What does the Christian God want from us?
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-28-2005 18:15
From: Kevn Klein Luke 6:35 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Hey Kevn, I understand that there will be rewards for right minded works (fruit), but I am not sure that the Bible tells us exactly WHAT those rewards are. But to me, just being there with Jesus will be enough.  |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-28-2005 18:17
From: Kurgan Asturias Hey Kevn, I understand that there will be rewards for right minded works (fruit), but I am not sure that the Bible tells us exactly WHAT those rewards are. But to me, just being there with Jesus will be enough. Mmm. Jesus-freak love. ~Ulrika~
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-28-2005 18:26
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Mmm. Jesus-freak love.
~Ulrika~ There is no Ulrika, there is no Ulrika, there is no Ulrika... LOL And yes, I guess you could call me a Jesus freak... Chuck Smith is the one man that I can point to as a driving force for me to try to find out the truths that I hold to. The rest was, you guessed it, Jesus  |
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Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
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10-28-2005 18:44
From: Kurgan Asturias True.Man, this is a tough one to explain. If it wasn't everyone would flock to it... God wants us to love Him. He wants us to obey Him. Can you quote even a single part of the laws that God sets before us that are detrimental to humans? Now, I am talking about God, not how humans over the ages have interpreted them. He grants immortality to those who choose to follow him. Do not go by what humans have to say, go by what the Bible says, and what God speaks to your heart. No matter what some have said, no one knows who is going to Heaven or Hell but God. He is a fair and just God.tyranny Pronunciation: 'tir-&-nE Function: noun Inflected Form(s): plural -nies Etymology: Middle English tyrannie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin tyrannia, from Latin tyrannus tyrant 1 : oppressive power <every form of tyranny over the mind of man -- Thomas Jefferson>; especially : oppressive power exerted by government <the tyranny of a police state> 2 a : a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler; especially : one characteristic of an ancient Greek city-state b : the office, authority, and administration of a tyrant 3 : a rigorous condition imposed by some outside agency or force <living under the tyranny of the clock -- Dixon Wecter> 4 : a tyrannical act I might be able to agree with 2. But there is no rigorous condition or oppressive power exerted... tyrant Pronunciation: 'tI-r&nt Function: noun Etymology: Middle English tirant, from Old French tyran, tyrant, from Latin tyrannus, from Greek tyrannos 1 a : an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution b : a usurper of sovereignty 2 a : a ruler who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally b : one resembling an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power I would certainly agree that God fits within 1 a) But, is that a bad thing if He is the ultimate love?I would love to give you some quip here that was analogous to what you say, but I can't really. There is nothing here on this Earth that will allow me to fully understand God or His judgments. I will say that if I thought that it was pointless, I would not even be talking with this thread about it. I don't want to see anyone go through that, as Jesus plainly stated God's position on it: 2 Peter 3:9 (AMP) 9 The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people's conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance.There is an important difference here. Jesus did not get killed, He gave Himself up. I don't know how well versed in the Bible you are, but He said, 'It is done' and then died. He did it freely for all of us, willingly. Matthew 27:50 (AMP) And Jesus cried again with a loud voice and gave up His spirit. Mark 15:37 (AMP) And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed out His life. Luke 23:46 (AMP) And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit! And with these words, He expired. John 19:30 (AMP) When Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, It is finished! And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit. But again, you are trying to make a corollary (as I have) that simply does not exist. My neighbor did not create me, his son, or my other neighbors. He did not create the tree that he nailed his son to. He does not have full knowledge of the future and the past. He does not have the power to raise his son from death. He does not have intimate knowledge of his son's mind (or those of his neighbors). Now, an interesting question might be, what would the court say if the body vanished while under trusted guard? Or if his son had gone around performing miracles the thousands had witnessed first hand. Or if his son had spoken to others of what was going to happen before the crucifixion. The problems I have in reading the bible is that I see a God saying kneel to me or you will be destroyed. If I had a king, father, or shepherd talking to me in such a way; I