Officer Resigns? LL employeees

Okay.. I'll bite, perhaps I missed something. What exactly was done that has caused this great concern all of the sudden?
and yes, they have access to your personal and financial information, then again if you have ever used a credit card at a gas station a 16 year old kid that you don't know could have access to it also.

What is the worry about what is going to happen?

Perhaps LL employees shouldn't be allowed in game at all except for testing and debugging (linden account or not). Even then the session should be fully logged and posted for public access. They also shouldn't be allowed to speak with any players in any form. After all, what if a linden told another player/friend how to do all these evil things and they just did it then cashed out and split the profits?

Can the power of a system administrator be abused? Of course. You also have to remember there are a great number of people at LL who have much to gain/lose on the success of this company and will be watching for fraudulent activity that would hurt the company in any way.

Any of the programmers/admins could easily create an account, edit the L$ balance to 100 billion dollars and sell every last cent that GOM/IGE would purchase. Would that be smart? no. Would they do it? I am gonna say no.
Does this mean we should take away their access to the systems so they can't do it... just to make sure? Oh wait... that wouldn't work at all, would it?

I use to be a admin at an online game (i'm not going to say which one - and no, not here) I could have created accounts and money and sold them on ebay all day long. I could have cheated, i could have told friends how to exploit unknown bugs. I could have covered up these action by modifying the server logs.

Did I do these things? Of course not. Did I play the game under a non-admin account? Yes I did. Playing the game as a regular user isn't making you a "cheater". Cheating, stealing, and lying do that - playing the game or not isn't going to change that. You are either going to be honest, or you aren't.

Now I realize liaisons probably do not have server access to the extent I mentioned above so in game fraud may be easier for them to do then server editing. But all that means is they are also easier to be caught - it all goes back to the fact that LL is a business, and the big boys don't want to see it fail and someone is keeping an eye out you can bet on it.

Well, there... I rambled on allot but I'm sure it was no more effective than my slapping people with a trout. I do apologize for calling the people with disagreeing opinions complainers though.

Despite my better judgment, i'm going to hit submit now instead of just closing the window.

Viper,

All of that was very well said and I agree with it. I have been a system admin myself, as well as having employed a large staff of people. People are human and make mistakes, and those mistakes can become quite serious when you are in a position of power. Ideally nothing bad would ever happen, but we don't live in an ideal world. I think LL is striking the right balance between freedom and caution, and I applaud them for being open about it - many companies operate in obscurity.

Your apology was also very nice, ad quite rare in these forums Thank you for that.

Cristiano

Ok, this i believe is impossible to achieve. And here's why. People will always be able to create rumors, level baseless accusations, and generally say whatever pops into their heads. There will ALWAYS be someone in the game that someone feels MUST have cheated to get what they have received.

Sadly we are dealing with a powerful collision between human nature, internet anonymity and a product open to the "public" (anyone in customer service knows people are great, the public is an evil scourge)

So lets do a little extrapolation. Let's say for the sake of argument, alts are all identified. They follow the rules just the same as always.

And one day someone says "Foo Avatar neg rated me for spite!"

Foo Avatar when asked, says "No I didn't rate So-and-so for spite."

Angry mob that instantly collects around since this involves an alt (and therefore the future of LL as a viable business enterprise) says "So-and-So Avatar said you did! It must be true! You are neg rating out of spite! Its a plot to drag down a resident's ratings and cost them 0.0111 US$ a week! How can such a malicious act of griefing be allowed to continue! To the governor's mansion to demand this unconscionsable abuse be put to rest!"

So the result is, a new policy. alts cant use the rating system, except to positive rate. Neg rates are considered an abuse if given by an alt.

Ok, time goes by. And someone notices that Foo Avatar is spends a lot of time in a particular sim, even worse with a particular group of people! So someone says, "Those people are getting an unfair advantage because Foo Avatar talks to them!"

Foo Avatar and Foo's Friends reply, "No we are just friends and like to hang out. "

Another angry mob cries out, "All of the things you do must be a direct result of secret information that the Lindens give to you. Everyone else is at disadvantage! To the gov's mansion!"

So the result is, a new policy. alts cant fraternize with the residents.

