Gaming Dwell System?

Maybe I'm not being clear.

BJ, I respect your hard work. So do a lot of people. Maybe you don't realize it, but your comment about Elite being more popular than all those things was TOTALLY insulting to the rest of us.

Myself included, a builder, who has spent hours and hours making things, including stuff I give out for free. I don't expect the public praise. From the great builders I've met in SL, neither do they. So on top of your insulting claim of how Elite > all, including building, you've sort of made an expectation that us builders... well... we think is added insult.

Not just an insult, but a HUGE insult. It hurts to hear how one club suddenly trumps the efforts of hundreds of builders.

But Hiro we are more popular then all them things you have list

But move to sim was force by assholes within sl that could not leave us alone and always trying to rig up stuff bomb us and force us into new sim cause we got tired of it.

Yes i could had said hell on it and stay at old club and deal with all lag and assholes coming by starting fights and trying to get me ban to force me to break a rule, but I did not want to give up and just wanted a nice home for our club to be good in and with out all lag that most of you said was cause by me.

But now you see that is not so much true anymore

Post the numbers proving that.

Personally, I think you're suffering from a mild case of megalomania.

I am not trying to put them things down, you started putting me down on sometrhing cause I said we have help sl alot, and way you put it was like we did not do anything at all.

Not a thing wrong making things and scripting and so on love that stuff to, but we are talking about events stuff here and you try to turn it around in way like I am putting it down and that is no way what I mean.

Hell it all starts out in class in sl to learn from and that stuff helps sl big time for new ppl to be at, but all I said we have more ppl then most of them events do.

I did not or trying to put anything down here so please don't try to turn it around on me.

What you mean is your dwell is higher than them.
1. Your dwell is not higher than everything else on the list combined.
2. Builders often build alone, in the sandbox, or in public land = no dwell.
3. Many events are on Linden land = no dwell. I would LOVE to see how you stack up against Stage 4. heheh
4. How do you measure popularity with dwell for things like AVs, or attachments, or vehicles, or scripts, or ... etc ? You can't. Dwell measures non-Linden land EVENT popularity, not overall popularity.


I agree, they are ass monkeys.

An alternate solution would be to charge admission. It's a different business model, obviously.

But BJ, please realize your comment is very hurtful. It seems clear to me you simply don't understand the nature of what you said. You're not a bad guy, and I think if you think about what I've said you'll see that perhaps you may want to retract your comments.

Anyway, I gotta run.

p.s. If you are looking for more ways to subsidize your sim in an up-and-up manner, I would be happy to provide some consulting services to you free of charge.

Are you new to sl? lol

sweetie everyone knows that

Sweetie sometimes we got 50 ppl with no events at club there just cause they came on there own to hang out for last 3 or so days.

We are big in alot of ppl no reason to fight over this at all.

Just talking about how many ppl shows up where and who has most, in my book everything helps game all events.

SL scripting is main part of game for sure, there events is must be for anyone that wants to make stuff for game.

And the making of objects they are most big thing to learn from.

But we are talking about big hold events for fun stuff and ect.

Hey! Don't be starting that little trick. I've noticed that's how you are on the Herald, too - as soon as someone dares disagree with you or argue back it's 'just shows how some people can be'.

I have no shame in admitting that I used to LIVE at Elite. I made some of my lasting friendships there. I danced topless in cages there. In fact, BJ, I was over the new Elite a week or so ago (though you'd have strung me up if you'd been there, since I was in a full body furry suit (laaaaag!)) and enjoyed it. I have no problem with Elite. It's been an important centre for a lot of people in SL. But don't DEMAND that the rest of the population respect you for it, and don't make it more than it is.

And certainly don't start giving me shit about how I've turned on you or something, cuz that's just crap. I have a point, I made it.

Edit: Oh, and BJ... I have never, ever, ever tried building or running a club in SL. Not my thing at all (too much like work). So I don't know how you come round to suggesting thats why I'm bitter?

