What does the Christian God want from us?
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-20-2005 07:13
From: Selador Cellardoor If you speak of God you are speaking of the Christian deity. That is the name of the Christian deity. If you were speaking of Allah, you would be speaking of the Muslim deity. If you wish your religious views to be considered apart from religion, why do you refer to your deity or controlling intelligence in Christian terms?
Ok - you don't blame any religion for the acts of a few. Unfortunately religion seems to prevent people from developing their own system of ethics. Also it provides them with a way of justifying their own immoral or unethical behaviour. I have met *one* Christian in my life who truly led a Christian lifestyle - in other words in accord with the moral teachings of Christ. One. I have also met a lot of unpleasant, immoral Christians who have used their religion as a justification for their own, unpleasant, immoral personalities.
Yes, I also accept every decent person regardless of their faith, and value any opinion that is logical. When I was talking about God, I was talking about a creator of what we see. Unfortunately, for many it's impossible to see God as anything other than how religions depict. To deny the existence of a creator based on the fact one dislikes religions would be to allow other people(religions) to dictate one's realm of study. If Christ's teachings are correct and people twist them, are you blaming the faith in Christ, or those who twist scripture? If Christ's teaching were to treat others well, even enemies, how is it anyone is using Christianity to justify their unpleasant, immoral personalities?
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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10-20-2005 10:00
From: Ghoti Nyak The history of this stuff gets really interesting when you start to bring in ancient non-biblical references and start to compare and contrast the entities discussed.
-Ghoti
[edited for spelling] Ah, that's for sure. If there were intellectual property rights regarding monotheistic belief, a cosmic struggle between good and evil supernaturals, a messiah cameo, the final battle being won by the good &c - the Zoroastrians would own it. I hear that there are something like 150,000 faithful nowadays. It always fascinates me when Christians comment on this - it ranges from rejection to inclusion. http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/ZoroastrThe entire history of the universe, past, present, and future, the religion teaches, is divided into four periods, each of 3,000 years. In the first period there was no matter; the second preceded the coming of Zoroaster; and in the third his faith is propagated. The struggle between good and evil rages during the first nine millennia, and humans help Ahura Mazdah or Ahriman according to whether their conduct is good or evil. Each person after death crosses the Chinvato Peretav [bridge of the separator], which spans hell. If he is reprobate, the bridge narrows and he tumbles to perdition, but if he is worthy of salvation he finds a wide road to the realm of light. In the fourth period of the universe a savior, Saoshyant, will appear, the dead will rise for their final reward or punishment, and good will reign eternally. Zoroastrianism should be regarded as quasi-dualistic, rather than (as sometimes described) wholly dualistic, since it predicts the ultimate triumph of Ahura Mazdah. This god may be represented in the form of the pure natural substances that he has created, notably fire but also water and earth. The special veneration shown to fire and its use in religious ceremonies has led to the erroneous belief that the Zoroastrians were fire worshipers. The care taken to avoid contaminating these natural substances led to great elaboration of the purification ritual.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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10-20-2005 11:02
From: Ghoti Nyak Not according to the way I learned it. The Christian/Judaic god's name is either Jehovah or Yahweh, depending on which scholar you ask.
I think what he means is that "God," capital "G" (like Ghandi or George), denotes the Judeo-Christian god (not that it literally is his name). If Kevn is using God as his deity, then it naturally leads us to believe that that is his idol. I know Selador said "name" but I think he means that that is how He is generally referred to; "God" is the Judeo-Christian god's handle. I don't think you'll find too many Christian preachers praying aloud to Yahweh or Elohim or whatever.
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-20-2005 11:54
From: Chance Abattoir I think what he means is that "God," capital "G" (like Ghandi or George), denotes the Judeo-Christian god (not that it literally is his name). If Kevn is using God as his deity, then it naturally leads us to believe that that is his idol. I know Selador said "name" but I think he means that that is how He is generally referred to; "God" is the Judeo-Christian god's handle. I don't think you'll find too many Christian preachers praying aloud to Yahweh or Elohim or whatever. god ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gd) n. 1. God A. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions. B. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being. 2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality. 3. An image of a supernatural being; an idol. 4. One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god. 5. A very handsome man. 6. A powerful ruler or despot All of those religions use the word God but translated in their language. We have many names for the God of the Bible, including "I AM". People without religion use the word God to describe a supernatural creator, even tho they don't believe. The word god with a small "g" denotes a lessor god than the creator.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
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10-20-2005 12:04
From: Kevn Klein god ( P ) Pronunciation Key (gd) n. 1. God A. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
All of those religions use the word God but translated in their language. We have many names for the God of the Bible, including "I AM". People without religion use the word God to describe a supernatural creator, even tho they don't believe.
