Racism only if your caucasian?

Is it considered racist to be proud to be caucasian in this new world? Almost everyone I talk to seems to think so. If I even mention white pride I am immediatley labeled a neo nazi or a biggot and a racist. Why can others be proud of there race and continue to do so with protection from agencies like the NAACP or ADL yet I have nothing to protect my pride in who I am or how I came into the world. Why can other equal human beings of a diffent skin color or nationality have clubs in schools or universities when I can not. I was raised up to believe we are all equal in the eyes of god, but the deeper I dig the more I feel hypocrisy has taken hold of me and everyone around me. I seek enlightenment on a matter where none can be found I suppose.

It makes no sense to me either, Foster. I lived in a low-income home when I grew up. There was no Caucasion College Fund I could turn to.

anyone want to take bets on how long this thread stays open =\

Oh, God.

The reason is simple.

It is the dark-skinned races, particularly Afican and Afro-American who have existed in a state of oppression for a very long time, and still experience it.

The reason so-called 'white pride' is in fact racist is that the caucasians have a strong culture, and have no need of any demonstration of pride. The only motive behind a demonstration of 'white pride' is to affirm their imagined superiority. But people who are oppressed do have a need to affirm their identity.

In the UK, Welsh Nationalism is a legitimate political force. This is because the Welsh have been oppressed in the past, and are still sensitive to the economic and social issues this causes.

However, English Nationalism, and parties like the British National Party, are the preserve of thugs and racists.

Your post is unpleasant.

Does this site make you feel better? I hope not.

I posted that link to show you why people who proclaim their "White Pride" are seen as bigots. Keep in mind this is from the horse's mouth, so to speak. Look past the non specific front pages and go to the messageboards. You will see what they are all about.

Just be proud of who you are. Don't see why ANYONE needs to feel proud about their race. That is just the result of random genetics. Instead be proud of what you have accomplished in life.

Any racial "pride" is racist, no matter who it comes from. Seems like a pretty stupid thing to be proud of if you ask me. It's hardly an accomplishment to be born the same race as your parents. People will pat themselves on the back for anything. Why stop there? How about "Blonde people pride day" or "two legged pride day" or "nose in the center of our faces pride day!" pfft. People need to stop celebrating our superficial divisions and join the human race.

Edit: er, what Devilin said... because he types faster than me

I agree with you Chip.

I feel like the FBI is about to come a'knockin' on my door for visiting that site.

Why be proud of a physical attribute over which you had absolutely no influence? You might as well take pride in being circumcised or being bald. Displaying pride over your appearance in a medium which allows you to be virtually any thing or any colour is at best silly and at the worst it is disdaining and rejecting others simply because of how they look, and that is racism, pure and simple.

This kind of question reminds me of an old joke about a little kid who asks why there is a Mother's day and a Father's day and a Grandparent's day, but there is never a Children's day. The answer is every day is Children's day!

Same goes for race, at least here in the US of A. Chris Rock tells a great joke about how if a white guy with all sorts of disabilities was given a shot at a perfect body and lots of money, but the condition was he had to be black. The guy said he would ride his troubles out, thank you very much.

Bald Pride

'White Pride' is also a buzzphrase used by the white supremacist movement. Since virtually nobody else uses it, you shouldn't be too surprised when people assume you're a neo-nazi or other stripe of white supremacist when you use their terms.

It's sort of like being surprised when people think you're an antisemite when you refer to jews as 'zionist pigs' or when people think you're homophobic when you refer to anything you don't like as 'gay.'

There is a stigma attached to being proud of being "white" - imho - because of two reasons - at either end of the human psycho-socal moral-intellectual spectrum.

1. Everyone wants to be recognized as an individual - but, being an individual means that you might accidentally interfere with someone else's rights to their own actions wrt expressing their individuality.

2. Most people crave social relationships. Membership in groups is part of that. Being a member of a group is usually associated with some sort of feel-good aspect including privileges and/or recognition by others as a result of that membership- otherwise known as status. That status can come from within the group or from outside the group. Thus, mere membership provides something that is not a result of effort, it just is - a freebie.
--If being a member of a particular group/race brings privilege and status, then those not in that group may positively or negatively publicly recognize that fact. On the positive side, the "privileges" of the group may be used as a goad to spur their own actions as a means of refuting the "privilege"/status of those in the group... but without belittling the group. Negatively.. well, no point in detailing that except to say that it involves reactions spurred by jealousy, feelings of oppression (real or imagined), social aggression and other anti-social behavior by those not part of "the group".

So, people want something for nothing, status and belonging, and others may be jealous of people actually "getting"/having that.

Of course "white pride" would be an anathema to those not "white" in American society. It's unavoidable based on the socio-cultural history of the US. Whites are seen as more successful - and the claims, real and imagined in terms of support, are mostly that whites have systematically, as a group (consciously and not) prevented other groups (races) from obtaining those prvilieges "associated with being white".

This argument was first put forth, interestingly enough, not by myself, but by a black scholar who wrote a book on Ebonics. Unfortunately, his name escapes me right now.

