Christmas Celebrations Becoming Politically Incorrect?

Hello Circe

I'm glad I have experience living in a multinational, multireligious country, even with a state religion, where they just have the "yolka," the pine tree, and you can deploy it as you want, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, secular, whatever, and put whatever thing you want on it to make your own portable winter holiday. The Soviets stripped out the religion and just kept the "New Year Yolka" put out around the end of the year, and then when the Soviets collapsed everybody started to put back on the tree what they wanted.

I celebrate Russian Orthodox Christmas, which doesn't come until January 6, then Old New Year's on the old calendar, which doesn't come until January 13 so if I'm late paying the doormen their annual tip, I have an excellent excuse.

All these holidays around give me an excuse to start celebrating sometime around the first sighting of Hanukkah dreidles, to keep going through Kwanzaa and then the Western Christmas, the secular type of New Year's....and just on and on and on right into mid-January, where I begin to realize I haven't worked for weeks and my rent is due LOL.

If I don't take my Christmas tree down before Western Valentine's Day, ppl hardly notice.

The fact that some intolerant old farts are present in the christian community doesnt make christmas celebrations offensive to others, if they are offended by a beltane celebration it's THEIR problem, exactly like if someone slse is offended by christmas celebration. Maybe they all should go see a good shrink about tolerance, alongside the ones that want to ban public christmas celebrations (or the ones of whatever religion anyway).

I can't speak to Kwaanza --but Hannukah simply means "Festival of Lights" which is descriptive, whereas Christmas actually refers to the religious ceremony of "The Christ's Mass". If Christmas were called "Pretty Tree Party" then it would be named simarly to Hannukah.

The 3 Wisemen gave Gifts to Jesus according to some christian beliefs..hense the giving of gifts to each other. I think the holiday should be looked at through the eyes of a child from the heart of sharing and giving rather than an offense...just like any other holiday weather it's tied to religion or not..I think we know what goodness of heart is and what is Evil.

Christmas is a national holiday and yes I find it extreme that a child can be kicked out of school for wishing someone a "Merry Christmas". I'm not going to drag out the discussion in this post though. You have those who say "yay Xmas all the way I'm sick of Christian based holidays being shoved in my face" and you'll have those who believe it's rediculous for people to take "the removal of God from everything" too far, etc etc. The reason I'm posting is because of my love of the holiday period. Anyone that knows me really well knows how much I'm a kid when it comes to Christmas. I never really got the chance to experience it as a child so I guess now it's still an excitement.

Yes I believe that Christmas is to remember the birth of Christ but it's something else that drives me during this time of year. The spirit of Christmas is something that should thrive in all of us all year long. The joy of giving, of loving, of hope in humanity, and a greater good that exists in all of our hearts. I know this seems like a dream in the world we live in today. Every year it's a reminder for me that I can't lose faith in mankind.
I guess, in a long winded way, what I'm trying to say is when I tell someone Merry Christmas, it's from my heart. It's my wish that they have a wonderful holiday with those they love. As far as buisnesses taking Christmas out of advertising..one can't really blame them for not wanting to get sued. I think it's quite obvious this could and WOULD happen today.

So if I get burned for this oh well, Merry Christmas.

Samhain (pronounced 'sow-in') is more commonly called Halloween. It is the celebration of the New Year. Here's a link

Your comment says it all though, 'if it involves worshiping Satan'... the only people that believe in Satan are Judeo-Christians (maybe Muslims too since its all the same 'one god', but I'm not sure what their view of evil is). This is typical of what I am talking about.

I think need to bow out of this conversation because its a touchy subject with me, I am getting heated by reading some of these replies, and it might be better to shut up now rather than get banned for losing my cool and saying things I should not.

-Ghoti

Well, obviously, a Christian is going to be against worshiping Satan.

However, that does not mean that all Christians think Samhain is satan worship. Those that do are mis-informed.

I said you might see that by Christians..I never said I was a Christian. I don't think you need to understand what good and evil is either..im sure you know the difference..whatever you want to call it. I don't know what samhain is and I am not implying that is or any belief is evil..let me make that clear. It does get a bit ridiculous
when people start whining over symbolism. It is a never ending whine on both sides.

uh huh --what does that have to do with my post on what the name Hannukah means? I'm confusticated.

Has nothing to do with anything..im tired of discussing it period lol.

Actually you are quite wrong.

Samhain marks one of the two great doorways of the Celtic year, for the Celts divided the year into two seasons: the light and the dark, at Beltane on May 1st and Samhain on November 1st. Some believe that Samhain was the more important festival, marking the beginning of a whole new cycle, just as the Celtic day began at night. For it was understood that in dark silence comes whisperings of new beginnings, the stirring of the seed below the ground. Whereas Beltane welcomes in the summer with joyous celebrations at dawn, the most magically potent time of this festival is November Eve, the night of October 31st, known today of course, as Halloween.

Samhain literally means “summer's end.” In Scotland and Ireland, Halloween is known as Oíche Shamhna.

I put all my thoughts on this subject in Blake's thread in Off-Topic. For those who are interested in reading that thread, you can find it here:

Bann Christmas at Schools in the United States? What's next?
/120/0e/29371/1.html

Nice use of the link I provided, but I am quite right:



Yes, it is the new year.

