One Player --> Two Developer Incentives

It's ironic that Sensual could be so adamant and accusatory that other people were wrong, and then when confronted with proof that she was incorrect, she has not retracted her demeaning statements. I find being called "ignorant" offensive, and that was just what I was called, let alone other players.

This whole thread should be locked down, because it clearly singles out Anshe to put her down, and to make matters worse, on a completely unfounded basis.

Reporting this thread so Jeska can lock it in the morning.

hiro


what this suggests to me, is there chose 58 out of 2900, or 2 %, of the land owning accounts in SL. by owners they mean accounts, because as they've said before, they treat each account as a seperate individual regardless of if they are on the same credit card (ex: siggy and jonq, and anshe and anshee)


let's make your list how i understand it. SL has 250 land owning accounts. 2% = 5 accounts.

The top 5 accounts qualify for bonuses. total dwell pot = 635
A = 250 dwell - 39%
B = 150 dwell - 24%
C = 100 dwell - 16%
D = 75 dwell - 12%
E = 60 dwell - 9%
----------------------------------------
F = 50 dwell
G = 45 dwell
H = 40 dwell

Let's say Anshe is C and D and H. 16%+12%=28%

Now, if Anshe were in one player, the list would look like this: total dwell pot 725
A = 250 dwell - 34%
C+D+H= 215 dwell - 30%
B = 150 dwell - 21%
E = 60 dwell - 8%
F = 50 dwell - 7%
-----------------------------------------
G = 45 dwell

as you can see, A, B, and E are recieving a bigger proportion in the first case, while anshe received a smaller proportion.

what haney does not mention is the 250 $ max, so perhaps in case 1 more players got maxed out to 250.

in the end, this hardly constitutes abuse, and the big losers are not the other people on the list but the two individuals that didn't make it. realizing LL's policy on accounts, there is absolutely nothing that can be done for them as the award is for landowner ACCOUNTS. but i don't advise splitting about land to different accounts for dwell prizes, because as you can see, performance will be poorer unless alot more effort is put in.

i think the objective of this thread is for LL to look into their oversight and question how they deal with multiple accounts, since here is another case where it has caused a problem. i don't think it was really about putting down anshe because i doubt anshe was gunning for dwelloper incentive. i can't speak for her, but knowing her to be a savy "business girl" i would be surprised if she wasted her time banking on that migraine.

as for sensuals statements, i wasn't offended. it was totally in line with our fiesty back and forth. i think...

Your case is accurate, based on the assumption that the size of the dwell pot changes.

However, as Haney stated, it's based on total dwell of residents -- anyone in the top 2% of dwellers... so if one person has 5% of total dwell, only one person would get it - or if it took 100 people to accumulate the top 2% of dwell, then they all would get a bonus. So with a cusp based on this, a person's alt's can't affect whether or not a person is above or below the cusp.

give me a minute and I'll post the math



Okay, this I admit I missed. In this case, it's not really Anshe's fault - it'd be LL's. It's a pretty obvious loophole and I really can't fault anyone for using it. Really LL ought to just remove the cap, and if they need to cut out the total money they give out, just reduce it accordingly accross the board.

Sorry I was watching a movie, I could not reply to you as promptly as you would like. Hiro, this isn't about Anshe, as you seen I was against the entire thing before I even knew who it was, and this has happen before to someone with the last name of Cotton, it is not allowed, you can find the information youa re looking for with a little research, I get the Dev awards every month, I know how they work.

- incorrect - 2% = a variable amount of accounts based on how much dwell was gotten, not just how many people are landowners.

1000 dwell total
100 residents
2% dwell as cutoff

A = 60 dwell = 6%
B = 50 dwell = 5%
C = 40 dwell = 4%
D = 30 dwell = 3%
E = 25 dwell = 2.5%
F = 20 dwell = 2%
-----------------------
G = 19 dwell = 1.9%
H = 15 dwell = 1.5%
... etc ...

