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Atheists who attack Christianity
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 05:57
From: Introvert Petunia
The Rapture, of course, duh! Led by Harry Potter, Winston Smith, and Christina Aguilara.



really? I thought it was going to be Sherman Potter, Will Smith and Gwen Stefani.
thanks for enlightening me.
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Maerl Olmstead
Billybobs #1 Fan
Join date: 30 Jun 2006
Posts: 341
07-13-2006 06:32
this is just interesting..dont label me!!!< lol>..here goes:

Bible codes, also known as Torah codes, are words, phrases and clusters of words and phrases that some people believe are meaningful and exist intentionally in coded form in the text of the Bible. These codes were made famous by the book The Bible Code, which claims that these codes can predict the future. These claims are strongly doubted by skeptics and by many religious groups.

The primary method by which purportedly meaningful messages have been extracted is the Equidistant Letter Sequence (ELS). To obtain an ELS from a text, choose a starting point (in principle, any letter) and a skip number, also freely and possibly negative. Then, beginning at the starting point, select letters from the text at equal spacing as given by the skip number. For example, the bold letters in this sentence form an ELS from the word SAFEST. (The skip is -4. Spaces and punctuation are ignored.)

Often more than one ELS related to some topic can be displayed simultaneously in an ELS letter array. This is produced by writing out the text in a regular grid, with exactly the same number of letters in each line, then cutting out a rectangle.


below is a website that shows all major predictions from 2006-2012 it also explains some other elements of the bible codes.


http://www.exodus2006.com/


P.S. aren't these things a little TOO coincidental ...or maybe just TOO SILLY?<grin>..man was i bored
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-13-2006 08:06
From: Billybob Goodliffe
I guess you can chalk me up to this group, please disregard my previous post.


Hey at least you can admit when you were wrong on something, and continue to educate yourself. Good on you!
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-13-2006 08:06
From: Mickey McLuhan
Actually, it would be somebody named Joshua.

Jesus is a Greek translation of Joshua. No-one would have called him Jesus.


Yeshua is also a possibility.
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You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 08:18
From: Jonas Pierterson
Yeshua is also a possibility.



Yeshua and Joshua are the same name.
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Cindy Claveau
Gignowanasanafonicon
Join date: 16 May 2005
Posts: 2,008
07-13-2006 08:25
The Bible code stuff has been well debunked. The Institute of Mathematical Statistics published research 7 years ago that laid this nonsense to rest. The only people defending it are writers selling books and unrepentant literalists who want their book to mean something more than it does.
From: someone
Major Bible scholars ignore the code because, they note, no one has a letter-by-letter version of the Bible as originally written. The oldest surviving manuscripts include slight variations, any of which would throw off computer test results.


In the upcoming edition of Statistical Science, the new study's authors -- Dror Bar-Natan, Maya Bar-Hillel and Gil Kalai, professors at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, and Brendan McKay of the Australian National University -- combine expertise in mathematics and computer science to debunk the theory.

Using other spellings and assumptions, they ran hundreds of tests that repeated the experiment with different variations and applied it to more biblical books.

"Despite a considerable amount of effort," they write, "we have been unable to detect the codes."

This is significant, Bar-Natan said in a Thursday interview, because "truth in science is never based on the results of a single experiment. A significant requirement is repeatability." Their results were no more successful with the Hebrew translation of Tolstoy's "War and Peace." Such letter configurations can be found in any long text, they say. The trick is to find letters in close proximity that form significant words more often than by chance.



From: Maerl Olmstead
this is just interesting..dont label me!!!< lol>..here goes:

Bible codes, also known as Torah codes, are words, phrases and clusters of words and phrases that some people believe are meaningful and exist intentionally in coded form in the text of the Bible. These codes were made famous by the book The Bible Code, which claims that these codes can predict the future. These claims are strongly doubted by skeptics and by many religious groups.

The primary method by which purportedly meaningful messages have been extracted is the Equidistant Letter Sequence (ELS). To obtain an ELS from a text, choose a starting point (in principle, any letter) and a skip number, also freely and possibly negative. Then, beginning at the starting point, select letters from the text at equal spacing as given by the skip number. For example, the bold letters in this sentence form an ELS from the word SAFEST. (The skip is -4. Spaces and punctuation are ignored.)