-Ghoti

Yes it is the new year...it's not Halloween

Besides my religion is the only true religion

I worship Elmer Fudd

Listen guys... I'm a complete athiest. That is, don't believe in GODs, Heavens, Hells, Afterlife, Spirits, Gaiyas or whatever the heck goes around being reverenced these days. But, in a psycological viewpoint I understand all the mumbo jumbo with people and religion.

Us human beings, in our advanced evolutionary state, have an urge to believe we are fundamentally "different" from other species... thus, we need something to set us apart... like... a spirit. Which then needs to be created by something bigger and greater than the spirit... which then leads to all this god-stuff we see scattered all around. And of course, there are as many religions and gods as imagination can create.

Now... understanding it's a cultural thing, more than a do-this-or-burn-eternally-in-hell thing, I believe if people want to do and express their religion WITHOUT AFFECTING other people's rights, then so be it.

But what I've been seeing in the world.. and specially in the US, is something like a "reverse intolerance". WTF should I care if someone prays next to me? It's their cultural expression of their religion. I care less if someone pulls out a rug and bows towards the sun set... or sunrise, I dunno. Why is everyone all of a sudden freaking out on all this Christmass stuff? For me, it's not even religious in most parts anymore.. the mainstream media has made it more commercial than I guess Xtians would want to admit.

I think people are over reacting due to an era where we are starting to feel "liberated" from christianity... meaning it was for most time the central religion in the world.. now loosing power, everyone wants to slaughter it.

I remind you, I'm not christian. But, I've got nothing against them, nor any other religion. To me, none of that trascends flesh and bones. Hell, I don't even care if you're satanist.... of course, unless you do some of those things urban legends state, like sacrifices and stuff like that. Even then, if they aren't human sacrafices and you're doing it in your own cult space where issues like hygene and public safety are cleared... what should I care?

I think christmass is a cultural expression. Anyone trying to shove religious aspect of it into someone who dissapproves, should be scolded. I think people who "Hate" Xmass celebrations and want to ban them altogether are just venting childhood issues in an innapproriate manner in the society.

Music.- also a cultural expression. Let's keep all radios shut off, only to be turned on in the privacy of your home... what if someone feels "oh so offended" because I'm playing a song in salsa? Maybe that person felt left out when they couldn't learn the lil salsa steps in a misley 6th grade musical. Society is a place to learn to cope with one another, not shut everyone down.


Ok, so I know this post will get flamed... so I'll just say I like my posts "well done" and BBQed...

WELL DONE..TOTALLY EXCELLENT!! AND AGREED!

Marker, I consider myself more of an Agnostic than an Athiest...Other than that, I agree with your post word for word.

I can't imagine becoming upset or offended by ANY religious symbol that crosses my field of vision...even in the workplace and yes, even satanic symbols. I just can't imagine me being upset over that. You could make lovely poster declaring "Agnostics are going to HELL!!!". Hang it outside my office. I would find it really amusing.

-aimee

Personally, I am sick of all the political correctness. I really don't care how other people worship or spend their holidays as long as they are not hurting anyone. Since when did any celebration become offensive? What is with this me me me attitude these days? I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain about how people are not thinking about their needs and feelings. Cry me a river already. Are we adults or spoiled children? I am not religious and I don't care what decorations are put up or how people greet me or if they stand around having mass all freakin' day long. Whatever makes them happy is really all that matters. I do what I like to do and they do what they like to do. And I cannot speak for other countries but here in the US, this country has very deep Christian roots, so if anyone doesn't like it they are more than welcome to leave or stay home and live a sheltered life for all I care. Would you go to China and tell them to put away all the paper dragons during their holiday season because religious reptiles offend you? Nobody is forcing anyone to follow any faith here. They are just wishing happiness to people they meet. Oh boo hoo, someone said Merry Christmas or Happy Hanukkah to you. Look at the up side, at least they didn't throw dog crap at you.
In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"

Just my little rant for today

Merry Christmas

Is America a "Christian" Nation?



I think your statement stands on its own as an example of exactly why Xtians are getting the backlash that they are.

-Ghoti

Pffft! Believe whatcha want everyone, and spread the love to those you wanna be with. Quit pushing your beliefs in other peoples faces and quit trying to rip other peoples beliefs away from them. How you spend your holidays is your preference...and cannot and should not be regulated by any other person. Happy Festivus!

I don't really have anything against Christmas. What boggles my mind however is the vehemance people have at any suggestion that maybe it would be nice to be inclusive instead of exclusive. Christmas may be in many ways just a secular orgy of consumerism run amok, but at it's root it always has been and always will be a religious holiday. Asking that in the public square and public schools it be kept to a minimum is simply asking for tolerance and respect for multiculturalism. An atheist, muslim, Jew, pagan, wiccan, what have you, should not be having to subsidize nativity scenes and christmas pageants with their tax dollars. I see the outrage over that suggestion as the true intolerance. It isn't like a radio because you can't turn it off. It's a bit like having a large group of carollers parked on your front lawn singing at the top of their lungs for two months, while trying to sell you a car at the same time, and demanding you help pay for their parkas and songbooks.

Chip, amen.

-Ghoti

Hee, this just about covers it for me...

http://www.startribune.com/stories/804/5130274.html


http://www.startribune.com/fungames/ipoll/tabulate.php?poll=1366


Merry Christmas everybody! ^_^