Case 1: Anshe is C and D, combining to one player:

C + D = 70 dwell = 7%
A = 60 dwell = 6%
B = 50 dwell = 5%
E = 25 dwell = 2.5%
F = 20 dwell = 2%
-----------------------
G = 19 dwell = 1.9%
H = 15 dwell = 1.5%

result: the list doesn't change because the pool doesn't change

Case 2: Anshe is C and G, combining to one player:
A = 60 dwell = 6%
C + G = 59 dwell = 5.9%
B = 50 dwell = 5%
D = 30 dwell = 3%
E = 25 dwell = 2.5%
F = 20 dwell = 2%
-----------------------
H = 15 dwell = 1.5%

result: Anshe is actually hurt by being 2 players, because only 1 is on the list

No problem. I just assumed since you were replying so quickly that you would continue to do so.

Like heck it's not. It took exactly 5 seconds to look up Haney's dwelloper award post to see who it was. It was obvious who you were talking about - and in real life, libel/slander can be sufficiently proven if a person gives enough information to make it readily obvious about who they are speaking about.

EDIT:-----
Just look at your first post:

Come on, you're not fooling anyone by hiding behind the "I didn't know who it was". And even if you were, then you should have known how easy it was to figure out, and in that case you were being recklessly loose with your demands for vengeance.
------------


/sarcasm We're clearly not naming names, here. Right. /sarcasm off


Obviously not well enough, because I've shown the information you posted to be contrary to what Haney has stated. Unless you know, and Haney is mistaken.

There was no reason for you to get all "you're ignorant" on us, and the fact that you are incorrect with your facts that you so firmly insisted that you were correct on is shameful.

EDIT: I admit at first I thought, "Wha???" but after thinking about it and doing the math, I realized it wasn't knocking off anyone from the list, nor reducing anyone's bonus.

hiro let me quote haney linden for you again:
"The number of recipients - the 2 percent of landowners earning the most traffic or dwell - increased to 58"
how many recipients? 2 percent of landowners.
which 2 percent? the ones earning the most traffic.

i don't know how you can read that sentence to mean - "the land owners earning more than 2% of the total dwell or traffic" - i just don't know how you did it.

it's very likely there are other avs on that list that are owned by one player using group land to run a club. anshe just happens to be well known.

it's very much like this. if tomorrow the moon exploded and siggy and jonquille both became obsessed with dwell, would their indiependant projects have to be disqualified because they are on the same credit card?

We can argue until we are blue in the face... I don't believe you are understanding how the system works.... You are making assumptions by your interpretation of things... which is fine, that is your right to do so...
Lets change the scenario a bit... lets say I put all 3 of my islands on different accounts, and focused on dwell during my free time, (which I have PLENTY of) I could easily make my islands at least in the top 10 of those awards which would mean LL would be paying ME well over $500 USD, when the highest award is only $250... so in your eyes, you see no problem with this?

i see no problem with this.

you would have spent time promoting each a place of consequence enough for each to hit the top of the list. that is a tough job, considering. with all the work you are putting into promoting your sims as one location you still only hit 3rd (which is quite an accomplsihment in itself).

it's very tough to cheat dwell on that level without just being incredibly stupid. logging in 50 accounts for 6 minutes a piece every day is the stupidest way to make money in SL. if one could log in 5 accounts at a time thats an hours work. every day. 30 hours of work to win a 250 $ prize. so really, it's an award you really have to earn by making real events for real people or paying people to make events for you. this is real work and real contribution. and for the amount of work, it's a pittance, so you really have to do it for enjoyment. if you can run 3 locations and hit #1, #2, and #3, you earned your 750$.
(or 150$ after you pay your tier!)

(oh yeah, and the 50 accounts cost 500$)

I hit 3rd with very little effort, Eclipse isn't even completed and rarely has one or two people on it, then there is Dark Life, but that handles itself, and then Le Cadre, we do one to two events a day, most of the dwell there is from people shopping... So, yeah it would be very little effort to seperate them and get em up a few notches... I can just set a money ball out 24/7 and acomplish that



$500 one time fee in exchange for $750 a month? Why not?

It's not stated clearly, I agree. But simple math shows I'm correct.