Edited to add: I believe that were the "dominant" race/ethnicitiy in America anything other than "white/Caucasian", and if the history attributed to "whites" were attributed the this other race, then "white power" and "white pride" would be socially acceptable in the same way that "Black/Hispanic/whatever pride" is acceptable in American society today.

I had a civil (as not arguing or fighting) conversation with the leader of a white "pride" supremacist group once.

I asked him "Your group spits hate towards Latin Americans as well as other groups, are you aware that Latin Americans are not a racial group, but simply united because of a common language?"

Well, he proceeded to give me several reasons why Latin Americans are not "white". I asked him if he was aware that the majority of Nazi escapees settled in several South American countries because of the "Aryan" makeup of their population. Of course, he didn't and I could not convince him of the fact.

To me, that conversation proved what I knew all along...



Humans are very tribalistic. They love identifying and belonging to a group. If it isn't about color, it is about something else; politics, religion, sex, body shape...

And, in their quest of being part of the group, they will believe all the qualities they are told the group has, and ignore the obvious shortcomings. And of course, their group is always superior to all others.

In America, race is the main factor. In other countries, it is the village you come from, your religion, or your social caste. But when it comes down to it, it is all the same - ignorance and a need to belong.

So what are you? An American? A White Man? A Mexican? A Catholic? ...

Look around and objectively examine the members of your beloved group. Do you really want to be a member? Do you really have so much in common as you think?

Now do the same with a member of another group. You will be surprised you may have many more things in common with them than with someone in your own group.

I personally am ashamed to be a member of the human race...

- T -

I'm proud of being an egg

You know human nature to its core, Tito.
I've always wondered if the "us vs. them" attude among humans was some social genetic thing- where the humans that survived (our distant ancestors) where the ones who protected their own genes by caring for people like themselves (same genes) and distrusting people who were different (in their case, probably next village over.)

Boil down most hate group assumptions and it's the same crap:
that if [group X] isn't stopped, they'll steal "our" stuff, they'll kill "our" men and they'll seduce our women... after all, [group X] only look out for themselves, [group X] are a slobs, pigs etc..."
Of course, this is a bunch of paranoid nonsense.
Go back to the Stone Age, however, and things were different. Back then there was the treat of the next villiage over (or distant invaders) sacking your place, killing the men, stealing your stuff and raping the women. The paranoid, defensive and agressive villages survived. These simplistic fears and notions don't apply to modern times, but there seems to be plenty of paranoid nutjobs out there who are still living in the Stone Age.

That is almost too funny to be truly sad.
I cannot imagine a dog or a fish or a turtle... etc.... being sad about being what they are. As far as we know.... only humans can be ashamed of themselves - and that is absolutely a completely irrational emotion. You may as well wish you were dead for you will never be anything but human - and being so, will be both the same and different from every other human being in the world.

It is indeed quite sad to think that way, but realistic. If a tourist from another planet came to earth and asked me to tell him/her what is so great about the human race, I sure as heck could not come up with anything. Could you?

Ours is a history of barbarism, destruction, violence, hate, and oppresion. Sure there have been individuals throughout history that have done truly good and unselfish deeds, but they are as difficult to find as a needle in a haystack.

So no, even though I personally have what can be considered a good life, I do not like our world and the horrors hundreds of millions must go through on a daily basis. I'll do my time, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

- T -

First I would like to commend Foster for having the fortitude to address such an important, yet as we all know, extremely sensative issue.

To all those who would condem Foster are jump to conclusions might I remind us all that we are the worlds current and future leaders. Everyone one of us here has the potential to change the world, even if unknowingly. This subject will seemingly remain open for debate indefinately. And those with an accertive effort to understand should not be frowned upon and told "don't worry about it, we're all human", as true as this statement may be.

Racism is comparable to a disease, with many symptoms, and a deep rooted psychology that can be traced back to before the begining of homosapiens evolution into an "intelligent" species.

We'll start with why Foster may feel ostrisized when it comes to showing pride in being "white". Personally I feel we should ALL take pride in our heritage, cultures and history.

On one level we have our very own English language that contributes to this problem.
Breifly, we all know, Black per english definition stands for "negativity" and is an accepted English term to describe African-Americans and the like, while "White" has a list of positive conentations and is the term used to describe Caucasians.
Rasicm by definition is the practice of opression of all other races economically, socialogically etc. If this is so, even a black man that hates everyone can't be, by the strictest definition, racist because there is no other race that has been able to effectively oppress and or control all other races with the exception of Caucasians.

Another aspect is to look at what "racial" pride you are trying to expound upon? Wouldn't one want to research and represent thier heritage accurately and scientifically. With that what is the difference between White and Blacks? At it's simplest, the lack of pigmentation. Melanin protects homosapien from harfull effects of UV radiation. With out this would this be considered a defect? Not relative in todays terms, we've technologically advanced to overcome most deficiencies and defects, to the point that we all can lead relatively normal, productive lives. Would one want to trace thier white heratige as far back as possible? Would that lead to the area and time before this genetic defect bacame prominent? Scientifically we have dominant and recessive genes. The latter are attributes of whites, blonde hair, blue eye, etc... Why when mixed with other races the recessive genes generally recess and the offspring aquires dominant features and attributes? So going back far enough in our search we find that possibly white come from the same genetic composition as blacks, as asian, latinos etc... to, maybe Zaire Africa where the oldest bones of a homosapien have been identified and carbon dated. And there weren't many "whites" at this time, simply think what would happen being born in this area and time having to hunt for food in extreme sun and heat and not having the melanin to protect ones self. No SPF 50 and no love from the group = ostritization to...? maybe the Caucaus mountains, ain't but one way to go to get outta Africa without fins.