would rebel with all my strength. Jesus focuses on a message of love your neighbors and don't be so uptight with the law. Paul seems to try to reconcile the difference between the message Jesus seems to present and the Jewish beliefs he grew up with that hold the kneel or die mentality. The "good news" gospel to me really throws a wrench into the clockworks as I see God have his son tortured to death to save people. Even though he brought him back to life, it is stated that the death of Jesus is what will causes sin to die in me. My mind just can't grasp this concept. It makes no sense to me. It reminds me of the story in the heritical Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus pushes a child off the roof. I realize that most scholars believe this book was written to make fun of Christians, but the portrayal of Jesus being a child that pushed another child off of the roof then bringing him back to life is similar to how I see the cross. Why does God have his child Jesus killed in a torturous way then bring him back to life. Even if my neighbor hung his child on the tree to the point of death, and had the ability to create that tree and bring his son back; I would still view my neighbor as a sick individual. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-28-2005 18:48
From: Dark Korvin The problems I have in reading the bible is that I see a God saying kneel to me or you will be destroyed. If I had a king, father, or shepherd talking to me in such a way; I would rebel with all my strength. Jesus focuses on a message of love your neighbors and don't be so uptight with the law. Paul seems to try to reconcile the difference between the message Jesus seems to present and the Jewish beliefs he grew up with that hold the kneel or die mentality. The "good news" gospel to me really throws a wrench into the clockworks as I see God have his son tortured to death to save people. Even though he brought him back to life, it is stated that the death of Jesus is what will causes sin to die in me. My mind just can't grasp this concept. It make no sense to me.
It reminds me of the story in the heritical Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus pushes a child off the roof. I realize that most scholars believe this book was written to make fun of Christians, but the portrayal of Jesus being a child that pushed another child off of the roof then bringing him back to life is similar to how I see the cross. Why does God have his child Jesus killed in a torturous way then bring him back to life. Even if my neighbor hung his child on the tree to the point of death, and had the ability to create that tree and bring his son back; I would still view my neighbor as a sick individual. You see things thru human eyes. carnal life is all you understand. So the idea someone would kill their child is repugnant to you. Try to sit in God's seat, without the confines of time, space and material needs. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-28-2005 19:07
From: Kurgan Asturias The rest was, you guessed it, Jesus Praise the lord! ~Ulrika~
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Chance Abattoir
Future Rockin' Resmod
Join date: 3 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,898
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10-28-2005 19:11
From: Desmond Shang I have read a great deal presented here, considered all arguments, and am now about to take a very daring, soul-searching risk. I can only hope not to be disappointed.
Chance, what do you want from us? 1. Thou shalt not use the possessive for contractions or vice-versa.2. Thou shalt divert military forces back to the U.S. and use them to build more commuter railways. This shall be completed in no more than two years and the army is the only organization with the infrastructure to pull it off. Thou shalt have trains out the ass like Tokyo so that demand for oil goes down and we can use petrol products for important things like napalm.3. Thou shalt cut off government subsidization to farmers because it's a big scam. To appease that lobby group's loss of funds, thou shalt give them power-generating windmills. They can sell the power that will be needed to power the extra trains.4. Thou shalt hire consultants for said windmill design in order to prevent them from adversely affecting the raptor population.5. Thou shalt not have religion in school.6. Thou shalt not have religion in school. If you need to reach me, you can contact me directly and without a mediator. I thought we established that back with Martin Luther, you dumb f$#kers.7. Thou shalt not sell school space to advertisers. The mind is the only truly sacred thing there is. Thou shalt not encourage a from-birth consumer society. Tools.8. Thou shalt have a national language. I know it's unfair and possibly racist, but unity begets progress and if you put every language on a set of instructions then you'll have to pay more for your Ikea furniture to cover the printing costs and nobody wants expensive Ikea.9. Thou shalt not use "I" when you're talking about "ME," you illiterate knaves.10. You do not talk about Fight Club.Bonus commandment: Thou shalt not legislate morality as long as there are bigger problems to solve. There's a little thing called "hierarchy of needs," look into it.