There are something like 20,000 members, and the median owned land is 512m^2

that means at least half of the users, at minimum, are landowners. So that's 10,000 people.

By numbers, as you claim, 2% would be 200 people. 58 would mean that there was one quarter of the actual numbers, and so your figures don't work.

Also, consider how the regular dwell system bonus works - L$ are doled out, per day, by percentage of dwell, not by a set number of people. So it's safe to assume that the monthly method works by the same mechanic.

Besides, if it's 2% every month, and it was a set number of people, then you have a major major problem - bounds cases:

Case 1: A tiny minority of people control a big percentage of dwell -
Consequence: Let's say 10 people control 20% of dwell... that means you're rewarding 10 people and then 38 others who pale in comparison? That doesn't make sense.

Case 2: Dwell is spread out fairly smoothly -
Consequence: Let's say the 58 people picked all have about 0.1% of dwell total each ... and then the next 58 people have about 0.09% each - why should people get the bonus for only a slightly better increase?

No, it's clear that what makes a lot more sense is to say, "Hey, let's look at who is making the top 2% of dwell, and reward them as the best of the best."

The only other possible way I could see this happening is that Linden Lab goes through, by hand, and decides where the cusp should be every month... in which case, they wouldn't be basing it on arbitrary ratio of total players, but by the percentage anyway... so either case, my assumptions are founded by sound reasoning and evidence.

english is my third language but i'm still convinced that there is a distinct difference between "the 2 percent of landowners earning the most traffic or dwell" (which haney said) and "the landowners earning more than 2% of the dwell" or "the land owners who earning the most traffic or dwell, limited to 2% of the total dwell." if your numbers are right, your model/interpretation makes more sense.

where did you get the land stats?

Agreed with the ambiguous language, and you speak English fairly well


Philip's weekly economic stats includes this. Note it's median, not mean.

EDIT: But actually there's another model to consider that I actually think is more of what Haney meant. Sorry for me being unclear:

10000 dwell total
100 users
2% cap

A - 75 dwell - 0.75% - cumulative 0.75%
B - 50 dwell - 0.5% - cumulative 1.25%
C - 40 dwell - 0.4% - cumulative 1.65%
D - 35 dwell - 0.35% - cumulative 2%
------------------------- 2% cusp
E - 20 dwell - 0.2%
F - 10 dwell - 0.1%
... etc ...

And with Anshe being C and D:
A - 75 dwell - 0.75% - cumulative 0.75%
C+D - 75 dwell - 0.4% - cumulative 1.5%
B - 50 dwell - 0.5% - cumulative 2%
------------------------- 2% cusp
E - 20 dwell - 0.2%
F - 10 dwell - 0.1%
... etc ...

And with Anshe having C and E:

A - 75 dwell - 0.75% - cumulative 0.75%
C+E - 60 dwell - 0.6% - cumulative 1.35%
B - 50 dwell - 0.5% - cumulative 1.85%
------------------------- 2% cusp
D - 35 dwell - 0.35% - cumulative 2.2%
F - 10 dwell - 0.1%
... etc ...

What's interesting in this example is a few things:
1. It works almost exactly like my previous model
2. If you have one alt that is below the cusp, it actually not only HURTS you as far as bonus goes, but can allow MORE people to be on the list. -- In the last two cases, "D" is on the list when Anshe has two characters, one below the cusp, and "D" is OFF the list when Anshe is just one character.

So really, Anshe having multiple characters might actually be BENEFITING other players.

Lol, this thread is ridiculous

At 11th of August I bought one sim and my land holdings jumped to one point that put me at top of leaders list of land owners. Until that very day I enjoyed nice peace. Only two days later I was harassed all over. This is when I decided put most my land on group as to not provoke jealousy as much.

From August until now I estimate that 60%-80% of my developer award was lost because of using group. For several months group dwell was not counted at all and after that most was lost because my alt accounts did not make it to the list. In August I was #4 on developer award list. After this you found me somewhere at, dunno, 10? 20? While my land holdings and overal traffic multiplied!

But I didn't care because I never made developer incentives part of my business model. It would pay maybe 2% of my tier fees. It is even just fraction compared to money I pay every month for event and project sponsoring.

