Officer Resigns? LL employeees

Cat,

I personally don't believe *any* Linden, pre or post beta would ever do anything to ruin what they've created here in SL.

Robin stated in the now-known rules for alt accounts that they are not permitted to transfer money to IGE and to GOM; and i'm pretty sure that before inviting those companies to deal within SL that internally those thoughts of consideration were discussed and notified to the employees.

As far as the leader boards and developer awards go -- I'm pretty sure that LL would shoot themselves in the foot before awarding any amounts to a LL employee.

Don't be worried about "financial gain" within the game by any of the alternative accounts. Think of it on the positive side that the employees/Liasons really really enjoy SL and the individuals they find here. After all, creative minds love SL -- including the creative minds who create this software.

Cat, you were never one to worry about ratings, developer awards, land barons, etc. Don't worry about the alternative accounts trying to take anything away from any of the individuals who play.

JV you posted against the rules for alt av's. Your kind of all over the place here and I no longer know how to respond to you in this thread or the other one.

Cath

well, catherine, i guess the question is, with the restrictions in place, do you feel there are adequate contols that would allow employees to play the game normally?

rather than focus the discussion on moot points, lets discuss the current restrictions and how that may or may not protect residents from abuse.

I am interested in your opinions, and I want to hear from both sides of this controversy. My post in this thread was to discourage speculation about people's identities. I'd prefer to explore this topic in a way that doesn't violate the TOS.

Lynn; Your right again. Didn't give to bits about ratings ect. Just opened them selves up to a whole lot of questions and concerns. I just see all these little things changing and making me question things. Honestly I keep thinking "great here we go again" when I hear something new like this. As Tcoz so eloquently put it; what prompted LL's to disclose this information in a public forum. I too find it hard to believe that Ms. Apple’s statements prompted so much attention. Makes those statements seem more valid. Of course this raised a red flag with me. So some have been privy to this information before. Really, and who divulged that information, and why? You see this did nothing but open a can of worms. In all honestly I am not all that concerned with it, its how business is done. Yes its slimy but its just business as usual. I am content with knowing the rules are in place to avoid anything inappropriate in the future.

Cath

Cat,

You're right to question. You are a part of SL as anyone else here. Always, always question. But let's work on forming the right questions now that the information is known to everyone.

Sometimes when information like that is posted, it's a shock, and the first reaction is a gut reaction. Those we keep inside until further information is available, or post here on the "Rant" forum. With your heart on your sleeve, it just comes right out here in the forum. Which isn't a bad thing, it's just that some don't recognize it as a knee-jerk reaction from the heart. Remember, creative individuals are also passionate individuals.

I've got a lot more questions right now than I have answers; I'm just waiting to see the final informative post from the Linden's.

Bel; First of all Thank you, I respect and admire your opinions.

The current rules as I see them do cover the regular residents to a point. I do see one flaw in the equation, right off the bat.

Land:
As we all know a lot of land is currently held by the Lindens, is there anything in place to prevent them from selling part of that land to a resident that they happen to “like”. Or even a personal account that they hold, or a relative of a LL employee.

I have questioned pieces of land I have seen in the past owned by a Linden and for sale to one person the price was being sold for a little profit. The land was not that big. I thought it odd at the time.

This does not include Auction land sold for $L1 or $L0 that we have all seen.

Cath

Absolutly Lynn, damn my passion! LOL

Sorry folks I am guilty of knee jerk reactions I am a very open person and talk straight from the heart always. Then again I am an honest sole as well. Of course these traits often cost me but what the hell I only have one person to be true to me.

sooo... lets talk about some things within the newly announced LL rules and some things not covered within them.
Cath

So you're saying, in this scenario, a LL employee operating as a Linden, sets the land for sale to his alt-av or to a buddy with the intention of grabbing prime real estate that would ordinarily be available to residents?

Hmm..well it seems that it's covered in spirit by "- you cannot transfer L$ into your alt account ", but maybe it should be explicitly stated as well. "- you cannot transfer linden land to your alt account " That seems reasonable.

A chance at what? Those things are already forbidden to Linden alts. We aren't in competition with Lindens. This is a nonissue.

No, I'm merely copying you. I have no right to know personal information about you. You have no right to know personal information about me. I have no right to know personal information about any Lindens. You have no right to know personal information about any Lindens.