Until we arrive at the point that the only place an alt can legally be is standing in the welcome area, unable to rate, probably unable to IM (secret info could be passed) only able to chat briefly to avoid the appearance of favoritisim.

So now that the alt-menace is neutralized, how about the insidious lindens themselves!

So sne day, "Foo Linden IMs with Such-and-Such Avatar and plots to grief me! Oh and discusses personal info about me, and they even trade avatars so Foo Linden can come into the world and neg rate me!"

Foo Linden "No thats not true"

And the crowd, smelling blood in the water, gathers again...

Even with NO alts anywhere in the world. Lindens can still be accused of just about anything someone wants to think up, and I can either believe the rumor or not. But there is nothing any company can do to stop rumors altogether.

Obviously the solution is to get rid of the Lindens entirely. No Lindens = no alts.

I just wish this thread would die. The issue is pretty moot anyway. The Lindens aren't going to stop their employees from playing. They have rules in place. And, it is pretty much none of our business anyway.

LL is a business.

We are questioning if it's a wise business decision to allow alts to play and possibly dirty their own playground that they've worked hard to create.

While one might see an "alt" as an individual; for many, they see the entire company.

Let's hope that the Alt's also realize how important a positive atmosphere is within SL; and being human would step back before using a neg rating or doing anything remotely thought of as abusive to an existing player. I would hope that an Alt in that situation would help the landowner to use the quieter more effective ways of handling a griefer, i.e., the freeze, eject and ban tools before getting involved in a ratings war.

It's not seen as a black mark on that individual -- it would be seen as a black mark on the entire organization. With the new and improved developer's awards with Linden's being judges, with land being as expensive as it is -- yes, individuals will be watching closely.

It's the overall perspective of the company.

I see nothing wrong with a Linden alt-av giving a neg rating. They have just as much right to do so as we do, and for the same reasons.

The requests for proof on the boards are essentially an invitation to get you banned. We are muzzled in this regard. Just because there is no proof posted on the boards does not mean there is no proof, or that these incidents have not been reported and the resulting actions found to be unsatisfactory...I am such a case. Ultimately you will go to the boards because you feel you are simply not being listened to anywhere else. This is a fact for people that are not associated with the Lindens and their alts. "I'm sorry" doesn't fix it.

Arguing for these points as a hidden Linden alt is a conflict of interests. The sentiment should come from the customer base, not the employees. If employees are not allowed to smoke in a restaurant, but customers are, would you say there is no conflict of interest if an employee walks in when he's not working, so as a customer, lights up a cig, so obeying the rules "technically" (since they're not on the job), and says, "as a customer I feel employees should be allowed to smoke"? Nobody is going to remind that person that they are an employee and should be silent, or take it up directly with the boss and keep their opinion out of the customer base? Would it be different if they walked in with chin putty and a fake nose so nobody recognized them?

That staff member would undoubtedly have the right to state their opinions as a customer the next day, while they are out looking for another job.

Regarding neg rating, no WAY should an employee of Linden Lab ever in any way neg you, alt or not. If they they do so, they are detrimentally affecting your in-game experience and literally taking money out of your pocket. I don't care if it's .05 cent. That doesn't sound like good customer service to me. Or are we back to, "they are not the same person" again.

All Linden alts are welcome at Happywood Acres (NW corner of Olive) where they will find a friendly non-judgemental atmosphere. Be sure to rate me while you're there.

<rushes in>..ok..<huff huff> i know im late...all i have to say is, if im taking to a Linden employee, i want to KNOW they are a Linden employee...< runs back out the door>

MAERL! Bring those elbows back here!

LL is a company made up of individuals, as are most companies. Each individual does not represent the company as a whole, thats why we have public relations officers, ceo's and accountants. Because business has many facets. The Lindens are unique individuals (at least Im assuming they're not all wired together via some sort of advanced military hive-mind tech but I could be wrong).

The thing that actually *hooked* me on SL was the fact that the moderators were actual HUMANS and not mindless customer service automotons. For people who have played other online games with 18 hou waiting lines and moderators with pre scripted automated responses know how frustrating this is. I know Jeff, I know David, Phoenix and Nova and Lee and Michael and testerd67836 or whatever his current incarnation is. Do I KNOW them? No, no more then I know anyone in SL, but I recognize them as *people* and that endears me to Second Life, I do not view them as mindless extensions of a blind company who doesn't care about their customers.

