Telehub in the new continent -- yay or nay?

I'm all for leaving the new continenent telehub free. It should be interesting to see the dynamic of how these sims grow and expand in ways that will certainly be different than the mainland.

I wonder if some innovative entrepreneur will create a Intercontinental Ferry Service from Periwinkle to the new lands?

- Ace

thats exactly what will happen, and I hope it does. It would be cool for newbies too, seeing how they have to work together with other people to get something done.

i bet the land in Periwinkle is the most expensive in SL atm lol

Since there have been a couple hotline posts on this subject, and one land-management post over the last couple days - I thought I'd give this thread a little bumpety-bump

I do kind of like the residential zoning idea however if this is the way it is going to be, it was a very serious mistake not to let the people who have bought land out there BEFORE the bought it. People buy land under certain expectations. I already see a few businesses out there that will be negatively impacted by the lack of telehubs.

I like the idea of trying to keep an area more residential, but putting the land up for sale and then later on making the decision not to include in the most used form of travel in SL is a poor idea. These are the sorts of things that affect a persons decision to buy land in a sim. If this how the new continent is going to be, I'd suggest letting the potential buyers of land out there before they make any more purchases under the false impression that things will progress, at there home, as they do everywhere else in SL.

I somewhat disagree, Vince. The discussion in regards to Telehubs in the new continent didn't begin today - in fact, soon after the new sims appeared, debate over whether telehubs should be present there started. Anyone who was looking at purchasing land there had the opportunity to participate in the discussion - and many of them did. Very early on, it was evident that at least the *posibility* existed that there might be no telehubs in the new continent.

If there were telehubs on the new continent to begin with, and then LL decided to take them away - I'd think the landowners would have much to gripe about. But never have we known when or where a telehub goes in before it appears. If I'm not mistaken, there are places on the main continent today that are 900m or more from a telehub.

If its first land - all first land can be sold for more than what it costs the newbie to purchase it from LL. And if its not first land - I would think a more experienced player would do research on the land before buying.

Just my opinion, of course

Travis,

Most people don't participate in the forums, or even read them. The forums aren't for everyone and many avoid them like the plague (let's just say that the forums are often perceived as a place where massive dramas are undertaken .... and they often are). People play SL to enjoy themselves, not to get into forum wars, so they don't go to the forums.

I spoke with Robin Linden and was told that, unfortunately, the forums were the only source of feedback available to the Lindens and I was encouraged to try and start some sort of homeowners association. Robin acknowleged that the forums were only used by a fraction of the SL population and asked for a more direct information source from the people actually being impacted by any telehub decisions. I have spoken to several residents and, quite frankly, they don't believe me that there aren't any plans to open a telehub. They purchased the land with the expectation that these sims would be handled like any others and they had absolutely no reason to believe otherwise.

So I intend to start an organization to let the actual landowners there have a say in the fate of their land. This should never have been decided by forum user consensus.....

But... the REST of the world (all 500 sims of it) is the exact same... telehubs every kilometer, clubsinoalls all along the sides of the telehubs, with shops everywhere else.

Why make something potentially unique the same as everything else?

LF

After talking with Robin some more, it sounds like it is not the intention for this land to be without telehub access. The plan seems to be to have less telehubs, which is fine with me. I just don't want the land to be so isolated as to make it a poor place to have decided to make a land purchase. There was never any notice that this would be an overly isolated area, it was just put up for sale like everything else. I think having fewer telehubs will make it more residential, but the idea of preserving it as some sort of unique frontier pretty much ended when it went up for sale.

I have no problem with having fewer telehubs there and perhaps rail service! That sounds great! I still intend to start a landowner's association so that the will of the people that actually own land there is heard. I'll say it again, forum consensus is hardly representative of the people affected by decisions made about the new continent.

Shops and casinos are already there. Soon to be followed by clubs...

How about a go between?

Hub at the Oil rig?

