How many of you have moved to escape UGLY??

Nice biased poll. Makes me want to buy lots of land and put disgusting builds on it.

I'll get over it once I get some sleep though ... so dont worry

-AP

Missing option: I pressured my neighbors into moving even though they had lived there longer than me.

LOL - you are funny. Actually that parcel was not to get away from what were probably my greatest neighbors! I wanted a bigger piece of land and to be on the water and my neighbor in front was more then willing to buy the prop. So I stand corrected on that one piece. Urusula looks just fine nakie

I have a building that radically differs from the Taber building code. My excuse, of course, is that I was there a long, long while before they arrived. I was surprised to see all the pretty Tudor styled architecture rez in around me some time ago. Still, we're amiable neighbors.

Since my plot is D'Ni architecture and not Tudor, my neighbor rezzed up a plane that was transparent from my property, but non-transparent from their side. Actually, they should have taken a screen shot of the sim's edge and placed that on the non-transparent side instead, as had been described further upthread. I'm sure that would be more aestheticaly pleasing to them than a mere blank wall.

For some reason in SL people do not like to think of their neighbors or beautifying the overall area. But why not? I don't understand

Firstly,

One of the keys to marketing in RL and in SL is that a better looking shop will also often draw good business (Of course the wares have to be good, but..). So fi you have a well designed shop, with some landscaping, it will attract people and can be used as a marketing tool to get more business.

If you own a home, why would you not want the area to be beautiful? I am sure there are many who are willingly ready to help you, perhaps, to improve your build. There are some lovely prefabs available, more than just the boxy ones, if you shop around. Barnesworth Anubis comes to mind for some VERY beautiful well priced homes, and House of Shae has some beautiful awesome exotic style homes by Eva Virgo (Egyption, Gothique, Castle, and Greek) though those may conflict with neighbors tastes, they look beautiful in themselves and are better than just a box as well can probably look even better in any setting with landscaping.

If you own a club, why would you not want to make your club look unique and beautiful? Yea, you could make it a box, but a lot of what attracts people to a place is the look and feel of the place. I hope that surely people in SL have a basic sense of the asthetic enough to appreciate it in others.


I am deeply disturbed though by the attitude of some people in SL that INTENTIONALLY put up ugly structures next to beautiful builds, such as villages, and then put descriptions on the property like "I will not sell this for anything". An example comes to mind of an absolutely beautiful large build, uniquely built, that someone plopped something down near the middle of and put something tacky on top.

Whisper and I coped with W-Hat by putting up some nice, phantom, 10m x10m x 0.01m prims with a nice palm tree landscape on one side, and 100% alpha on the other side.

Sorry to hear about your first land, Lo - I often wondered about those first landers on the other side of the hill.

I've used the big, phantom, transparent-on-one-side solution several times since.

<cries> you bought me out in jenner...does that mean i build ugly builds? <cries some more>

I love my tiny landless-land, and even when a rather ugly club went up next door I just thought, Well - I'll just go over there and dance! After a while it left and now lilone's my neighbor. I've never been overshadowed as some are, so I'm lucky. I'd always try to stick it out - granted though some situations are just too awful to stand and some players have more options than I.

I am a bit surprised that anyone would buy land and practice building for fear of their efforts being considered ugly. It seems that most of the elite in SL feel the urge to defame anyone who disagrees with them or happens to build in a manner which they do not agree with. Of course this attitude rears its ugly head in many fashions including the threads of "I (well loved player x) already did that so you cannot", "newbie y made an avatar that looks too much like mine", "player z's club is eating all of my resources so I am going to whine until they quite" and the current "player w's building is ugly so I have to sell my land and move closer to the pretty building people". What is the constant? Me, me, me...everyone else's build is uglier than mine, everyone else's idea was already done by me, and everyone else is using my resources. Everyone is so worried about what their neighbor is doing and how their neighbor affects their life that they forget what the hell they started playing around in SL for. Their SL becomes one huge whine festival.

Most of those who joined sl in the early days were hardcore. They were coders and graphic artists irl. Now the world is becoming mainstream and they are angry because their perfect little world of photoshop guru's and scripting gods is a thing of the past. Now the world is filled with the normal Jane and Jon Doe stuggling to learn the basics but full with credit cards to buy land and practice. Your world was wonderful for you, bad for LL. LL needs the mainstream folk, they need those people who do not wish to invest in 3d max but want to play with a 3d medium. So live with it or buy an island with your pretty building friends and build all of the pretty builds you wish. While you're there stick your nose in the air at all the scrubs just trying to have fun...even though they are likely potential customers and may get a bit sick and tired of your attitude toward them not to mention that the builder of ugly builds may just be the next architectural genius.

In fact I'm running around 50 % plywood atm (again) hehehhee
There is no 'ugly' in Taber - just a bunch of folks who seem to enjoy what their neighbours are building, and give a thought to whats around em when building.

Siggy.