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-28-2005 20:18
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Praise the lord!
~Ulrika~ Truly! He is worth every moment of it! |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-28-2005 20:37
From: Kurgan Asturias Truly! He is worth every moment of it!  Fool.
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Kurgan Asturias
Apologist
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 347
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10-28-2005 20:43
From: Dark Korvin The problems I have in reading the bible is that I see a God saying kneel to me or you will be destroyed. If I had a king, father, or shepherd talking to me in such a way; I would rebel with all my strength. I think most of us have, most of our lives. From: Dark Korvin Jesus focuses on a message of love your neighbors and don't be so uptight with the law. Jesus really did not do this. What He said is I will give myself so that you will not have to endure the proper punishment for breaking these laws. But He also said: Matthew 5:17-20 (AMP)17 Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished. 19 Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness (your uprightness and your right standing with God) is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. From: Dark Korvin Paul seems to try to reconcile the difference between the message Jesus seems to present and the Jewish beliefs he grew up with that hold the kneel or die mentality. He actually says that all knees will bow at the proper time: Romans 14:10-12 (AMP)10 Why do you criticize and pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you look down upon or despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written, As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God [acknowledge Him to His honor and to His praise]. [Isaiah 45:23.] 12 And so each of us shall give an account of himself [give an answer in reference to judgment] to God. From: Dark Korvin The "good news" gospel to me really throws a wrench into the clockworks as I see God have his son tortured to death to save people. Even though he brought him back to life, it is stated that the death of Jesus is what will causes sin to die in me. My mind just can't grasp this concept. It makes no sense to me. This is a problem for most people. I have tried to imagine what it would be like to be Abraham or God in sacrificing my oldest child for people who would spit on him. I am not sure that I could do such a thing, even knowing that he would come back. I do not claim to have the love that God does. From: Dark Korvin It reminds me of the story in the heritical Infancy Gospel of Thomas where Jesus pushes a child off the roof. I realize that most scholars believe this book was written to make fun of Christians, but the portrayal of Jesus being a child that pushed another child off of the roof then bringing him back to life is similar to how I see the cross. There have been many such stories throughout the years, and more seem to be popping up all the time (is that you Ulrika?). I do not agree with them either... From: Dark Korvin Why does God have his child Jesus killed in a torturous way then bring him back to life. Well, I wish I could answer that one wholly. Jesus even asked for that cup to be passed from Him. Matthew 26:39 (AMP)39 And going a little farther, He threw Himself upon the ground on His face and prayed saying, My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from Me; nevertheless, not what I will [not what I desire], but as You will and desire. From: Dark Korvin Even if my neighbor hung his child on the tree to the point of death, and had the ability to create that tree and bring his son back; I would still view my neighbor as a sick individual. But, if your neighbor could explain all to you, you might not feel this way. Again, I am not saying that I understand it all. If it was up to me, things would be a lot different. But then again, I am not God, I am not omniscient (I don't even know if Ulrika will reply to yet another post of mine), and I am not all forgiving as I should be. |
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Pratyeka Muromachi
Meditating Avatar
Join date: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 642
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10-28-2005 20:57
God may believe He created the universe if He wants,
That's his choice, but it just shows His ignorance about His true nature...
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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10-29-2005 06:18
From: Pratyeka Muromachi God may believe He created the universe if He wants,
That's his choice, but it just shows His ignorance about His true nature... Huh?!? |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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10-29-2005 09:33
From: Chance Abattoir 1. Thou shalt not use the possessive for contractions or vice-versa.
2. Thou shalt divert military forces back to the U.S. and use them to build more commuter railways. This shall be completed in no more than two years and the army is the only organization with the infrastructure to pull it off. Thou shalt have trains out the ass like Tokyo so that demand for oil goes down and we can use petrol products for important things like napalm.