I seem to have so many problems getting across there due to lag near the current nearest TP and i think the oil rig will give many a bit of a distance to travel but will also stop all the builds around the telehub....

as some one who who has many shops near telehubs I wholeheartedly believe that there should be no telehubs in the new Continent. when i first saw it on the map I immediately went there traversing the ocean through the narrow one sim corridor. it was an amazing experience flying over the oil rig and looking on in disbelief how wonderful it looked i thought to my self what a wonderful world this is. i then proceeded on to the main land mass and flew over it looking on in disbelief on how wondrous it was also. To see the shallow waters of the east the mountains to the west and all of the beautiful space in between and the trains omg the trains were so awesome. i remember watching one for about 10 min and flying along with it thinking how cool this was.
now had there been a telehub on the Continent i most certainly would of missed alot of what i saw on my journey over the Continent. and i think that it will give the citizens of second life a new perspective on what second life is and can be.

*huggers*
crucial amritage
of crucial creations
makers of the famous air brushed jeans
visit my shop in gamma to see the air brused jeans

Hello

I would like to raise issue that I haven't seen here yet in regards the lack of telehubs in the north.

I think the voting on this issue should be restricted to newbies only!

This may sound radical but the problem is affecting newbies *more* than anyone else. As a newbie, you only have "firstland" as a real choice. You *have* to buy it on the northern continent, and you *have* to make this your "home" to be even able to get there reliably.

This sucks obviously. For me I have all my friends in the south. All the places I go are in the south. I waited for almost two weeks before buying, trying to find *anything* but the northern continent.

I have rented a place in the south just so I dont have to go up there all the time. but that is extra money. As a premium user I should have the rights and access of other users before me. Why am I penalised as newbie who just happened to join just before new continent was put in?

What if I dont *want* quiet dorky PG sim to live in? what if I *want* to go back and forth all the time? Should I not have a choice in the matter? Without setting your property in the north to "home" it takes 10 to 15 minutes in RL to fly up there sometimes!

Why cant the Lindens give people up there a long distance tp for their house if they dont want to put a public one in?

Finally ...
We all know that there will be a telehub *someday*. This is just self evident.
Why do I have to fly painfully around for months until enough newbies are up here to swing vote my way? Telehubs are basic amenities like light power and ability to fly.

Seems to me if there are so many "oldies" that are keen to relax in the "quiet" northern continent then trade some of your vast land holdings to me and I will give you my little square.

Dianne Mechanique


PS - Apolgies for tone of htis post. This is the closest I got to angry since I got to SL.

Everything else is great but this decision is FOOLISH and NOT FAIR at all IMO. Even though a vote was taken, how about the fact that many of us do not know about the fourms? I only found out about these two days ago. What about all the people who are frustrated and dont even know that ther is an "issue" let alone a vote. it should be announced as voting issue to all who own land in north.

I would like to point out the obvious logical flaw in this. Which is that most buyers in the north are newbies, in fact as a newbie, you are basically *forced* to buy land up there. And as a newbie, even a fast learner like myself, you do not necessarily know about the telehub "discussion."

I only found out about the forums themselves two days ago, and I am not stupid, just did not bother to think about whether they existed. I did not know about this issue even though I waited a week and a half to buy hoping for anythign *but* the north.

Also, the "vote" on the forum about the telehub issue is specious because it is only open to forum posters who *happen* to know that the forum exists, and also *happen* to know that there is an issue about telehubs. I bet there are a whole lot of frustrated land owners in the north at this moment who know nothing of any of these issues and whose voice is not being heard.

IMO if such a major game-affecting descion as this is going to be made it should be a free vote by *everyone* in the north continent, with full disclosure of pros and cons before hand. Either that or newbies who bought land in the north should be given some kind of opt-out option or something.

THis totally wrecks the game for me currently, having to fly up to "dorky northern continent of recluses" every night.

This is such a very good point, thank you for making it so eloquently, Dianne. Look at that, out of around 30,000 active SL users, 219 people have voted in this poll, mostly oldbies who know how to use forums, and people want to call it some sort of community decision that we have no telehubs on a major SL region? This seems rather short-sighted, IMHO.

But, I also suspect that the Lindens will wait and collect information from the owners of the land up there as to whether or not they want telehubs. So, if you own land in the new northern continent, let the Lindens know how you feel about telehubs; send Robin Linden an email, private forum message or IM about it, since she has discussed it on forums in the Hotline to Linden in this post.

