg, The People own the land.--The Government serves the people's interest by managing the details. Many things in SL are done from the top down --Did you enter SL as an infant or as an adult avatar with an established knowledge base?

There are many types of systems that work for the interaction of a community --I'm already planning on a tribal style society for an entirely different form of community and environment.

What we are trying to attempt in Neualtenburg is the government in service to the people --not the reverse. We also think it's fun to have that government have elements of both medieval guild systems and modern social democracy --in a reflection of the architecture of the city. This experiment has never been about imposition on unwilling people -- it's an open experiment --one can participate or not participate at any level one chooses.

PS --The Lindens own the land and are allowing you to live on it --in effect they are the uber-government of us all.

Time will tell...

- Ace

Note : emphasis in the quote is mine.

If the goverment doesnt own the land are citizens allowed to purchase any of it?

As far as entering SL we all start as infants, we learn as we live in SL. The only difference is knowledge we have gained from RL as to what is right and wrong.

Of course LL owns SL, they are the government of SL. Any others formed arent really a government they are a group.

Kendra, your a city girl, Im a country girl we will never see eye to eye on many things. I simply wish to state my beliefs as you do also.

on that we definately agree! You'll probably be intrigued though by my upcoming tribal experiment --which seems something (I could be wrong) more to your liking

Hmm, funny, this is exactly the reason why people didn't want a player run government in the first place. Voices are not heard, only people who at the time have a say in anything that goes on. Typical political BS.

As for saying you have to be involved in something in order to be apart of the project, I'd say that's pushing your limits. To me, thats not only Communism, that's Totalitarianism. In order for the government to work properly, is everyone (in the group) has to have a say in it, no matter how small of an opinion. If someone is apart of something that the person doesn't like doing, they shouldn't have to be forced into doing it. Plain and simple.

The People is a populist way of saying "The Government". "The People" are always "the government". The government isn't some large building walking around, doing crazy things. It's you and I.

Had to nitpick.



So I could join up and start an anarchist sect, working diligently to bring down the open experiment? Within the TOS and CS, of course.

Just wondering how open you're all willing to be.

LF

You're arguemnt would hold water if I actually said that.
You DON'T have to be involved in the politics if you don't want to be.

How more clear can I be?

Yeah --I'm so stupid --I didn't know that, Lordfly.

We already have an anarchist sect working diligently to bring down the experiment --talk to Talen Morgan about it.