Consistent Message: SL is/isn't a game

Hitler should be forgiven.

Another AMEN to that! That is what my recent thread concerning forum critics of accomplishment was about and people tried to rip me a new one denying this problem exists.

Concerning the game vs virtual world issue, the beauty of SL is that it can be what we choose. If you want a game you can have it; if you want a virtual world there it is!

Come on Cris, even Bonnie and Clyde are romanticized!

It's amazing that certain people get a free pass for their "vile" behavior, and others don't...

What is the goal of dungeons and dragons?

SL has goals, the rules of play simply allow you to pick them.

This is not acceptable. I am neither being argumentive nor loyal to anyone. I have stated my opinions.

And 3 Hail Marys!

What will Enabran do now that you two think he should be banned?!!!!!

ZOMFG!

I am so innocent, and btw, "get a life", "grow up", and "stick in in your ear!"

Nah, I think it's very acceptible, that officer list is VERY telling... Are you going to report me now? Or are you going to send me to bed without supper now mom?

I promise that if you make 11 million a year played games of basketball, the irs will tax your earings and basketball will still be a game.

Oh and what is the contest in DnD?

The fact that there are many different definitions of the word "game" makes it harder to claim that SL isn't a game, not easier.

To show that SL isn't a game, you have to show that it doesn't fit any of those possible definitions. It is easy to show that SL isn't a kind of hunting quarry, but it's a different matter to show it isn't an amusement or pastime.

I'm not trying to pick and choose definitions, i.e. reject some and accept others. I don't have to do that. I can accept all the definitions of "game" that are out there, and still assert that SL is a game, since it fits at least one of them. To assert that SL isn't a game, on the other hand, you have to reject some of the known definitions.

Another way of saying this, like in my previous post, is that SL easily fits within the loosely defined concept of a game.

You will never convince me that piling on exists. What I have seen is people individually respond, and develop a history with a particular poster. When said poster affects enough people in a certain way, individuals will respond to them based upon that. Or, for example, in the case of Katy's post, enough people took umbrage with the original post to respond with their opinions. Can only one person respond? What about 2? 5? 10? Which one of us gets to be the representative for the opposing view?

I am happy you are so convinced it is going to end. How exactly is it going to end? The forums have existed as they have for over two years, and if anything are moderated less heavily than they have been in the past.

Utterly vile is a bit extreme, don'tcha think? You know the most utterly vile personal attack I have ever seen in these forums? "You are a waste of human sperm". That was pretty low. Though I have to admit, "fuck your opinions" is pretty highly up there. Can't imagine you hit the report trigger for that one, now did you?

Leveling and loot.

As for your first "point", the word "professional" precedes the words "basketball player", and indicates that it is first and foremost a job.

It's all about context too, you know. We are talking about SL compared to games, ones that are not a profession, i.e, EQ, WoW, etc. Picking the best dictionary entry to fit your argument and bringing up professional sports is not really germaine to the argument presented by the folks who are so wound up about this.

And please read this: /120/0e/58756/12.html#post618428

Hold onto that straw brother!

Nah, you're rejecting the bulk of the definitions.

Many of them specifically mention a contest. More than those which do not, in fact. You simply ignore those and cling to this "loose defintion" you are inventing to suit your view. Clever, but not so clever.

Word games are fun though.

I'm sure someone in game can assist you with the "I've been a bad boy, Mommy. Are you going punish me?" scenario. It's not my thing so I won't be helping you out with that.

You can keep your bait, I'm not planning on going fishing right now either.

As far as D&D goes, there are really two distinct groups of people. There are the roleplayers, who attempt to portray their characters as accurately as possible, and there are the rollplayers, who try to amass wealth, fame, and/or power. Furthermore, in almost all D&D campaigns, there is generally a Big Bad Evil Guy who consistently opposes the party. His defeat is the ultimate goal of most campaigns, or at least the story-arcs therein. Though similar factions exist in SL, the two are not directly analagous. You continue to miss the point. SL can be used to play games, including D&D, but SL is not a game. It's just a tool for communication, collaboration, and commercialization. What you choose to do with it is completely up to you.