Yet you're asking for that info. So I'm merely copying you.





For someone who takes people at face value, you sure do assume the absolute WORST about the very polite and helpful Lindens.



Who in the WORLD is "allowing them to break the current rules"?

You replied to Jonathon VonLenard's post about how players have far surpassed most of what the Lindens have ever created, but you MISSED the point that PLAYERS tend to create much more complex and detailed work than Lindens do. Go back and read it again.





YES! Duh! What would you do if you were to suddenly see Stage 4 sold off to Edck56?! You'd NOTICE, would you not? I mean, hell, Linden land doesn't just up and get SOLD every day, ya know! Not only would you notice, but I'd notice, and most of the other Lindens would notice, and Edck56 would probably get the land taken away from him again, and the Linden in question would get fired.

Duh. Think things through a bit before you ask a question like that... Could any Linden HONESTLY get away with selling a very publicly visible area of land to another user? Maybe for five minutes or so, before someone else took notice. After that, poof, problem solved!

Catherine, you're over-reacting. It's not like Lindens have the ability to jump into your AV and make them do things. It's not like the Lindens are going to suddenly up and start stealing all your land and selling it to themselves. They're not going to drain your bank account. They're not going to delete all your objects. They're not going to send electrical pulses down the line and fry your computer. Ok?

I'm going to use kid gloves once more, and then the electrical imp in me is going to send "pulses" down your modem.

We've already discussed the gut instinct and gut reaction. You're a little late, and way off.

And if you would have read Cat's post -- it's not about selling "Linden" land -- her question was raised on their alternative account(s) holding and selling land.

BTW, I have a really nice replica of Stage 4 for sale, it's out in Lime -- would you be interested? I can promise you a great discount.

I read this as 'Linden Owned Land'. How is it not?



Honestly, Cath, it was just process of deduction, for me. Say you make an amazing outfit (edit: Or... great... furniture. Or whatever it is you do). Wouldn't you want to use it from time to time? The Lindens created the bestest virtual world to-date. How could they NOT want to play in it like normal people?

Yes Bel exactly.

Cath

Moletroll

Duh! I am not responding to such an insulting post. Do not continue to put words in my mouth. I am questiong the policy not the ppl personaly DUH.

Well then why do you even have concerns?! The policies, as they've been posted, forbid everything you're concerned about.

lifes too short I dont have time to feed the Moletrolls

No, seriously. What is your reason for posting this thread? Do you want something to change? Do you want the restrictions lifted? More put on?

So far you've got all these worries listed, but you haven't said what you WANT.

Mole correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this the RANTS forum apparently I posted to RANT. Yes Seriously.

I really, really don't get "when they are on their alts they are people just like everybody else".

By the same right, I should be able to start two toons. One will be a a horrid griefer, the other a model of SL TOSedness. I should never ever worry about being banned for the actions of Grieferbomb Lastname...because after all, when I'm on Goody2Shoes Lastname, I'm a different person, with no relation to GrieferBomb Lastname at all. And if anybody learns of the association, they can't tell anybody, because it would be a TOS violation, AND they are in the wrong for assuming that there is any spillover at all. Because, like it says here, different AV = different person. This is apparenlty the logic at hand, since these conversations are sparked by the alleged griefing actions of a handful of Linden alts. Saying "Soandso Linden has an alt named Blahblah Altking that griefed me" will get you banned. But saying, "Grimmy Moonflower has a toon named Slimmy, so look out!" is aok. Just read the boards.

All things equal? Nay. Please stop trying to sell the fact that simply by logging in a different AV you are no longer the same person with the same obligations. And what's to prevent these alts, and the people they group with in world, from defending this position on the boards?

Nobody is actually saying *that* Tcoz. What we are saying is, *particularly* since a lot of them now were players first probably, that they still have a right to enjoy the game they work so hard to keep running, without it beign spoiled by people acting like they are a linden with full Linden-Fu Powers (TM) when they are just trying to relax and enjoy the game.

Myself, I support this 100%. It's *good* when the staff of a game enjoy playing the game. I've been in MMORPG's where that was (as far as anyone could tell) *not* the case, and it's never a Good Thing (TM) in the long run.

No Reit. That is exactly what people are saying. Read the boards.