Often more than one ELS related to some topic can be displayed simultaneously in an ELS letter array. This is produced by writing out the text in a regular grid, with exactly the same number of letters in each line, then cutting out a rectangle.


below is a website that shows all major predictions from 2006-2012 it also explains some other elements of the bible codes.


http://www.exodus2006.com/


P.S. aren't these things a little TOO coincidental ...or maybe just TOO SILLY?<grin>..man was i bored
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
07-13-2006 08:55
From: Michael Seraph
Actually there is no factual proof Jesus existed. There is a single, non-biblical contemporary source, Josephus, and it has been suggested that the reference to Jesus was edited into the document later. There is, though, no evidence that the existence of Jesus was made up. There is much indirect "evidence" that he existed. The descriptions of everyday life in the Gospels is supported by archeology and historical documents of the time.

Random thought. This bit reminds me of R. A. Heinlien's use of the term "Crucifiction".
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From: Bud
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
07-13-2006 09:15
From: Michael Seraph
Actually there is no factual proof Jesus existed. There is a single, non-biblical contemporary source, Josephus, and it has been suggested that the reference to Jesus was edited into the document later. ........

Jesus in History - Written Records:
Josephus, Jewish Zealot

Flavius Josephus (37-98 CE) had been a Jewish zealot fighting against the Romans until Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE. He changed sides and became the Roman Emperor's adviser on Jewish affairs. His history book 'Antiquities of the Jews' describes Palestine in the time of Jesus.
Jerusalem, where Josephus lived.

In his writings, Josephus mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.

Historians think one part that talks about Jesus had been added to. With these extra bits taken away they think Josephus wrote:

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."
Antiquities, Book 18, 63-64.

He also said that the High Priest Ananias had:

"Convened the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish religious court / governing body). He had brought before them the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, who was called James, and some other men, whom he accused of having broken the law, and handed them over to be stoned."
Antiquities, Book 20, 200.


Historians do not believe this second passage has been added to or changed.

Josephus was a Jew who was not a follower of Jesus. What did he say about Jesus?

He was a real historical person.
He was a teacher.
He was a worker of wonders (miracles).
He gathered a band of followers, who continued to follow him after his death.
He had a brother called James.
James was executed by the Jewish leaders in CE 62.
There were claims that Jesus was the Messiah (that is, the Christ).

Tacitus - Roman Historian
http://www.request.org.uk/main/history/jesus/Jesus04.htm
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-13-2006 09:16
From: Kendra Bancroft
Yeshua and Joshua are the same name.


I know:) I kind of like Yeshua more though.. would probably name a boy that over Joshua.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-13-2006 09:24
There are reports and documents of a healer and miracle worker who claimed to be descended from a god. Supposedly he brought back the dead, and healed the ill.


The year? 30 or so BCE (before current era) and the name? Apollynius.

Think we need to take historical references about jesus seriously? As soon as you recognize all others referenced, everywhere.
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 09:36
From: Kevn Klein
Jesus in History - Written Records:
Josephus, Jewish Zealot

Flavius Josephus (37-98 CE) had been a Jewish zealot fighting against the Romans until Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE. He changed sides and became the Roman Emperor's adviser on Jewish affairs. His history book 'Antiquities of the Jews' describes Palestine in the time of Jesus.
Jerusalem, where Josephus lived.


true so far.

From: Kevn Klein
In his writings, Josephus mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.


Josephus mentions 19 different Jesii. None of them of "Nazareth".

From: Kevn Klein
Historians think one part that talks about Jesus had been added to. With these extra bits taken away they think Josephus wrote:

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."
Antiquities, Book 18, 63-64.

He also said that the High Priest Ananias had:

"Convened the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish religious court / governing body). He had brought before them the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, who was called James, and some other men, whom he accused of having broken the law, and handed them over to be stoned."
Antiquities, Book 20, 200.


Historians do not believe this second passage has been added to or changed..


You would be referring then to Jesus ben Ananias. (One of Josephus' 19 different Jesii) Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely:

"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."
(Josephus, Wars 6:3)

Arrested and flogged by the Romans, he was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.

From: Kevn Klein
Josephus was a Jew who was not a follower of Jesus. What did he say about Jesus?

