I'm back for the 1.2!!! READ ME!

I came back to find that SL is turning into a war zone. Several do not like the changes, I however love them (Probably contributed towards the push of using US$ to purchase land, talking to Hunter usually once a week about it)

But fear not. I will be purchasing (US$) 1-3 sims worth of land. What will I do with so much land? Renting it out to you for the same price (or less) (L$) that 1.1 currently charges.

Most of this is still up in the air and going thru carefully planning. I will be hosting raffles to give out free land once 1.2 is out. And by free, I mean 100% won't have to pay a dime (US$ OR L$) during your existance in SL.

I will hold such a raffle once a week (To start). I will be raffling off 8,192 sq m. to start! That is 1/8 of a sim! Of course the raffle tickets will cost L$, but not be any more then L$ 1,000 per ticket (Might be a lot less, but things are still in the works)

Need land? Give us a ring at SL Mortgage... j/k.

I'm at a loss Chance, how can you possibly afford to do that?

Congradulations on your RL success! (obviously, for nearly $600/mo worth of land. ) Definately an interesting perspective though, if you actually are going to do it. Actually, heck, with that type of land to toss around, you will be everyone's best friend!

I'm confused... is this meant as real, or sarcasm? Seemed real up untill the j/k.

I think I get how Chance is pulling this off. He/She is using the Developer Incentives to pull of such a thing. Think about it, Chance holds this big ass event, makes the incentives in cash, pays off most of the land he/she bought, plus makes the L$ for the raffel. All in all it should be able to be done.

Good thinking. And if this is not the case, then I am good thinker.

"Need land? Give us a ring at SL Mortgage... j/k."

The j/k was about the "SL Mortgage" comment. About me buying 1-3 sims worth of land (To start), raffling some away, and renting it away at 1.1 prices is all true.

And to keep those of you that wonder how I am able to throw $600+/mo into a game, I am the CEO for ZiruX Solutions ( www.zirux.com ), and we are very big in the gaming industry, and would like to keep SL at it's best any way possible, even if it means throwing in thousands of dollars into LL a month. We see SL to be a very good, fun, learning game that allows everyone to free their mind, and take the internet world home with LL giving us all rights to our creations in SL. This is a very generous thing for LL to do.

I understand not everyone is happy about the changes for land/prims in 1.2, but I will be here helping to remove some of the greif that it causes (Although I am excited about it).

And for those of you that wonder why I left SL in the first place... SL is a great game. ZiruX Solutions backs it up 100% and will help LL with SL any way possible, even for funding if ever needed. However, I took wrong approaches to certain things in SL, and was not very well liked by a few people in the game, and things got out of hand. But I've been out of SL for a while, allowing the heat to die, and will remain out of SL until 1.2 comes out. A few of you prolly see me login every once and a while, but I'm not on very much because of all the work that we have lined up.

And for those of you that are having "pickets" against 1.2, freedom of speech, not gonna dock you about that, but you have to look at a lot of LL's strong points about SL. They offer a lot of freedom with your creations in game, and now they are allowing the choice between US$ and L$, so support LL, and don't picket. They are giving you more then you have seemed to look at.

There are some other interresting items about 1.2 that will allow you to make some US$ from it, but I won't go into that until 1.2 is out, and certain things are stamped to exist in 1.2, and I will fill you in.

The raffle thing, and to allow to rent land form me for 1.1 L$ prices is to help those that do not like the 1.2 changes. Of course I'm not going to just give it away for free, but the raffle is mainly a promotion, and the 1.1 pricing is to help those that like the 1.1 operation better.

Very nice company you got their. Ya I feel the same towards LL. Even though most of us feel we are getting ripped off, it maybe be true in some cases. But overall what SL provides us to do that no other online communtiy does is something I rather stay and ride the mule for. I know most of you don't have to go over a cetain limit of land. One thing I MUST disagree on is the #s for prims per land space. If their was another game that was like SL, believe me I would be already over their right now. But their is not, and I got to give props to LL for creating this universe in the first place. I think it just might be one of the pinoeers to VR to come in the future. Common LL bring out the next feature, to be able to smell objects.

Aside from that, and more on topic. I feel grateful that a person with your wealth and stats would like to help out SL for the better. If I had the income to do the same I would jump the bandwagon with you also. SL need more advertisement plain and simple. If their was more members I think SL would be able to make BETTER changes later that would not make 1.2 so harsh as it sounds now. Like not many people even know SL exists. Being close to 1 year old and all that is ok, but it needs improvements. Anyways whew this is long better end it now before it will be called and article.

Congratulations Chance. You have just demonstrated what's horribly wrong about version 1.2
The people who have been here for ages and worked their asses off to establish their reputation and SL's most profitable businesses now have absolutely no chance to compete with the random idiot who happens to be sitting on obscene amounts of RL money and just waltzes in to ruin the game for us.
How long until McDonalds buys a ton of land and uses it for billboards?

Would be cheaper to have a contest to give away Lifer subscriptions though in the long run....

