Linden Labs why are you doing this to us?

LF, this is why forums are a privelege.

Eventually, SL will have to cater to all sorts of people far more stubborn than Susie. But, at least we shouldn't have to listen to them ridicule the devs in the public forum.

A reasonable solution. Much more so than a lot seen here.

This next sentence is scary. I wish more people would follow Ryen's example.

I still don't know why I'm not getting the product I am paying for despite all you guys trying to be so helpful and such. Of well I swear this is my last post in this thread for tonight.

Please refer to where LF pointed out that you are paying for this, because of the EULA you signed.

You're paying $200 a month for the privilege of being able to log into a closed-source system that may or may not be up at any point in time within the next 400,000 years. There is zero guarantee (read: none) that LLabs has any obligation to keep the service running for any amount of time.

OH NOES THAT IS HORRIBLE I CANCEL RIGHT NOW KBYE

But wait, that's standard procedure... well, everywhere. ISPs, other game companies, Fortune 500 companies... everyone that doesn't specifically build their business on "99.9% uptime" has a clause in their ToS (which you signed, btw) that says "well, if the service is down, we'll try to fix it, but... meh".

So consider the 200 dollars a month as a waste if you must, I'm sure there are 10 more people that would gladly pay for your land and continue the clubsinoall tradition.

LF

I guess I lied. What is the clubsinoall tradition? I don't own own any clubs nor do I go to them.

Actually it has the obligation to provide the service as per the contract that LL agreed to when you signed up. That's why in cases where significant downtime was not fore-seen they do reimburse for any in game loss. So, sorry there bucko you clearly don't understand how capitalism works. Then again I get the feeling most folks here don't get logic either.


Actually again you're totally mistakened about the basics of the service industries. When a customer squawks they usually give away said service for free for that time only. Then again I just happen to be the service industry.

This does not invalidate the trader principle here. If LL cannot respond properly then Susie is right to complain. If you bought something you have the right to have it properly function, nuff said. Unless you're a socialist, you probably would agree too.

-- Bridget

The problem is, Bridget, that obligation does not include the service being up for any quantative time. They do not specify that the service will be availble thirty, fourty, ninety or any other percent of the time. They have no obligation to have it up and running right now.

Good ass LORD LF where the hell do you think all the expansion, new customers and rapid growth came from?

Have you checked out the new marketing campaign LL has all over slashdot and everydamn where else?

They just finished reshuffling the marketing department to focus on bringing in more customers from other resources hitherto untapped.

All these new folks just didn't wander in here by ACCIDENT. So sorry if people have issues with a company that courts new customers and more revenue and is caught with their pants down ie unprepared to handle the unflux.

Yer supposed to boldster up the bridge before you gallop your armies accross it.

*shakes head sadly* Wake up its a brand new day up in here. People dont just stumble onto SL, or have their cousin invite them to play. I meet new people every day, and one of the questions I get around to asking them is how they heard about SL.

Nine times out of 10 is has been from articles on the web, ads for SL on websites they frequent and other high traffic areas hit by LL's agressive advertizing campaigns.

A year ago when I was looking around for another 3-D evironment to hang out at it was HARD to find SL. Now it SLAPs you in the eye everytime you turn around. Its not a startup anymore and its high time some folks around here realized this. THATS the frustration of many people in here.

We got paying customers expecting certain things for their money, not some little crowd of beta testers all banding together to help the little company that could. Thats over with.

Trust me I FEEL for the LL employees. I been there done that having to handle a situation just like this right at the crux of the dot.com fallout in California back in the day. I also feel for people like Susie et al - customers stuck in the middle wondering wtf.

*falls off chair laughing* nah it's YOU thats missing the point - THEY get paid to love it while WE pay to love it.

One message from Phil, 'hey guys we messed up with 1.6', would have saved a thousand angry posts.



NOBODY pays $200 a month for a privilage Lordfly - they pay for a product. You keep posting 'go away and play something else' messages and one of these days they will.

Guys - 1.6 is messed up, we ALL know this by now but just put it down to human error and grit your teeth ok? Go put some cool tunes on your crackle box and I'll see you all on Tuesday when things are kicking again yeah?

I, for one, knew this software was going to be an 'eternal beta' from the time I saw it.

What does that mean?