Why thank you Beryl <blush>

I have just thought of another point as well. One good argument *against* the telehub is that it promotes urban sprawl and stores and crowding etc. The unspoken "backside" to that argument is (I suspect) something to do with sex and people wanting a more TSO kind of experience in the north.

I would point out again the illogical nature of these kinds of arguments. If one looks, one will see that the area at the bottom of the north continent is already getting built up for the exact same reasons that the area around a telehub would get built up.
Because it is a traffic bottleneck.

All those that dont watn the hub because of the nightclubs and sex stores or even just general busines and traffic, will see *exactly* the same thing happen at the bottom of the continent as would happen if the telehub was put in.

Why not just put one in?
One simple hub in the dead centre of the continent. The "city" build up around that and all the TSO's can relax in the PG wooded areas and do thier gardening.

Pretending that we are taking a natural or "hands-off" attitude to growth and letting the continent develop naturally is a bit dis-engenious. The whole place is sculpted and heavily planned. It is simply a descision of where the development is wanted. Eventually the whole north will look like the south anyway unless great pains are taken to steer people around.

Dianne has made an excellent point. It's not all newbies forever, of course, but just those newbies who happened to join when the only first land was in the New Continent.

Now there is land to be found down south on the old continent, but still, the point holds.

I find it appalling that the oldbies who slam me for pointing to poll results -- they are interesting straw polls -- are willing to accept this poll because it suits them.

And Robin should know better than to claim that "2/3 of the people" were for this, given the alting, gaming, FICing etc that goes on.

How many of those are landowners on that sim? Or even prospective land owners?

That's why I formed New Continent Pioneers to illustrate that there are landowners, including some major ones, who are FOR the telehubs. All of us in the group were for at least one, at the Moth Temple. And some, but not all, are for more to appear.

I quite understand the concern about blight, congestion, etc. by telehubs. But the challenge is to turn them around and make them better. LL can auction off smaller pieces and perhaps even have an auction involving "only one per customer" to encourage more small businesses. Of course land barons might still game this, but it's just a suggestion. It's very hard to get started in, and stay in, business in this game.

I think Linden Labs should not be making decisions based on straw polls on the forums, and continuing to hark to "2/3 respondents" in all their public pronouncements. Nor should easily gamed "direct democratic votes" count either. They need to listen to the community, but also have their own common sense and their own business plan.

Right now, loads of NC land isn't selling! It's not just because it's too expensive. It will sell better when they get transportation. Last time I looked the Linden train was falling into a ditch, when it wasn't racing across the dunes into the ocean. The other "public" private train is barely adequate, confusing to use, selective in drop-offs ,and raises troubling questions about private players reaping the rewards of public transportation.

Outlaw taxicabs. Private companies shouldn't be allowed to provide transport services. Outlaw privately owned ferrys and airlines too while your at it.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I'm happy to have private companies. I hope to have one myself someday. Let a thousand private taxi cab, jitney, ricksaw, boats, and donkeys bloom.

What I object to is when residents masquerade their stunt as some kind of "public do-gooder" operation when all they are doing is posing as public transportation, using private land -- and using it to suck up the masses of dwell we rightly will come to except with a well-functioning public system, and using it to get traffic into their home depot type store.

That's reasonable -- you shouldn't get to masquerade as something "public" then get dwell and traffic.

I'm for them doing one of two things:

-- if they want to posture as being public and selfless, let them attach the land to the Explorers Group and let the dwell circulate equally to every member. Anyone can join and collect a little dwell.

--since they are selflessly letting their land be used for a public purpose, let other vendors have spots on this land, too, and charge whatever they can charge for services, or also become sub-sets of the selfless ones, making groups that recirculate dwell, etc.

OR

-- making it an explicitly commercial operation that has exploited land happening to be in the path of the train, and commercially profited by that. I'm all for private transporation. Let them then feel the heat of the public if the public feels they've become trolls on the public waterways and byways.

What I do hope will happen, though is that Ryan Linden, who owns a good chunk of Purple, as a Linden, will be persuaded to move his house, and let that space be the train station for the public. If they want to add to it auctioned off vendor spaces, or lotteried vendor spaces like Luna, so be it.