One of the side-effects of this extremely close and wonderful relationship with people and not autonmous "moderators" is that some of us find it difficult to seperate them from OUR experience in SL, theyre a part of the world, not just overseers. Let me present a scenario: "A dude works at McBurgers... he gets free meals because he works there. Some customer complains that this guy out of uniform gets free food and he doesn't... when the manager explains he works there, the man calms down, thats reasonable. When the employee bilks the company out of food and cash for his friends does he get in trouble? of course he does because there are things in place to prevent that." The same situation exists for LL's employees.

Another small thing to remember is... while the lindens are pretty good at what they do, but theyre just people, there are a LOT of players on par with the lindens in skill in scripting, building, and texturing. I'm friends with a lot of them too.
The fact is the Lindens are not allowed to do certain things with their alts... in fact it's probably a non negotiable requirement of employment at LL.

I wouldn't worry half as much about a linden risking their job (which Im sure pays fairly well) to make some stupid land deals or actively attempt to "undermine" players, It's just silly. If I were worried I'd be more worried about all the uber-skilled non lindens out there who are completely unaffected by this thread and are currently kicking ass in the standings and getting better then me by the minute while Im sitting in the forums worried about conspiratorial half-logic.

ROFL
yes... lets ban the Lindens... thats the easiest solution... then if they do create another alt they'll auomatically know that they should re-ban themselves and ban any future alts they make.

Hey it makes as much sense as anything else in this thread

Again, Spider.

It's the perception.

When you purchase a new CD player and find that it doesn't work properly and it has to be returned to the company -- are you angry at the company -- or the individual who put in the malfunctioning part?

Reputation can make or break a company. The reputation is created by the individuals who are hired as employees.

You see black.

I see white.

And many here may see gray areas that they will watch closely.

Again, I don't want to stop the Linden's from playing and enjoying a game that they've created and love to experience.

A fine and recent example of hiring an "in-game" individual for staff is Brilliant software hiring Furor as their quest developer -- Furor led one of the highest-rated guilds in EQ, Fires of Heaven. He worked his website so that it received 100K in individual hits per day -- he not only took Sony and the development staff to task weekly -- he shoved the faults that he found with the software down Sony's throat so deeply that the developer's couldn't sit for a week.

When the competition hired him, he had to give up something that he really loved to do. But in no way, shape or form could Brilliant allow him to correspond with his guild and mass followers on his forum, not even to announce or explain his new position with Brilliant. He couldn't even make the announcement himself -- another forum had to announce it from information received from Brilliant. It's called ethics.

Accusations of cheats, hacks, favouritism would be intolerable, especially for a newly developed game about to come out of Beta.

Brilliant marketing in Beta, brilliant marketing in hiring a vocal "gamer" who proved he knew his game, what gamers want, and one who wasn't afraid to speak his mind to do so.

Out of his work "in-game" -- he was offered a once-in-a-lifetime position -- creating CONTENT for a game. As a matter of fact, Vanguard also had Furor in their sites to design quests for their software.

Cheers to Brilliant for hiring the "in-game gamer" -- cheers to Furor for creating a position for himself based on his knowledge of the game. And cheers to Brilliant for having the ethics in place to counteract any, and I mean any, thought of ethics violation now or in the future.

It's all a game, afterall, isn't it?

Reference Link on the hiring and the player's reaction:

http://fohguild.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=11330&perpage=15&pagenumber=2

Applauds Lynn!

The appearance of impropriety can break a company. If anyone blindly believe that LL's or the Liaisons can do no wrong then they are sadly mistaken. Given the right circumstances anyone is capable of doing wrong.

*sorry for the edit multi tasking a billion things again

9 times out of ten, you are angry at the person who "allowed" you to buy the cd player in the first place.

Working a hellish job in retail has proven to me that if you are the only face that the customer has seen related to their crappy product, it is your fault, and by God, you better fix it.

LF

You've made my point again -- employees and company names are one in the same.

I was speaking on warranty issues.

Actually if he was a retailer at a store selling the product, he is NOT part of the company, but getting shit on any way.