Fellow Countrymen, Lend me your ears...

If you are not someone who is interested in matching your actions to your words, don't waste your time reading any further.

With this said, I am appalled and very disappointed to see that Linden Labs has not acted in accord with their TOS and permanently banned the individual responsible for the recent grief attack upon one of their customers (Ref: /120/c3/39976/1.html).

I am further disappointed to see that, from all appearances, Linden Labs has chosen a very blasse' mindset with regard to actually enforcing their TOS, up to and including glorifying clearcut violations OF that TOS on their own, company-paid and endorsed blog (For details, kindly refer to my story located at: http://www.dragonscoveherald.com/blog/index.php?p=742).

But most disappointing of all is the number of people who will complain here, on the forums, and do little to nothing more.

I'm sorry, but if this is really an important concept to you, that Linden Labs actually adhere to their TOS as they expect US TO, bitching on the forums and nothing more just doesn't cut it.

Change does not come in these games by bitching alone. Game companies only understand we (the paying customer) mean business when we hit them in the wallet.

I'm following this incident very, very closely. If this individual is not permanently banned, I will be cancelling my account. Period. I'll miss the people here, the friends I've made, and the fun I've had... but in the end, there are more important things than playing a game... and being consistant in supporting those who are paying you is one of them.

I sincerely hope that you who are reading will choose to join me and demonstrate that we are serious about this, we want Linden Labs to demonstrate the same commitment to their TOS as they expect of us. That it IS important, it DOES matter, and that slapping these folks on the wrist IS NOT ENOUGH.

Thank you for reading.

Did this really need another thread...The Lindens ( Robin ) Already stated that the incident was being looked into and the appropropriate actions would be taken. This person may not be permabanned as you wish because LL takes into account more than the incident at hand.

Actually, yes, it did need another thread.

First and foremost because things get buried here quickly and this is something that should remain on top of discussion.

Secondly, because this entire world and service is predicated upon the notion that we are a social community that, if not Utopian, at least strives to be so and such behavior cannot be permitted.

Thirdly, because when it comes down to it, the only recourse we, as paying customers, have is to be vocal upon the things that truly disturb us.

Finally, because, despite your apparent detachment from the fact or concern for what it bodes to everyone who enjoys this service -- permitting individuals who do these things to remain is tacit support of such behavior and if that is the stance Linden Labs intends to take, they should damn well be straight up about it and not play the 'let it cool down and we'll keep that subscription money' game.

Feel free to add me to your ignore list. Feel free not to read. I do believe the first sentence of this post was specifically directive on the matter.

However I will not feel badly for voicing my conviction on the matter, nor on continuing to do so until it is clear just what is going to be done about this.

There is nothing being buried quickly as there are 3 active threads on the matter...and everyone takes these matters seriously. Robin Linden has already stated that they are investigating the matter and will take appropriate action...in the year I've been here I have yet to see the Lindens take such a matter lightly.

What punishment they prescribe is no ones business as this is an issue between LL and the offender and they will deal with it quickly. Add 15 more threads if you like but the outcome will still be what it will be.

Yes, yes, yes... I get it -- you believe that nothing anyone does or says means a thing and that people who speak up and keep speaking up are just wasting their breath.

It is not 'just between Linden Labs and the offender', as it effects or has the potential to effect any one who pays to be here.

You've made your point. I've made mine. We disagree. I'm content to leave it at that. Have the last word if you feel the need. I'll only be replying on this to keep it bumped from this point.

I think keeping this issue alive, and in the spotlight is absolutely the right thing to do. If the Lindens go soft of this issue, they need to be held accountable.

However, I think this thread could have waited until around Tuesday, maybe Wednesday. This is a holiday weekend so the Lindens in charge of administering punishment for severe TOS violations are not really on the clock right now and they want to be with their families. Unlike a server crash, this really is the kind of problem that can wait until Monday.

I do not advocate a boycott of Linden Labs services, a cancellation of game subscriptions, or any effort to disrupt the game or the enjoyment of other customers over this attack.