It's like using a screwdriver as a hammer, and then arguing that all screwdrivers are hammers. It's asinine and it's counterproductive. The fact that this debate/argument is even still going on is ultimately proof that the SL forum culture needs to be lobotomized. This may be one of the most pointless debates in the history of our race. Congratulations.

Man alive, this thing is still going? Linden Lab really needs to get an adwords account for these forums so they can start making money from all these eyeballs glued to the drama.



Something like that. Eh? Eh?

Meh.

Also, I find it amusing that everyone who resents that SL is not a game latches on so seethingly to the "monetize their efforts" business when socializing and networking are also given such prominant billing.

Ah, but without something to bitch about, what would we ever discuss here?

You started fishing when you engaged me. You can have your bait back. Can I keep the fish though? I don't want to go to bed hungry.

And I do think it's your "thing". Apparently you don't understand (or would like us to believe that you don't) satire based upon past experiences. *shrug*

I don't think there is a contest built into the levellin and loot aspects of the game. In fact most roleplpaying games are very open-ended and cannot be won, and are not one, the purpose of the game is participation. Also there is nothing anywhere that says you cannot make money at a game. The fact that some people play the game professsionaly does not alter the nature of basketball as a game. The fact that someone can make $100,000 US dollars a year doesn't alter the nature of second life as a game. Its a closed controlled environment, yes it has far reaching possibilities as to how it is played, and the goals of play can be set by the players. But prims work the same for everyone, as to the mechanics of play, and money and property in world are not liquid-they need to undergoe a conversion step.

Secondly the professional applications of the platform are limited, and interconnectivity with other systems is no existent. Yes there may be applications developed in the furture that assist people in engaging in real world commerce, but the so called meta verse is far from being a force in the international data exchange market. SL is not the internet. In its current configuration it is not likely to replace the internet. I have not yet seen a direct prototyping applications as most prototyping can be done faster and more easily with CAD.

The products and services in SL are by and large of limted use to anyone outside the SL community. Yes, at least one game developer has taken a game out of SL, but that can happen with any hobby (again look at the spin offs to DnD inspired by the OGL). I am not sure that the Dev.s at Valve or Sony are losing sleep because the next generation of Games might be developed on SL.

So I am waiting to here what this "platform" does apart from make a lot of money for people who participate in its closed enviroment, or provide a very sophisticated method of playing virtual house or Barbie. I don't call it a game to belittle anyone's accomplishments, but to suggest that this "platform" is ready to be considered a very serious application for doing anything but playing it, is just way off base.

"Get a life," "Grow up," and "Stick it in your ear," is what I might say when I get tired of being followed around, hounded with little drawings, nasty remarks, and unsolicited psychological analyses of my character by someone I DO NOT EVEN KNOW.

Reporting is what I do when trying to get it to go away no longer works.

I never said I thought he should be banned.

I do think he should be stopped in his tracks from mounting these campaigns against people he doesn't like, via personal attacks.

This needs to come to an end - against me, or against anyone.

coco

I think your campaign against Enabran needs to end as well. Where's that irony sign at? Someone post it for me!

Please enlighten the thread as to which cerebrate of the Noljuabran collective overmind you're referring to as he. Or maybe the whole collective. I'd also like to know more about this campaign. It sounds very dramatic! :D

You need to find a new D&D group. A campaign which has no definite story, no climax, no accomplishment, no denoument, must be an incredibly boring campaign indeed. Do you just walk around killing random stuff?

In all fairness, though, I don't think one or two people disagreeing with me is a campaign. It's uh, annoying when it becomes so dramatized, but we all need our entertainment, I guess.

Now, the forums. The forums are a game.

I dunno what we're all still playing for, though. Ulrika won a long ass time ago.

/me hurls a wad of paper, shrieking "Lightning bolt!"

Well in Sl the competion is to amass linden from players. Who do you communcate with? Other players. Who do you collaborate with, other players. A game liek world of warcraft is every bit as effective a replacement chatroom as SL. People can IM, communicate face to face and even send e-mail. And people make money playing games all the time. SL has a tool set that allows you to enjoy SL, and make of it what you will. But the "platform" has no application beyond itself.

Just a simple reminder to please refrain from personally attacking one another in the forums. There is some good discussion going on in this thread so I'll leave it open.