I think you're laying this at the wrong feet, Isis. A sense of entitlement is far more pervasive with newer players than with older. I think it's a right of passage to enter the world imagining you'll have more control over your environment than you actually do, and then after battling with it for a while coming to the conclusion that live and let live is the only way to be happy in SL. People love to attribute the early adopters as being embittered by having new kids in their playground. I really don't believe that's the case at all. It's far more common for newer people to resent old timers for posessing imagined qualities they don't actually posess. Human nature I guess. For those of us (which I would guess are the vast majority) who don't view SL through "us versus them" glasses it's a bit frustrating to be lumped into a category that's really just a kind of popular mythology.

I agree with most of what you are saying Isis, especially on the worrying so much about what your neighbor is building as far as your tastes vs. those of your neighbors goes, however, on the sim resources issue, I have seen one build bring the sim performance to its knees, for months on end, that is not acceptable in my book. Interestingly enough, when these builds left their respective areas, the performance shot right back up.

Sim perfomance affects all the residents in a particular sim, so I would say that the person saying "me, me, me" in those cases is the person using most of the resources, i.e. CPU cycles.

I'm in shock. Somebody ELSE talking about the feted inner tekkie creative elite.
Isis, if these photoshop gurus try to eat you for breakfast, I will save you.

Shock, I tell you.

Geez, and you all thought I was a venomous asshole with hidden agendas bent on destroying SL community spirit.

Er...did I just say that the Emperor has no clothes?

Oh...I am not a seamstress...so I don't get to do that?

I still do.

I agree that resource hogs are more invasive than "ugly" builders. You are right and I shouldn't have included that statement in my post.

And chip, I know that the oldbies of your ilk are not the ones complaining. You and the other true artists who actually started sl are much more forgiving than the newer "gurus and gods." I hope that you didn't think that I was including the likes of you and those others too numerous to mention. But you must admit that many have what I used to call the 6 month stripper syndrome. They come in knowing absolutely nothing about sl yet they have a bit of comp experience under their belt. Within 6 months they are the king of the world and feel that they have some devine providence which allows them to defame the works of new or casual residents. Stippers do the same thing. They can barely walk across stage the first day yet after 6 months they are balling it out with another woman for stealing a regular customer who has been around for years.

I have been in and out of SL for well over a year now. I've seen the change and watched as the 6 monthers have grown more and more bitter towards the influx of new "ugly" builders. Yet they are not picking up the torch of the true oldbies. I see the same names teaching classes as I saw when I first started in SL, I see the same folks offering tutorials and honest critiques/suggestions. There are very few new leaders and a crap load of wanna be oldbie complainers. Sorry if I scuffed your shoe. It was not directed towards the true oldbies but more towards the semi-oldbie hardcore.

I do agree with that, Isis. I guess I still think of people in the world for six months as being relatively new comparatively speaking, which is why I attribute the attitude more to newer people who perhaps haven't confronted the issues enough times to reach what I hope are the logical conslusions for most. Thanks for clarifying.

I'd like to see some live examples of this newbie sense of entitlement. I find it far more prevalent among oldbies.

I've been in the game about 4 months. In my first 3 months, I wouldn't have thought of negrating someone for an ugly obstructive build, nor challenged a thing about the oldbies. They, after all, were the in-world animated CAD-like scripting gurus as Isis said, and I couldn't stick two prims together. How dare I say a thing about what they are doing? I just flew around and looked at stuff.

I didn't buy land, I just contributed tier to groups. I looked around and tried to learn something.

All of this changed the first minute I bought land right-clicking on "first land" with my newbie 512 privilege. I immediately discovered that people can and would dump their created artifacts -- as cool as they were -- on my land merely because I hadn't figured out create/edit yet. I discovered that neighbours would put up those annoying red blocking thingies for no earthly understandable reason -- they were still building? -- inconveniencing me as my av struggled to fly around and avoid bouncing on their wall and another neighbour's wall as I struggled to place plants. They never came on line for days and days -- what's the privacy blocker red fence thing FOR then?

I saw that ppl would put up giant malls with lights and lag the sim....put up ugly spinning boxes for their business they never attended....put up huge ugly spinning for-sale signs for weeks as nobody even bothered to look at their land...and on and on.

Well I could tell a hundred stories but I can now say that bout 45 days into owning different parcels of land and watching it all I can say I never cease to be amazed when I log in. If I think it can get bad...it can get worse.

I often wonder why we only have prim limits on our parcels, say 117 to the 512. Why don't we also have limits we pay rent on for things like using up the agents or servers' capacity with scripting and lights and stuff? If people had to pay for all that stuff that lags the whole sim, they might think twice about it just as they have to limit their prim usage to what they can actually pay in tier each month.