My time in SL is irrelevant.


You will not refer to me in such a condescending fashion ever again.



Assuming that's individuals per hour (and I'll bet its total per hour) then the events I listed have you beat. And mine were *conservative* estimates.



Don't try and isolate now, you were inclusive before.

Everything helps sl, lets just drop this dumb stuff I think made in events for sl is great but not what we are talking about or was main thing here.

All I wanted some some what Credit for something I put my whole sl life into so far.

I am not trying to put anything down and if it sound that way sorry it came out that way. not right I met.

Kris it was true girl

You was member for a long time Kris and alot of old ppl know that.

I don't have to lie or make anything up on this.

I am done with this forum stuff and drama stops here for me so post away all you want girl.

I don't want to fight on this forim all day so guys you can post whatever you want back to whatever, I am done with it don't care or even coming back to look.

You can take part of post and paste it all you want, but ppl can look where it start from and thing was for most ppl at events.

Not trying to put anything down here.

All started out cause I said i should get some Credit for club that ran for year, god and you guys just jump on a reason why we should not have it.

This is so dumb and I am done with it all.

I am happy club is doing good and ppl love new club and I thank them all for support they gave us there and we love all the ppl that help and make club elite what it is today.

The Internet equivelent of stuffing your fingers in your ears and humming real loud.

Buh-bye now.

Eggy - perhaps you're right, but I'll wait a little longer to see if anything comes of that.

In general, I don't care that Elite exists, I care that there are admissions by the owners that they game the dwell system (see first post with external link). Its the principle of the thing. They admit that they have created a 'job' to harvest newbies at welcome. They admit to having policies that are designed to maximize dwell, independant of holding events.

So tell me Linden Lab, can I develop my own anti-idle script? Can I distribute it far and wide to show what a mockery dwell is? In fact, why stop there, can I make a complete documented 'HOW-TO' on what you need to get massive dwell numbers?

Keep the island, keep the club. But don't look me in the eye and say gaming dwell is okay, because it ISN'T.

I hope you read this BJ, even if you won't reply.

I wish I could understand why you think big is best. And you seem to have a burning need to be congratulated, I can't work out what for. It was your choice to build the club, get mega dwell, enough to be top of the list and receive dwelloper 'development awards' in US$. If you need some sort of recognition surely that your club is successful is praise enough?

I am out of SL at the moment due to a RL situation, but when I return, if I want to go to a club in the future, it will be to one of the smaller ones which are friendly and where you get to know all the people there. They don't have mega dwell and they aren't on the list but they offer what a lot of people in SL want.

I think your assertion is laughable that your club is more popular than everything else that goes on in SL. You really cannot believe that, can you? All the builders, scripters, clothes makers in world, together with other club events every day FAR exceed that. Last time I was on SL i spent 5 hours building, more like learning to build, and there are hundreds of players throughout SL doing the same thing.

I think you are suffering from dillusions of grandeur and it would do you good to leave the club and see what is happening in the rest of SL.

Latonia

Oh, and to clarify Linden Lab, all I'm looking for is either:

1) "We've examined it, and the method of dwell accumulation does not violate anything."

2) "Use of scripts to prevent idling are allowed in context of dwell accumulation."

3) "We've examined it, and the method of dwell accumulation is suspect, and we need to investigate further to prevent abuse."

4) "Use of scripts to prevent idling aren't allowed in context of dwell accumulation."

Thanks.

Maxx, I suggest you begin a new thread and let this personal-attack-filled one die.

I'll give you more credit when you, an American citizen with English as a first language, can type more than two sentences in a coherent manner.

Seeing as the latter won't happen any time soon, don't expect the former.



Agh. Classic BJism.

Show up with all your friends, bum-rush the thread, thank all your "supporters", type some more mashed-potatoed sentences, advertise your stupid club in EVERY POST, and then stick your fingers in your ears and leave without hearing any of the ensuing discussion.