Yep. And what monotheistic religions are we most likely to encounter? Generally, in the States, God means the Judeo-Chritian God. I think that was Selador's point.
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-20-2005 12:12
From: Chance Abattoir Yep. And how what monotheistic religions are we most likely to encounter? Generally, in the States, God means the Judeo-Chritian God. I think that was Selador's point. The USA is a melting pot with nearly every religion known to man represented. But what really is the issue here is some people have a hard time focusing on a topic and would rather focus on other people. What does it matter what people believe personally? Is this a suggestion everyone is so biased by their beliefs they can't be objective ever? If that's the case, no one can ever be objective because everyone has core beliefs. Therefore, all discussion must end to stop people spreading their opinions(core beliefs). The point of my use of a capital "G" in the word God is to show respect to my core belief. You can spell it as you wish.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
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10-20-2005 13:17
From: Kevn Klein The USA is a melting pot with nearly every religion known to man represented.
Me<-- Kicks someone's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother's mother.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-20-2005 13:58
God is an imaginary friend for adults.
~Ulrika~
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-20-2005 14:01
From: Kevn Klein Read the article again, he said "That means that the amoeba is, of course, a manifestation of consciousness, and so is the human being." Until that sentence I've never heard amoebas described as conscious. It's that kind of out-of-the-box thinking that makes his pseudoscience so enjoyable to read.  ~Ulrika~
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
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10-20-2005 15:07
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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10-20-2005 15:11
'He' doesn't want anything, because 'he' can't, for 'he' doesn't exist.
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
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10-20-2005 15:12
Cyanide sold me my first AA gun. 
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"The mob requires regular doses of scandal, paranoia and dilemma to alleviate the boredom of a meaningless existence." -Insane Ramblings, Anton LaVey
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Garnet Psaltery
Walking on the Moon
Join date: 12 Apr 2005
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10-21-2005 04:51
From: Ulrika Zugzwang God is an imaginary friend for adults. ~Ulrika~ No She isn't.
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
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10-21-2005 06:43
From: Ulrika Zugzwang God is an imaginary friend for adults.
~Ulrika~ That's a rather interesting POV  I prefer the term "emotional crutch".
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-21-2005 07:41
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Until that sentence I've never heard amoebas described as conscious. It's that kind of out-of-the-box thinking that makes his pseudoscience so enjoyable to read.  ~Ulrika~ Ulrika, I posted that in response to your suggestion a fly has a conscious mind and might be the consciousness that brought the universe into existence. Perhaps you were thinking a fly would be conscious because it can fly. btw, How's it going with the baby? Getting enough sleep? Thanks for the reply
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Nicolette Poutine
Registered User
Join date: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 27
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Glad I am Pagan
10-24-2005 20:02
Never have these questions to ask. LoL, I don't believe that the gods "created" anything. They were spirits, as we will be part of them someday. And life has evolved. No explanation to the beginning, no explanation to the end. I'm an idiot in bliss.
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Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
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10-24-2005 20:50
From: Dark Korvin I'll start this with a series of observations and questions. 1. God prefers blood sacrifice to grain sacrifice. He wanted the complete wipe out of the people in the promised land. He needed the blood of Jesus before he could forgive us. Does God want blood?
-The blood is the life as Dracula once said. Life is more precious and therefore a greater gift than grain. It was a greater sacrifice. The people in the promise land had to be wiped out to start over. This is not the first time it happened in the Bible. Look at Soddom and Gamorrah. On the other hand, God spared Nod when they repented. 2. Forgiveness for sin was impossible until someone innocent died. "Daddy I made a bo-bo." "That is alright Dark, we will just kill little Jesus my son so that I can forgive you." "Thank you Daddy for spilling his blood so that I could live forever." Why does God need innocent blood?