Will the same land / prim use apply in your sims as the rest of the world? Can a sim owner (renter) override the Linden land use policy?

Just for the sake of arguement. What happens to the settlers in your sims when your company decides it does not want to pay $600 a month to have a presence in SL? I would think that if a sim goes online, it would have to STAY online, regardless of who is using the land.

Paying for land does not give you a new server. It gives you the right to own land up to that amount. You must still purchase the land with linden bucks and pick from whats available, or wait for an auction.

Well, not speaking about Chance and his company specifically, but this is a problem Linden Labs is going to have to respond to.

When people with serious money put on their big boots and stomp through the economy, it may have a very dramatic effect on the world as a whole.

For instance, what would stop another company - perhaps more interested in their own bottom line than in LL's survival - from successfully bidding on sim after sim? I'm less afraid of a MacDonald's sim than I am of this entire world becoming Disneyland or ZiruXLand. Can you imagine a time when NO private citizen can afford to bid for new land? While it's nice that Chance has said he'll give us all a good deal on land, do you realize that there is nothing to make him be so generous? And nothing to say that any of the other corporations bidding on sims will be so kind.

Chance, regardless of where his heart might be, is setting up a model for other corporations. No offense meant to him, but I hope Linden Labs comes out right away to say that (A) only individuals are allowed to bid on land in Second Life and (B) no land in Second Life can bear the logo, name, or advertising for a real-world person, company or corporation.

I'm already nervous about having to bid against other players - some of whom have FAR deeper pockets that I do in SL or RL. I already find myself convinced that I will never get first dibs on any new land. And. if a successful bidder decided to sell later, I am pretty sure he'll NOT be selling at a price anywhere near what we spend on public land these days. But, I still have hopes that a fair economy will eventually find a way. And I assumed (naively) that there would be relatively few folks who would spend large amounts of money on land, especially since they'd need to find some use for the land once they owned it.

I hadn't thought of what would happen if someone with GOBS of cash wanted to totally control the real estate market in SL. Especially, since they may very well have their own professional content providers ready to create a plethora of corporate sims. Do we really HAVE to make every aspect of William Gibson's future come about?

Remember, when we are surrounded by corporate sims, we will have to follow THEIR rules. They will be quick to regulate who lives there, what they can build and say, who can sell, etc. The owner of the sim gets to write all the rules. For those of you who STILL refuse to consider self-rule, realize that it WILL happen some day, but you may not get to participate in what comes about. There’s no free press at Disney World.

As I've said before, if you don't take control of your world, someone else will do it for you.

Well, it's 4:30am here, and I haven't gone to sleep yet. I was headed there when I read this thread :-/ I'm sorry if I sound incoherent, but I needed to say something. Either Linden Labs or the players themselves have to set some limits here.

So, thanks for the offer, Chance. Tempting as it is, I don't like the feeling that it'll come back and bite us in the backside later. I'm sure you aren't Satan, but the deal seems a bit Faustian to me. I am not going to endorse your method by taking advantage of your offer.

(Oh, and please don't tell me not to express my opinion. You imply that if I have reservations against the changes in 1.2, then I must not be looking close enough and I shouldn’t picket. That is a fairly arrogant perspective, don't you think? I'll let it go, because several people reassure me you aren't really like that, but you can understand my hesitance when rich people start talking about owning large chunks of the world while telling me that I'm not bright enough to see the whole picture.)

As I've said in other threads, I am very willing to see 1.2 come about. Except for this particular vulnerability to rich people, I think it's a wonderful bunch of changes. I'm even willing to give this whole "money talks" thing - perhaps it is the change necessary for the economy to scale properly - as Philip implied. But, I have to say, the idea of someone so glibly waltzing in and saying, "I've got the cash to buy a large chunk of the world, and I'll rewrite the parts of the economy that I don't like, while telling you all to be happy with the rest...blah blah blah" well, that kind of approach makes me as nervous as a hog at the State Fair. I won't know until it's too late whether I'm there to get a ribbon, or to grace someone's plate as a stack of ribs.

So, someone better get on the ball and set some limits. Money is more than just numbers for the economic formula. When you let real money directly into your virtual economy, you let in all the stuff that goes with it.

If you don't take control of your world, someone else will do it for you.

Okay, so corporate sim lessors will still have to be productive players since US$ only reserves the rights to amounts of land. The land still has to be purchased with L$.

One sim equals 65,536m of land = L$196,608.
Three sims = L$529,824.

Currently, the richest player in the game cant even afford to buy three sims worth of land in game. Right now, highest net worth of top player is L$328,621.

So, buying rights to three sims worth of land is a waste of money? What am I missing?

I don't think land has to be originaly purchased with L$, could someone post a link to where it says it does?

Also I heard from someone else that LL is willing to sell full Sim's this early if people are willing to buy, this of course was just a rumor so has no real validity.