I believe that we need to keep raising this issue with the Lindens, we need to keep pressing them to articulate their policies and follow through, and ban permanently those who are repeat offenders as we evidently see with this individual.

We need to work for longer suspensions -- 30 days or longer might be in order.

We need to push the Lindens to articulate coherently why they can't tracks IPS numbers like Uri can for Chrissakes, that's all they need to do.

I think grandstanding can be counterproductive, though I am the pre-eminent grandstander. You will not find a more vigorous and aggressive person on this cause, and since it is me, my community, and my neighbours who were attacked, I want action.

If some people commit virtual avatar suicide over this and quit the game, neither me, my homesteading community, my neighbours, or GLBT who are looking for protective spaces in this game are served.

Let me make a few other announcements while I have the microphone:

1. I am not releasing the name of this individual because this defeats the purpose of the current Linden system where names of perpetrators are not released. I'm sorry they have this system, I hate it, but I don't really have a choice but to go along with this when they claim to have handled the innocent via the police blotter. I believe naming and shaming is crucial and I'd like to see a lot more of it, but this is a poor choice of case. The individual account in question is a temp alt with no skills maxxed despite the date and doesn't tell you anything.

2. I did not commit this attack on myself with an alt. This not my alt. Lindens know that. Please get that particular sickness out of our repetoire.

3. I do not seek glory or attention due to this attack to sell land. I am not amping up the volume of this attack to sell land. I am not "exploiting" the good and noble right of gay rights to sell land, any more than I am doing this with FREE TIBET as many claim. The land is for sale for $3 in a PG sim far from the telehub to those who join the group and can keep the terms of residential and low-impact builds. Geez, there's no money-making machine here. Some of the parcels will be non-profit. Please get a grip. Get off my back. I do not exploit good causes to sell land. Land sells in SL without me doing a damn thing to sell it, believe me.

4. I don't want to lead the charge on this one. I am sick and tired of being the object of hate attacks of all kind, whether it is a) on perceive sexual identity b) choice of theme for my communities or c) allegations that I am scamming and frauding newbies.

Create some zoned sims and ban the players.

It's funny, there is so much anti-government in SL yet everyone is just dying for LL to govern them.

Funny, I have been here for two years, and have consistently seen this handled poorly. The person gets a slap on the wrist generally, and comes right back and does it again. That is definitely taking it lightly, in spite of all the "we take it seriously" messages. It is very much the business of people being victimized by this kind of stuff. Whether there is one thread or 50 threads, it is important to people, or they would not be posting about it.

What has happened here amounts to an act of terrorism. All this attention generated by it is exactly what the "terrorist(s)" want. Now at least one person who is sensative to the plight of the victims is threatening to leave over it, which is also what they want. By threatening to leave, you couldn't be playing into their hands better if you tried.

If you really want to make a difference, don't leave because you view something as out of hand, STAY because you view it as out of hand. Only by sticking around can you hope to enforce change. Leave and you'll hardly be missed; stay and you can maintain an active voice. Would Martin Luther King leave SL if blacks were being persecuted there? Would Ghandi pack his bags? Would Rosa Parks get off the prim-bus?

No one who ever stormed off in protest ever accomplished anything. It's only those who stand proactively in defiance who make any difference. I truly hope you can come to understand that. Good luck.

Ok lets fill the whole front page with the same thread then....point being the Lindens have read those threads and we don't need 3, 4, 5 of the same thread on the same subject because someone wants some spotlight time to themselves.

Beating your chest and saying I will make LL tell me the particulars of this case against this individual won't work because it's no ones business...its between LL and the Offender. A vocal crowd will never be allowed to make that call because in time crowds won't just be vocal against serious offenders but people who just rub them the wrong way...or build a tall cube that blocks the view of the ocean.

This is a Holiday weekend you have no clue what the Lindens have done or will do come Monday. The Lindens are the only one that truly know all the particulars of the case as they know who, what, where, time, and circumstances ....they have logs to go through and get that information.

I think the person that did this should be permabanned just as most others do....but I'm putting my trust in the people that know all the particulars...not the people who just saw the offence...or only know one small part.