You, sir, are an intellectual disgrace. May your kingdom of Dwell collapse under the weight of your own ego.

LF

Never was about who was most big, yes we do got ppl at club sometimes almost 24/7 on good days and night and at times 20+ to 30+ to 40+ to 50+ ppl that does make it good and when most events is done ppl just move on.

Never was about who is best or most big this thing just got way out of hand on main point of something and yes Club Elite has been running for over year now and we are just well known for doing great events for fun.

Making and scripting can take hours and hours to do but this is not about what type of event it may be it was all about most ppl that comes to one place.

So please lets just move on from this and end this silly thing.

To this Maxx guy that is talking all out of his head is one crazy dude if ppl going to think for once we doing what he is saying, hell all the ppl talks to each other there and not use some kind of program to keep from leaving the club.

God how hard does it take to see on map if alot of ppl is there Maxx numbers comes from ppl not from 1 or 2 ppl.

Maxx last thing to you, Let it die and go cause we all know this is just cause you don't like me why you making this up for.

BJ,

I tend not to get critical very often of others, but I need to step in on this one. I will grant you that, yes, you have been a contributor to SL for a long time. Yes, you have the highest dwell. Yes, you pour allot of effort into SL.

Here's where I have to make comment. From many of your own remarks, comments and general behaviours, you do often give the impression that you feel that Elite is the end all be all of SL. When many argue this fact with you, you infact get very excited, and even get more animated and strong headed in your debates.

Let me make a few point form arguements for you to enjoy:

1/ There are many things to do in SL other than attending events at Elite. Infact, if Elite was such the draw as you invision it is to be, you would therefore have to have the dwell of all the other hundreds of builds (club and non-club related) throughout SL combined.

2/ SL prospers through innovation not repetition. While at one time you were a great innovator, and have had you own miniature bouts of this from time to time, which for the most part the rest of the populous experiences as well, Elite for the most part has remained the same. I speak not of rebuilding and moving walls around, rather, original content. There are many original activities, items and passtimes that have evolved within SL that has caused it to change and evolve into a better place. Elite has just, well, existed.

3/ Community, while you have helped the community grow closer together, this is a limited group of people. I last visited Elite back in 1.1. There are much greater builders of community in game. I won't go into them now, but many individuals help foster the community in much more effective ways reaching a much broader audience.

4/ Le joie de vivre. Please don't take this as an attack on you personally. Only until this recent outbreak of tabloid drama, Elite and yourself have really provided a very small effect on the social fabric of SL. Even netorious individuals such as One Song, and WWIIOLERs have contributed more in a much shorter time than you have.


As for the accusations from everyone, its not my place, nor my want, to go into it. All I'm trying to say here is, dude, give people credit, and get off the Elite-Is-The-Best-and-Only-Reason-Why-SL-Still-Exists soap box and stop the preaching. You've always enjoyed a part of the lime light, and to be sitting here, a contribitor of SL, I won't sit by and listen to you claim that Elite is the mecca of SL, and out-shadows everyone else.

SL will continue to grow and thrive, long after Elite, you and me are long gone.

Peace out.

That's right, midnight... check out my post in an ethically similar forum.

Never said Elite was best, please read what all of this was about before you just pick from one thing then post on what I said.

I said one we have most ppl in one place, not about dwell if the dwell was not there to show the score we still would have most ppl that comes to one place most of the time.

This whole thing started out as not dwell or anything to do who has best place but something on our ex dancers.

All I said we help SL out alot for doing such events for ppl of game cause we gave out so much moeny and stuff for ppl and was so nice to let anyone sale from old shop of elite and let me tell you ppl made more money from elite shop then any where else back then and we never ask one person for $1 at all to sale from there and that also was helping alot of ppl out to make alot of money from Elite events and so on.

So tired of doing such nice things for ppl like that and then get talk about like I am some kind of monster or dog.

Elite has done alot for SL and I don't care what some ppl thinks of us and what they think of club cause most that talks bad never even been to elite to show any support or just hate us.