-God came to Earth as Jesus in order to understand the human condition. Jesus was the final sacrifice to make it easier for us to gain forgiveness because clearly the other methods proved too complicated. 3. Jesus says "Love your enemies," yet God will destroy Satan in the end. God says "Do not kill," yet many other times he very clearly commands people to kill those that have been identified as evil. Does God want us to lovingly destroy the enemies we consider evil?
-God says "vengeance is mine". In other words no killing unless He sanctions it. You'll not that Moses didn't get to see the Promised Land because he committed an unsanctioned murder. 4. Prophets and Jesus liked to compare God to a shepherd of the sheep(his flock). What do shepherds do with sheep?
-They protect their sheep from the wolves. 5. Sin is supposed to end when God completes his work in those that have had faith in his son. Can a person have free will when it becomes impossible to do things God does not like?
-Wrong. Sin doesn't end-we just become aware of it and strive not to commit it. But we are human and therefore fallible. That's where forgiveness comes in. These observations and questions are not meant to claim that God is fake or that the Bible is false. These are things I see when reading the Bible, and I am interested in both explanations of my misunderstanding as well as further confusions others have. Hope this helps (and hasn't been said already cuz I haven't read the whole thread, yet  ) -Kiamat Dusk Unrepentant Christian
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"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho' "Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom" From: Vares Solvang Eat me, you vile waste of food. (Can you spot the irony?) http://writing.com/authors/suffer
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-24-2005 22:24
From: Kevn Klein Ulrika, I posted that in response to your suggestion a fly has a conscious mind and might be the consciousness that brought the universe into existence. Perhaps you were thinking a fly would be conscious because it can fly. A fly? I never mentioned a fly in my post. Fool.From: someone btw, How's it going with the baby? Getting enough sleep? You are really giving me the creeps. There was another religious zealot a few months back who gave me the willies like you. Hmm. Given your inability to reason coupled with your generic creepiness, I'm going to say that you are Billy Grace's alt. ~Ulrika~
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-24-2005 22:25
God is an imaginary friend for adults.
~Ulrika~
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
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10-24-2005 23:18
I know what god wants.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
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10-24-2005 23:32
From: Ulrika Zugzwang God is an imaginary friend for adults. ~Ulrika~ Hahaha... you sound almost like my little brother, he observed the other day, "If you really want to offend a Christian, ask them to tell you about God and then say 'It's great you're getting to know your imaginary friend better'! and then watch for their reaction." He didn't mean it seriously but it set off alarm bells in my imagination.
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-25-2005 06:15
From: Ulrika Zugzwang A fly? I never mentioned a fly in my post. Fool. You are really giving me the creeps. There was another religious zealot a few months back who gave me the willies like you. Hmm. Given your inability to reason coupled with your generic creepiness, I'm going to say that you are Billy Grace's alt. ~Ulrika~ Sweetie pie, you did mention a fly "Why not observation by a cat or fly?". Could it be that you get the creeps when people are nice to you? I can imagine you might not be used to it. As for Billy Grace... I don't know him, but if you want to think I'm his alt it's cool with me. As long as he doesn't mind. Kisses and hugs my sweetie
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-25-2005 08:48
From: Kevn Klein As for Billy Grace... I don't know him, but if you want to think I'm his alt it's cool with me. As long as he doesn't mind. You two should get together. I think there might be a full brain between you two. ~Ulrika~
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
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10-25-2005 08:53
From: Ulrika Zugzwang You two should get together. I think there might be a full brain between you two.
~Ulrika~ Aww, you are so sweet. I feel the love. I know one only insults those one loves. So, I love you too, darling
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Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
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10-25-2005 09:38
From: Kevn Klein The USA is a melting pot with nearly every religion known to man represented..... There is just so much wrong with this sentence ... and the funny part is it's almost certainly unintentional on your part. Parochialism, mixed metaphors, hyperbole, paternalist (sexist) language and outright misinformation in 13 words or less!  I am guessing that you are a white, American, Christian oriented male?
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