Currently I am not a fan of how these things are addressed in our society. Black History month. A load of crap!!! What the hell were we doing each of the other 11 months throughout history. Just another bone thrown to get us to STFU.

Sorry for blabbin on last thing. I'll give you a quick example as to why you get the grief when trying to express White Pride. Let's take a person born of White and Black parents. May they partake in your White Pride ideollogy? Let's do some quick wanna be math.

Black + White = Mixed

Mixed person can, and is easily identified as a nigger.
Mixed person is never misconscrued as being White.
Mixed person will never recieve any "benifits" of being White.
Mixed person will recieve the same negative attention as a Black.

Mixed = Black Mixed not = White.

Hope maybe this helped shed a little ligh
t.
Would really like to see this thread as a positve exchange of ideas and insights to a very sensative and important issue. Great testing ground for "Adult Debate"

Please do not take offense to anything I've said, these are just studied observations.

Can't we all just get along?

I can't stand "labels"!!!

I for one worry more about the "human race" as opposed to any particular group of individuals or organization. Humanity is a work in process, an boy oh boy do we still need a lot of work....... Sort of reminds me what my Dad who was drunk off his ass said about all the problems of the world (racism, politics, greed, corruption, ect).........

"Most of humanities problems would be solved if we never came with opposable thumbs".

I wouldn't even try.
I don't have to justify the existence of myself or the entire human race. I don't have to explain it to anyone... that is the beauty of freewill.
As for the "problems" and foibles and "embarassments" of the human history you refer to, I fugure they are what tehy are - a sory of our known existence on the planet. That story is part and parcel of what we are. It also hints at what we could be - both good and bad.
Unlike your realism, I am a cynic, not a pessimist. While I believe better is possible, I don't go looking for it - but I certainly do not only see the negative or the depressing.
Being embarassed about being human - well, that just doesn't make sense to me, even as a mere comment.

I think that people thinking pride in their heritage is racism are just...well...not even going to say but I think its just wrong. I am mixed race and heritage, and one of my heritages and the one I probablly hold most dear is my Jewish heritage. Mainly because of the constant opression, that STILL goes on this very day(as with all groups). The struggle and strength they had is something I greatly admire.

Why is that so wrong? I really would like to know. However, I dont encourage Heritage Months because their are too many and many will be left out. We never learned about Asian heritage month, only African American heritage month. In fact, I didn't even know there was Asian heritage month till I was nineteen.

In sum , pride in your heritage is ok(No matter what race you are, I mean you shouldn't have to be from a line of people who were tortured to be proud of it)

Wait...arn't the Welsh (mostly) white?

Yes, but not all ethnic struggles are drawn along race lines - it is about power and oppression by a majority group.

On the topic at hand, the reason for minority groups to celebrate pride events and associate based on their minority status comes down to not being evenly represented in society overall.

Why is there not white history month? For a very long time in the US, white history month was year round - very little was taught about the history of any group except western Europeans who emigrated to the US.

White Entertainment Television? Again, CBS, ABC, NBC come to mind. Compared to the population as a whole, television is horribly misrepresentative of any group but white people. Some inroads have been made by African Americans, but by and large they tend to be relegated to channels like UPN. There are exceptions to this of course, but television by and large is still very white. Quick, name a television show on a major network with a cast that is not either completely or almost completely white. Not easy to do. CSI?Desperate Housewives? Friends? the Sopranos? Sex and the City? None of the above, and the list goes on and on.

White Miss America? Again, unnecessary, as by and large, you can either leave the word white off and still have the same outcome.

To put it more succinctly, imagine for a moment that you grew up as a white person, except every show you watched on tv had primarily Asian casts. Asian women were the standard of beauty, wealthy schools were filled with all Asian students who had no trouble getting into the colleges of their choice or finding top jobs. Imagine the dolls that your children played with were all Asian, that all of the movies had Asian leads in them or entirely Asian casts. Imagine you were followed around a store by Asian sales people asking if they could help you and making sure you don't steal. Imagine most of your elected representatives were also Asian. Very rarely would you ever see anyone but Asian people ever represented, and it would leave you feeling ostracized. This is a small example of what many non-white people experience in the United States in 2004.

To say that pride events are silly, unnecessary and arbitrary is to have no real understanding of their power psychologically. People find strength in the shared experiences of others who are going through what they go through. Yes, being born black or white or asian or hispanic or jewish or gay is just the roll of some cosmic dice. Everything that happens after that is what causes the need for "pride" in something that you are so often derided and oppressed for. If you are in the majority, you enjoy this automatically every day of your life. That is why it is offensive for the majority to say "well why not me too?". Perhaps because it has been about you all along.