What I find isn't even so much an over-concern about what a neighbour is doing as Isis mentoined in her first paragraph, but as I've said elsewhere, me-firstism and fuck-you hedonism. That expression sounds really harsh and makes many people bristle, but the prevelance in which people use the word "fuck" to tell you to shut up, buy your own sim, etc. proves my point, and the use of the word "hedonism" is justified to describe that tendency to put my pleasure uber alles. Does this mean that there are certain individuals I've applied this term to 100%? Of course not. People are complicated, and they don't act the same way the same 2 days especially in a fantasy world like SL. But taken AS A WHOLE, I see that spirit -- let me do the fuck what I want on my land and if you ask me a thing about it fuck you.

There seems to be no concept as there is in RL of good neighbourliness, thinking of higher ideals like the beauty of the land as created, thinking of what is good for the whole community (as to lagging issues), thinking of common "Do unto others what you would have them do unto you" like of morality.

The TOS are very obsessed with privacy, the Lindens are obsessed with collecting their quit-rent, but what about being a good neighbour? Why didn't this "evolved cultural norm" happen in 2 years, but just the opposite?

In Russia, for example, there isn't private property and even with the fall of communism people still have an allergy to the idea of letting a developer carve up a forest and hawk it. You could argue whether this is a good or bad system for the economy but I just say it to indicate that there are other value systems and as SL grows bigger, it won't be just this yahoo kind of "mine property" sort of attitude.

For example, the idea that you couldn't walk on somebody's land seems odd, because often you need people to help you on something like say your truck garden. To be sure, the government puts all kind of property off limits and that is resented but there's an idea that nature preserves shouldn't be carved up or poached.

And in the US, you don't own water. You might own part of the shore, but after a few feet out in the ocean, it's the whole country's not just your water. So the idea that you'd sell off a little patch of water is just a hoot. To be sure, whole country's fight over water like the Caspian Sea and the Caucasus. But you don't have an individual marking up 64 acres of water as "his own" and banning people from it or selling it for a crazy price because he knows he has viewblocking capabilities to those on the mainland.

Sometimes I wonder why the Lindens didn't make all the water Linden water after say 10 feet off the shore.

I happen to like most of the true gurus of photoshop and scripting gods. I just hate the ones who spend all of their time putting down other residents who may not be as literate in the fine art of comp art or language. In fact I hate anyone who degrades others in an effort to elevate themselves. So sue me.

I have an asshole but it is only venomous after eating 3 bean salad.

hmml, one time there was this ugly build near my home, so I thought, I wonder if I made a build similar in shape to thiers but better built with better features and textures would they use it? Well I did, and well, they sold their land. LOL

Wow. I have become enlightened and seen the error of my ways.

It isn't the true oldbies who are the feted inner-core elite.

It's the semi-oldbie hardcore that are the know-it-alls, etc. These are the soi-disant oldbies who aren't really true oldbies.

The True Oldbies are like the Ancient Mariner, rocking back and forth, smoking their pipes as they stare out with weather-beaten faces to the pixelated multi-mooned SL sea.

Now I know the difference.

All of those things certainly can and do happen Prokofy. They always have from day one. It's the nature of the beast. There are certain conflicting mindsets and preconceived notions that have always and will always clash as people exist in this giant melting pot of aesthetics and ambitions. It simply isn't an old versus new thing. I'm not in any way denying that the kinds of things you describe are common conflicts. What I'm disputing is how they're resolved, and the notion that the age of a player has any correlation to which side of any given argument they'll be on... with the exception of issues that they've already dealt with numerous times. They'll likely have opinions about those already, not out of prejudice but out of experience of what tends to work best for creating as much harmony as possible. The attitueds are spread across all account ages. It may just seem that old timers are more prima donna-ish because they tend to be more visible.

hehe...I don't care what anyone else says....I like you. That was too funny. You must understand though that there are those who have been in SL since the beginning that contribute a ton, ask very little and are for the most part silent. Then there are those who came after beta who expect much, contribute a bit for a fee and whine constantly about what everyone else is doing to ruin "their" SL. I was simply telling Chip and Nolan that they (along with many others) do not fall into that category though it did sound as if I was singling out the few true oldtimers. But I am sure you can stick it in the RonCo opinion spinner and throw whatever dressing suits your agenda on top.

There's no point in forming an "us vs. them" opinion about SL -- basically, you treat everyone with respect and try to understand where everyone else is coming from. I am not an "oldbie," and nor am I necessarily a "newbie" -- SL is an enjoyable pastime for me, that's all. I do believe that everyone has their own certain group of friends as well as acquaintances, just as in real life. I don't really care about what happened with the "I don't get it, and they certainly don't" thread but I just don't believe in creating sides. I mean, it's like kids who draw a line between them in the backseat of the car.

Hehe, thank you Lo. That was very well said It occurs to me that I have absolutely no idea when most of the people I know in SL joined., unless it happened to be the same general time I did. Any notion of an oldbie versus newbie culture depends on a rather unlikely prerequisite... that anyone actually bothers to pay attention to join dates. I can't remember the last time I looked at one. It's irrelevant.