Nightly bump. Enjoy the evening, folks.

I disagree with you, Talen, that the punishment rendered is nobody elses business. Thats a mistake LL keeps making in their crusade to maintain privacy. Punishment for offenders is every SL residents business. We need to know that we are being protected from the asshats and griefers that think they can run rampant through our streets. (OK, FLY rampant through our skies then.) While LL is right in protecting the RL info of it's customers. It is wrong protecting the names and crimes of what constitutes criminals in SL. That isn't done in RL. Many newspapers routinely print the names of people who are arrested for crimes in their local areas straight from the police blotters. Their are websites that list the names and addresses of Sexual offenders living in your area. The Lindens are wrong to protect SLs criminals in world privacy. We need to know who to protect ourselves from, or who to avoid. The current employees of LL are lucky they aren't elected to their positions, because the first Get tough on Crime candidate would win by a landslide.

The way LL currently handles things is merely facilitating the griefers on a certain level.

They tell us to handle these problems ourselves, but won't give us powerful enough tools to do so. They really CAN'T give us such tools, because then the griefers will use these same tools to grief. If someone shoots us on our own land, and we shoot back WE get suspended. The whole thing is a clusterfuck that the Lindens need to revamp. And lame comments like yours are just meant to troll. I know this because I often do the same thing.

And what if LL gets it wrong or people reporting it get it wrong? What happens to the person who's information is released....I'll tell you what... they won't be here because they will have been run out of SL on a rail after they have been tarred and feathered. This is exactly the reason why LL should handle this and not residents. As I said I think what was done is a permaban offence but I don't think mob justice will work because thousands of years of mob justice has proven otherwise.

2000 years ago a mob determined that a certain Jesus should be crucified and he was....2000 years latter millions praise his word...

The fact remains that LL will do what is right for the community or they won't ...each decision will affect them in a different way.

Alright.

Give it a rest, dear...

- Ace

Firstly, players have no authority to govern. Secondly, it's not our call to govern. Third, the internet can't be governed. Only those who provide it can.

Got Milk?

No thanks. There's enough of that happening in the world.

Nightly bump. Be well, all.

Things get "buried here quickly"? Pah! I see some threads still around that were started a month ago.

Like this one /120/8c/27411/5.html#post432716

Hi Talen. You've got a good point but I think that what would happen is that if people were allowed to name names that gradually the mob-mentality knee-jerk reaction, if it does occur, might become less and less common. Many residents are willing to treat others as innocent until proven guilty and many appreciate that there are many sides to every story. At the moment, public reactions to alleged badness may be less than decorous because there are few stories that slip through the cracks that residents actually get to hear about.

I think it is similar to the free-speech debate (indeed it might be the same debate). If people are protected from hearing certain ideas or arguments, their grey-matter can become lazy and undiscerning. But if people are exposed to a very diverse range of opposing ideas and theories, their brains are forced to mull things over in order to separate the wheat from the chaff. And through practice they begin to acquire all sorts of media literacy and critical thinking skills. This is why, for example, Christians who have been exposed to atheist texts and reasoning are often able to articulate their positions more clearly and debate with alternative viewpoints in a more robust and compelling way.

In the same way, if criticism and allegations against others were allowed to be expressed publicly, residents might become more aware of how difficult it is to instantly dismiss or condemn someone out of hand. And this would actually decrease the current mob-mentality overall, if indeed it does occur here.

If everybody gets tarred and feathered, tar and feathers becomes the latest fashion trend rather than a badge of shame However, I might be wrong and it might all just become one huge fustercluck Mob-mentality can be a tricky term, like 'terrorism'. When we agree with the mob's goal, we sometimes call it a 'committee'

-- Neal Stewart

Why us that the pundits who scream so loudly about free speech are so opposed to dragging other real life conditions into SL like publically listing offenders? Hell, once a month there is a list of people charged, not yet convicted of crimes in most city's newspapers.

I have to agree with you completely, Talen. We've beat LL responses and how bad we all feel about this to death. If someone is at the point that they feel the need to post a threat to quit then they should just quit and be done with it.