Personally of course I would prefer if Linden Lab would simply add up dwell from all my accounts and just give me one developer award. This would also add the dwell lost to other account that did not make it into top list and bring me more money. And the people who just complained on this thread would get less money

As for people pushed from the list: the current number of people on list is 58. This is very odd number. I rather believe that Linden Lab decided on some minimum amount of dwell that qualifies for the award than fixed number of accounts.

My suggestion: Work hard improve your own content so it attract more people. Counting other people's money will never build one castle

This is exactly what has been the case. I estimate that other players received about 1000 US$ more in developer incentive than would have received otherwise during past 6 months.

Also, to put this whole discussion into proper perspective: During recent three months what I received was Oct 54$, Nov 73$, Dec 76$.

Developer awards I gave away to SL content creators (not hiring people, but donations) last month was about 200$. Not counting any other charity donations, n00bs money or event sponsoring. Surprised? Well, I just don't make big public relations event out of supporting projects.

I'd agree the dwelloper incentives aren't really making a dent, but at the same time having multiple accounts getting one is....how to to put this.....shady at best.

You're still a forum-spammer though.

Are we still obsessed with try make peepee on Anshe Chung's white skirt, Maxx?

Unfortunately I have to tell you that your continued efforts to hit on my reputation are only revealing about yourself

I really don't need the 'golden shower' scenario, kthx. Try to keep the posts to subtle jabs, its all we expect. I don't deal in kink, but perhaps some of your customers do...

Sorry, but I am open girl and like to name things by what they are. I am not into subtle jabs or sneaky information warfare. Maybe you think you are k3wl with your constant "subtle jabs" directed at me.

Boy, it's a good thing we have this "refrain from naming names" rule on the forums. It's *so* stopped threads that are personal attacks.

C'mon, guys. So Anshe has an alt. So she uses it to own land. And so LL gave both accounts dwelloper money. Doesn't mean anything EVIL is happening. Doesn't mean there are any grave miscarriages of justice.

Seems like every time the incentive list comes out, there's a thread on the forums screaming about how the Second Sky is Falling. Phpppppppppppt.

So 'golden shower' is 'asshole' where you're from? Wow, no wonder we have trouble understanding each other

Please direct me to the nearest translation dictionary that contains your beautiful and unique vernacular, I *so* want to express my full range of feelings on all kinds of topics with you, with your full understanding, of course.

Here’s some clarification of the Developer Incentive awards –

It is OK for one person to own land with alternate accounts and for more than one alternate account to receive a Developer Incentive award.

The total amount of the US$ we award grows each month based on the growth of all paying users. For January the total was US$4,004.

The number of accounts getting an award each month is based on 2% of the total number of landowners – in the month of January this % was equal to 58 accounts. We award the 58 accounts that received the most traffic.

The way we figure the US$ award for each of those 58 accounts: we add up all the traffic received by the 58 accounts, then figure the percentage of that total that each account received, and then multiple that percentage by the total we give out. There is no cap for any particular account.

Dividing land between alt accounts does not increase the total reward. There is a danger that one of your alt accounts won’t make it on to the list which would substantially decrease the total award.

Linden is always looking for ways to improve the Developer Incentive awards so we’d be happy to hear suggestions. But please refrain from attacking other people in this thread.

It's pretty easy for people to have alternate accounts in SL, and still receive awards and such. Also, the award system has been abused in the past, so this thread doesn't make much of a difference. This has nothing to do with this particular situation, since the abuse of the dwell system is happening and the system is easy to exploit.

58x50 = 2900. Are you saying there are only 2900 landowners in SL?

How then, according to economic statistics, is the median land owned 512m if we have tens of thousands of users? But if there are only 2900 landowners in SL, and the median land owned is 512m and not 0m, then at least half of users are landowners. So this would mean that at most, SL has 2900x2 = 5800 users.

Something doesn't fit here, Haney, and I'm very curious what it is. Do we have 5800 users, because I seem to remember numbers to be said to be higher? Are we talking active accounts? Accounts that logged in during the month?