Or just leave it as Gov Linden land, and have a railroad that hooks up to other Gov Linden land over in the New Continent. That's what I hope they will do, to stop the appearance of one player or group of players getting to play selfless public transit providers when all they do is suck dwell and traffic to their store.

First you will have to give me concrete examples of the "masquerading". Presently, I see your labeling of privately held transporatation systems as a personal agenda due to your sour grapes concerning the point where the lindens chose to connect the new continent to the old. Convince me otherwise and I will read the rest of your post.

All these concrete examples are discussed in other threads, look them up.

I don't have any sour grapes about anything, I work on my business and TP people to my new continent areas if they have trouble.

Those who started the train station, or allowed it to be on their land, neglected to tell the little details like a) they scoop up all the dwell and b) they herd traffic to their store right there next to it LOL. Just some little details. Bah.

I see the train no differently than I see a mall. They both deserve the dwell. What is so wrong with them receiving dwell? Are you pro-capitalism or not? Just when it suits your grand vision? "Sucking" in people to shop is wrong for a train, but right for any other method?

I will not look them up, if they even exist. You are the one making the claims, the responsibility to back them up lies with you.

1st - the land was divided and set to the Explorer's Group when it was first separated. Anyone in that group benefits from the dwell. The group is open to anyone! Best learn to check things out before you open your mouth and insert your foot.

2nd - Nobody has to use the transport system we have there. Last I checked, I do believe you have a teleport in the Northern Continent.

3rd - I for one am tired of someone masquerading as the all ethic king/queen of the world and the protector of such and is quick to jump on others for what he/she doesn't believe lives up to his/her standards. Just wondering if this person is the almighty authority on ethics ....why then is there no post in the builders beware post...complaining about how things can be copied so easily and then pawned off as their own works! Maybe copying someone else's work and then pawning it as their own is ok with this masquerader!



Have a great day!

Because said Ethics King doesn't like no mod no copy stuff. He is probably giggling knowing that people can dupe stuff. But he is all for capitalism by George! It's just another in a long list of self contradictions made by the Great Pretender.

Um, you did that after I complained. In fact, remember at one point when you rashly suggested that you'd give ME all the dwell? Or charity? or whatever? go read your old posts LOL.

Glad you're doing the right thing now. If in fact you did the right thing from the very beginning, then shoot me, I'm wrong. But you didn't as far as I could tell, and you even rashly offered to give me all the dwell LOL.



Um, guess what. You can't get there from here. The IRIS telehub works fine for the north. But if I sit in Iris and press on Columbia. I get bounced over to Purple, and then have to fly to Columbia, and use your train. Or struggle with sim seams.

3rd - I for one am tired of someone masquerading as the all ethic king/queen of the world and the protector of such and is quick to jump on others for what he/she doesn't believe lives up to his/her standards. Just wondering if this person is the almighty authority on ethics ....why then is there no post in the builders beware post...complaining about how things can be copied so easily and then pawned off as their own works! Maybe copying someone else's work and then pawning it as their own is ok with this masquerader!

There's enough people concerned about copyright, including the Lindens, big-time, that I don't have to work that beat. It's a legitimate beat, just doesn't require my input.

I'd prefer to focus on land right issue and society issues and groups. And public transport is an important feature of any world and I"m right to question any individual who seizes it for personal gain, and ask whether it might be better either to have it truly public, i.e. also not providing a big traffic windfall for your store (I notice you say NOTHING about that issue ROLF), and that it might be better for you to quit the pose that you are the friend to man and the public transiter and at least let the public see you as what you are, a lucky oldbie that got old money coloured sim to perch your business on, in order to get more business. That I can understand.

Then we can ask the Lindens to compete with this by putting genuine pubic transit on Ryan's land (I take it as a Linden he isn't a private person in this game). And we can raise issues about making the private land also commercially available to others.

This isn't personal. It's about any normal society and how you handle public transit in it.

You think this is a favour bank society that rewards old players and enterprising players who grab land in the traffic route. And I'm saying that's no good any more if you want to open up the tekki wiki club and have more of a real place with a million people in it.