Yes what is wrong saying we should have some Credit for alot of things we have done for game?

Read how all of this got started, thanks

http://www.alphavilleherald.com/archives/000501.html

I repeat, "helps make SL stay alive" - not helps it grow, but stay alive for "all ppl that join".

If these aren't exagerration, I don't know what is. That is why we're upset, BJ.


Because SL is not about getting credit for everything you do, and when you layer this expectation on top of saying, "Oh, Elite kept SL alive and all players have fun at Elite", it's insulting.

Are you beginning to understand now, BJ? I just don't think you're quite getting it. ... at least I want to believe so, since I've known you as a decent guy.

Means helps the ppl of game say for one newb's that has not a thing poor as hell, they come there and win 2k and find ppl at our club giving them free stuff and so on.

Means we help sl game by helping the ppl within game not all about what you guys making it out to be.

That it is you that don't understand sorry to say.

When i said help to keep sl alive did not mean just us alone it met as part of one thing with sl other stuff and now who has this all wroing?

This is a cross post from the "Let's have some prouctive ideas" thread that many may not have seen. Let's try to keep these on track, k? There are problems with the system, and I'm sure people have ideas on how to fix them... here's the post, in case you're ignoring the other thread <grin>:

(1) Elite aren't the only ones doing this. I think BigJohn & co. feel attacked, because they are the oldest, biggest, and easiest target as far as the dwell question goes. Let's be fair here, they're not the only ones cheating the system.

(2) That said, the proof is in the pudding. As mentioned, new players tend to have one of two or three group tags and be members or two or three groups. This kind of spamming is offensive to me, just like people farming the web for unsuspecting peoples' email addresses to spam. Elite and others deny teleporting new players through IM relays between established players, and tagging new players with groups... but I've witnessed this happen with Elite and others over and over. On the Herald site / comments section, this has been admitted... as well as the discussion and admission of using anti-idle applications. Add intimidation tactics, even in SL, to this mix and this is what I have a problem with, not having fun or building a club or any of the people involved. This is however, quite circumstantial evidence.

(3) Solutions?

- I really like the idea of new players not being able to join a group or buy land, other than land for the landless, for the first few weeks they play. Its very easy to be overly excited as a new player and impressionable for the "new frontier". There's something to be said for easing people into the community. This would eliminate problems of unsavory citizens abusing new players for their spam lists and land purchase / sales needs.

- I've heard many complaints about the dwell system - myself as well - but can anyone come up with a metric system or formula that would work better? I don't think a "Linden Panel of Judges" would work, ever, due to accusations of favoritism. If it was voted on by citizens, people would just say its a popularity contest (as has been seen in the past). I believe the developer awards need to be calculated by formula somehow or the cries of favoritism will ring loudly.

- Introductary notecards. How about a notecard warning a new player about teleports the first three times they receive offers? Explaining how in SL you "vote with your feet", and that players will sometimes try to increase their locations popularity just by having you there, and not because they're really altruistic and interested in getting to know some one new? Maybe a "Its a good policy to only accept teleports from someone you have had several conversations with" type notecard should be triggered.

- How about the same for joining groups? A notecard explaining that groups can be used to send spam throughout SL, and that in effect, you are "opting in" just as you would to an email list in many cases. And again, a message to the effect of "only accepting group offers from someone you know" would be a good idea.

Okay, those are my ideas for now. I think they can all be implemented without a new client and what not. What do you guys think?

Regards,

-Flip

Anyone else think that article tasted a bit irony?

... just a little? C'mmooooonnnn, go with me on this one!

*puts his arm around you and waves his other arm infront of the land of SL*

All this could be yours one day young fella and/or miss and/or it and/or gun and/or vehicle, all you have to do is go with me on this one, irony.... c'mon... irony.

[Disclaimer: Oz Spade has not read any of the posts on this thread and has only read the article which he found highly humorous and will print out and put on his wall, really.]