3. Thou shalt cut off government subsidization to farmers because it's a big scam. To appease that lobby group's loss of funds, thou shalt give them power-generating windmills. They can sell the power that will be needed to power the extra trains.
4. Thou shalt hire consultants for said windmill design in order to prevent them from adversely affecting the raptor population.
5. Thou shalt not have religion in school.
6. Thou shalt not have religion in school. If you need to reach me, you can contact me directly and without a mediator. I thought we established that back with Martin Luther, you dumb f$#kers.
7. Thou shalt not sell school space to advertisers. The mind is the only truly sacred thing there is. Thou shalt not encourage a from-birth consumer society. Tools.
8. Thou shalt have a national language. I know it's unfair and possibly racist, but unity begets progress and if you put every language on a set of instructions then you'll have to pay more for your Ikea furniture to cover the printing costs and nobody wants expensive Ikea.
9. Thou shalt not use "I" when you're talking about "ME," you illiterate knaves.
10. You do not talk about Fight Club.
Bonus commandment:
Thou shalt not legislate morality as long as there are bigger problems to solve. There's a little thing called "hierarchy of needs," look into it. It is all so clear to me now. 1) The theists believe in a god. 2) The atheists believe in chance. 3) Others believe that each one of us is god. 4) Some capitalise the name of god. 5) There are scriptures! This is as close to proof as I have ever seen.
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-29-2005 09:46
From: Desmond Shang 4) Some capitalise the name of god. I used to capitalize it until this thread. Now it will always be lowercase from me. ~Ulrika~
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
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10-29-2005 09:51
I believe that God tells me to touch myself in the shower.
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
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10-29-2005 13:12
From: Neehai Zapata I believe that God tells me to touch myself in the shower. Funny thing, God made our arms the perfect length. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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10-29-2005 13:13
From: Kevn Klein Funny thing, God made our arms the perfect length. Are you saying that your god made arms the perfect length to facilitate masturbation? ~Ulrika~
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
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10-29-2005 13:14
From: Ulrika Zugzwang Are you saying that your god made arms the perfect length to facilitate masturbation?
~Ulrika~ Get your mind out of the gutter... |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-29-2005 13:18
From: Kevn Klein Funny thing, God made our arms the perfect length. Are you saying that your god made arms the perfect length to facilitate masturbation? .~Ulrika~
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Neehai Zapata
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10-29-2005 13:33
From: someone Are you saying that your god made arms the perfect length to facilitate masturbation? .
~Ulrika~ Well, they aren't the perfect length for some of the things I like to do.
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Beclamide Neurocam
3.14159265
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
Posts: 70
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10-29-2005 13:44
From: Hayden Hedges Or he's a cruel bastard who just thought an otter with a ducks beak and a venemous stinger on its back legs would just be really funnny. And if this 'God' bloke is such a loving creator why are so many of his creations so very bad tempered? LMAO |
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Pratyeka Muromachi
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Join date: 14 Apr 2005
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10-29-2005 14:29
From: Kevn Klein Funny thing, God made our arms the perfect length. If there really was a God, it's not the arms that would have been made the perfect lenght... how about placing it closer to ones lips?
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Beclamide Neurocam
3.14159265
Join date: 8 Oct 2005
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10-29-2005 14:30
From: Pratyeka Muromachi If there really was a God, it's not the arms that would have been made the perfect lenght... how about placing it closer to ones lips? LMAO x2 |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
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10-29-2005 17:31
From: Pratyeka Muromachi If there really was a God, it's not the arms that would have been made the perfect lenght... how about placing it closer to ones lips? Proof against intelligent design, if I've ever heard it.  ~Ulrika~
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
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10-29-2005 17:50
From: Neehai Zapata I believe that God tells me to touch myself in the shower. He likes to watch.
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From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
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