Its kind of funny, I always envisioned something like out of Neal Stephensons, Snow Crash, something like The Metaverse, but I never stoped to think about how badly it'd be to be as Commercialized as The Metaverse was. Most big corporations had the prime property on The Street, and the only reason Hiro lived close to it was cuse a bunch of hackers pooled together money early in the game enough to buy some good land... seems to remind me of something... hmmm.

Not sure which William Gibson future you meant, haven't read all his books, but it made me think of the above right away.

I'm not saying all companies have bad intentions, but the above is the exact scenario most of us didn't want.

I'm still weary about this deal because it seems oddly too good.

Your missing nothing Loki. I think alot of people seem to forget that even though you can pay RL money for land, you can't actually acquire the land in SL without the equivalent L$. At least, that's what I hear, and it would make sense, because then newbies wouldn't be able to buy 1/2 a sim, due to the lack of L$. Basically what the Lindens are doing now is giving people the chance, with L$ to aquire the land, and then pay their taxes using RL money.

L$ are anything but scarce, people. You get them for free every week, remember, it's not like they are hard to come by. So you can gradually buy more and more land every week until you own a full sim or three.
Plus you can buy L$ online, or borrow them from wealthier players who will see your land hoarding as a good investment opportunity.
If he's buying land for rent he will soon be getting more money every week than most of us. LL just opened the floodgates to all the annoying things in the real world to come pouring in.

Yea, what really sucks is when someone trying to help out a bit is called an "idiot" by some random [mild expletive deleted] that thinks he's special because he's "been here for ages"

Take your flames elsewhere. I posted to let ppl know what I was planning, if you want to flame someone, do it in your own thread.

And for those of you that still wonder why I quit SL in the first place, Eggy's the perfect example of why.

He has a point, however.

You're coming up against a lot of people who worked hard and planned carefully under the old system... because it was different from RL. We all started out on an equal footing and made ourselves what we are by who we were and what we did.

Now the new system comes in and we get our legs cut out from under us.... all that work wasted, because now someone who has a lot of RL money, (which previously didn't matter and that was something we liked about it) can now come in and do more.

It's something a lot of us intensely dislike about RL... that someone who is wealthy, (and in RL that's generally either by being born that way or being in a position to spend other people's money) can come in and take away the resources that we've been working hard to be able to get. And now they're snatched away... and not a damned thing we can do about it.

Chance, the first thing you did when you got into the game was take the jetball gun and mod it so it orbited people. The second thing you did was to disrupt my classes. The third thing you did was to hack into TiamaT's casino games.
If you hadn't left, you would have been kicked out eventually
Heck if it was my game you would have probably been kicked out on your first day.
Your behavior has historically been that of a spoiled brat, not a respectable businessman. If you're the "CEO" of any other company please let me know so I will make sure not to do business with any of them

There's nothing wrong with it.... as long as it's understood to be a non-profit venture... rather than a financial investment by a corporation. As a non-profit 'well we're investing because we think this is amazingly cool... and if we lose money on it, well that's how it goes...' or even doing it for a tax break... I don't have a problem with.

But if I'd wanted to be involved with a world that was dependant on coproprate investments.... I'd probably still be in There.

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I can't help but wonder: doesn't this fly in the face of how LL told us sims would be offered for sale (as individual plots, not whole sims at a time)?

If a deal of this magnitude had been struck, with this much of an impact on the economic model the Lindens seem to be trying to create -- wouldn't we be hearing about it in the form of an LL announcement, rather than a post on the forums from a user with a reputation (in some quarters at least) as a troublemaker and prankster?

And isn't it odd that this offer comes along in the wee hours of Sunday morning, when there's unlikely to be anyone available at Linden Lab or at ZiruX to discuss it or confirm the details?

If this proposal is genuine, it's quite generous and admirable. But it does sound suspiciously like a Slashdot-style troll.

Can anyone -- particularly anyone at Linden Lab -- confirm that Chance really is who he claims to be, and really has made the arrangements he describes?

Our second lives have just become more complicated.

Corwin: You said

****************
It's something a lot of us intensely dislike about RL... that someone who is wealthy, (and in RL that's generally either by being born that way or being in a position to spend other people's money)
**************

You must be very young to assume that of people who are wealthy. The world is full of people who are well-off because they made themselves that way by "who they are and what they did," to use your own words.

I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your post, or for that matter, even commenting on the rest of this thread, but just pointing out an unfair bias.

Maggie

This says nothing about Chance, his reputation, his magnanimity or anything else (except in this sentence); it is about a principle.

I know that many people would be reluctant to lease land from a landholder and improve it in RL when they have no enforcable contractual agreement with the landholder.

Even if the landholder's intentions are true, noble, and good, extrinsic factors can always enter the picture (landholder illness, disinterest, accident, etc.) The concept is generous, but those who are concerned about RL$/L$ amalgamation should probably look this gift horse in the mouth. So long as the servers are under LL's "roof", no one except LL has unalienable rights (much the same if I were to "rent" you my backyard without a contract).