It means that it's nature is to be expanded and redesigned on a constant basis, and that some new designs would be 'problem incarnate', since they have no baseline to figure out what a change will cause.

Look at the last changes they made, I can guess as to what happened:

They tried to improve the sim-crossing problems by having the sims save each attachment when you cross. This improved the stability of attachments when using TP and crossing sims.

BUT...

This increased the stress on the asset server by a factor of I-don't-know, and it began acting flaky trying to keep up with the demands on it's time.

Now no-one can login, and the problem is growing as the asset server is hammered more and more.

New patch is developed to reduce this new stress by only saving when the item changes. Will this cause another problem when expanded to include the entire user base?

No one knows until it either works or buggers itself.


This software is developed by trial-and-error. There is no way to predict what changes will have what effect without a past experience, and each new change negates that experience in part.

Heck, even one minor and innoculus change could wreak ungodly havoc when multiplied by 20,000 users.

And just to put this in perspective, look at nasa. They hold a brain-trust enviable by most of the world, and they still screw up on a regular basis, because they are having to improvise half the time.

And we expect better from LL? You're right. It's not an act of God. The Lindens are not Gods. They are people trying to build something never done before, and occasionally making mistakes.

Worse yet, they can't afford to admit mistakes, because in todays society, it leaves them open to litigation. They don't tell us what's going on because they can't afford to fight some poor bastard who's trying to make a living in SL, even though everyone was warned the software could undergo downtime and changes.

You want to complain? Go ahead. You're paying money, and have the right. Just understand that it won't stop it from happening...

And for what it's worth, I sympathize with everyone involved, Linden and User. It's not fun finding out your toy is broken when you go to play with it...

I am going to take the unpopular posistion here and know I will get my ass flamed for it. So save me the drama.

It is a game. It's down boo hoo. Turn off the computer, go outside and take a walk in the sunshine. You remember the outdoors it is where they keep the real trees and grass?

If your dumb enough to shell out 200 bucks for a video game. You should bitching at yourself for staking that kind of money on something that is not a exact science. No matter what the hardware and software people would like you to think. There is not a computer on the planet that runs forever with out a crash or a glitch.

In a nut shell. Get over it.

You're wrong. Any service you pay for is a privilege. It is not a God-Given right, the US constitution does not grant you 100% uptime from SL. Nor does their terms of service.

Seriously, everyone is TOTALLY FREAKING OUT GRARGH over a god damned recreational vehicle. Do you guys complain over every malfunctioning entertainment module this loud? Skipping dvds, dead air radio stations, and so on? Do you find their forums and post and post and post and post while people are trying to fix your problems?

Get a fucking grip on reality. Go outside.

LF

No, you missed the point; they don't get paid for working all weekend without sleep to fix the problem, while people snipe and bitch at them that they are being somehow victimed of some grande atrocity.

If you compare 1.6's rollout to 1.5 or even 1.4, things were a whole lot smoother, believe it or not. There are always going to be bugs with any software release with new features. Philip (i've heard he doesn't like Phil) saying that 1.6 was messed up would be like saying, "Programs have bugs."

And why would Philip have to do it? There have been plenty of posts updating the status of patching and known issues. Isn't that why you hire a staff of people?

Now, I'm going outside, enjoying the warm sunny afternoon, maybe playing with my Nerf woosh and my girlfriend (double entendre intended just to be lighthearted), and not worrying about whether it'll take me extra time to log in.

Then, later, when I have time, I'm logging into preview grid and helping to make sure the bugs are fixed, because I realize complaining won't.

While I agree with you in most aspects Lordfly, coming from the service industry and dealing with resources most of my entire life... I can say you are not completely correct here.

There are laws governing "services" that underly even TOS's. If a client pays for a service and the host is unable to provide that service in a timely consistant manor you better believe that TOS will be torn apart in courts. If this was a free service then that TOS would have alot more weight behind it, since we do pay for the service with the understanding of getting a service in return, then that service must be provided.

Philip already did, posted it in the general forums quoting him.



I would love to log into the preview grid... unfortunately LL does not deem it necesary to keep a current user db for it... which tends to make me wonder if LL is all that worried about testing it.

Aside from the aparent personal attack. Perhaps you should take your own medicine and stop posting if it bothers you so much others are expressing their opinions in a free country.