It also does not explain why it is acceptable to announce an alt of a standard player on the boards when they do wrong, but pretty much a crime to mention the alt of a Linden that is perceived to be doing wrong. It's a double standard, proven by the frequent citing of player alts on the board, and the clear warnings regarding doing so for Linden alts.

I've got nothing against the people that work for LL enjoying the game. But they are NOT regular players, period. If the actions of their alts become interesting enough that they attract that sort of notice, then they probably need to review their playing habits in light of the policies posted by Robin, and people should not be penalized for saying, "hey, aren't you a Linden? Wtf is all this?"

Though I agree with you on most of this, Lindens probably do have the ability to jump in your Av and make it do things, another online game I play the sysop can gain access to any of the characters (this is for bug verifcation and such) but they can do it.

JV

Actually Tcoz, the reason its not allowed to say that an Av is also a linden is because it by default says where they work which is a violation of the CS and TOS. But a regular person if you say their alt does not indicate where they work.

"Privacy
Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regards to their Second Lives. While privacy rights in a virtual space are perhaps even more complex than those in the physical world, we are committed to working with the community to protect against invasions of your privacy. We fully expect in-world privacy guidelines to evolve with the Second Life community. Examples of privacy invasion in violation of SL Community Standards include:
Disclosure by one resident of real-life information about another resident unless that information is listed on the Resident's profile. This includes but is not limited to gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location. "

JV

"I really, really don't get "when they are on their alts they are people just like everybody else".

By the same right, I should be able to start two toons. One will be a a horrid griefer, the other a model of SL TOSedness. I should never ever worry about being banned for the actions of Grieferbomb Lastname...because after all, when I'm on Goody2Shoes Lastname, I'm a different person, with no relation to GrieferBomb Lastname at all. And if anybody learns of the association, they can't tell anybody, because it would be a TOS violation, AND they are in the wrong for assuming that there is any spillover at all. Because, like it says here, different AV = different person. This is apparenlty the logic at hand, since these conversations are sparked by the alleged griefing actions of a handful of Linden alts. Saying "Soandso Linden has an alt named Blahblah Altking that griefed me" will get you banned. But saying, "Grimmy Moonflower has a toon named Slimmy, so look out!" is aok. Just read the boards.

All things equal? Nay. Please stop trying to sell the fact that simply by logging in a different AV you are no longer the same person with the same obligations. And what's to prevent these alts, and the people they group with in world, from defending this position on the boards? "

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Tcoz, I don't get how ppl can even suggest such a thing is "ok" then again I have read things in the last couple of days that realy made do a double take. I keep telling myself that only a small percentage of residents realy read the boards so this is not the norm. Its absurd to say some of which I have read is "alright with the majority" not only are some of these things against most company policies but what some are suggesting is anything but ethical.

Alt-Lindens have several obvious advantages over average joe resident. The main one being; If I created a game or helped to create a game I know the ins and outs of it, I know the cheat codes, the easter eggs, the bugs and the exploits Where I dont know them, I have the average joe resident telling me where they are. Not to mention the fact that I get a pay check directly from LL's. Its absurd to me to even suggest that Alt-Lindens have the same perks as average Joe resident. They already have ALL the perks.

Why this is so difficult for some to grasp realy makes me wonder about the intellect of some players.

A lot of damage could be done by alt av's. Your example was a damn good one. I have concerns about linden land abuses myself. As far as I know, because we have not seen any information to the contrary, a Linden could sell off their land to thier Alt-Linden accounts.

Hell yes I have suggested the possiblilies of coruption from within. Only because there is obviously the current system allows for it.

Rules and laws only keep honest ppl honest.

Cat

Ok, so...say, I publish my real world location in alt 1's profile. Then somebody on the board sings about my alt 2, which does not have this info in the profile. TOS violation by proxy? You seem to indicate so. Because if you say, so and so is a linden alt, you are not stating any info about that alt, other than it is an alt of a linden. But by proxy, you are providing possibly personal info. I could actually use this position to my advantage...publish my age in my main AV and then cry TOS every time somebody refers to an alt.

Either ALL references to alts are forbidden, or none of them. Or is that a benefit of being a Linden/Linden alt? Probably not intentionally...

Btw none of this implies deliberate malicious behavior or internal corruption...it's possible that these lines can be crossed entirely accidentally. That's what the policies regarding admin alts prevents.