He was a real historical person.
He was a teacher.
He was a worker of wonders (miracles).
He gathered a band of followers, who continued to follow him after his death.
He had a brother called James.
James was executed by the Jewish leaders in CE 62.
There were claims that Jesus was the Messiah (that is, the Christ).

Tacitus - Roman Historian
http://www.request.org.uk/main/history/jesus/Jesus04.htm


The problem is you are combining what Josephus said about 19 seperate individuals named Jesus. Which as I've mentioned was an incredibly common name. Since the time of Joshua in Exodus it had come to mean hero or 'saviour". An incredibly common honorific name given to all manner of community 'saviours' at the time.
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
07-13-2006 09:38
LORD RAGLANS SCALE
  1. The hero's mother is a royal virgin
  2. His father is a king and
  3. often a near relative of the mother, but
  4. the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
  5. he is also reputed to be the son of a god
  6. at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
  7. He is spirited away, and
  8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country
  9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
  10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
  11. After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
  12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
  13. becomes king
  14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
  15. Prescribes laws but
  16. later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
  17. Is driven from from the throne and the city after which
  18. He meets with a mysterious death
  19. often at the top of a hill.
  20. his children, if any, do not succeed him.
  21. his body is not buried, but nevertheless
  22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

    How Some Heros Scored
  23. Oedipus scores 21
  24. Theseus scores 20
  25. Moses scores 20
  26. Dionysus scores 19
  27. Jesus scores 19
  28. Romulus scores 18
  29. Perseus scores 18
  30. Hercules scores 17
  31. Llew Llaw Gyffes scores 17
  32. Bellerophon scores 16
  33. Jason scores 15
  34. Mwindo scores 14
  35. Robin Hood scores 13
  36. Pelops scores 13
  37. Apollo scores 11
  38. Sigurd scores 11
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
07-13-2006 09:47
From: Chip Midnight
LORD RAGLANS SCALE
  1. The hero's mother is a royal virgin
  2. His father is a king and
  3. often a near relative of the mother, but
  4. the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
  5. he is also reputed to be the son of a god
  6. at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
  7. He is spirited away, and
  8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country
  9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
  10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
  11. After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
  12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
  13. becomes king
  14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
  15. Prescribes laws but
  16. later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
  17. Is driven from from the throne and the city after which
  18. He meets with a mysterious death
  19. often at the top of a hill.
  20. his children, if any, do not succeed him.
  21. his body is not buried, but nevertheless
  22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

    How Some Heros Scored
  23. Oedipus scores 21
  24. Theseus scores 20
  25. Moses scores 20
  26. Dionysus scores 19
  27. Jesus scores 19
  28. Romulus scores 18
  29. Perseus scores 18
  30. Hercules scores 17
  31. Llew Llaw Gyffes scores 17
  32. Bellerophon scores 16
  33. Jason scores 15
  34. Mwindo scores 14
  35. Robin Hood scores 13
  36. Pelops scores 13
  37. Apollo scores 11
  38. Sigurd scores 11



Perseus is sexy. He was damn good in Clash of the Titants.

Briana Dawson
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
07-13-2006 09:47
From: Chip Midnight
LORD RAGLANS SCALE
  1. The hero's mother is a royal virgin
  2. His father is a king and
  3. often a near relative of the mother, but
  4. the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
  5. he is also reputed to be the son of a god
  6. at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, to kill him, but
  7. He is spirited away, and
  8. Reared by foster-parents in a far country
  9. We are told nothing of his childhood, but
  10. On reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
  11. After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
  12. He marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
  13. becomes king
  14. For a time he reigns uneventfully and
  15. Prescribes laws but
  16. later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
  17. Is driven from from the throne and the city after which
  18. He meets with a mysterious death
  19. often at the top of a hill.
  20. his children, if any, do not succeed him.
  21. his body is not buried, but nevertheless
  22. he has one or more holy sepulchres.

    How Some Heros Scored
  23. Oedipus scores 21
  24. Theseus scores 20
  25. Moses scores 20
  26. Dionysus scores 19
  27. Jesus scores 19
  28. Romulus scores 18
  29. Perseus scores 18
  30. Hercules scores 17
  31. Llew Llaw Gyffes scores 17
  32. Bellerophon scores 16
  33. Jason scores 15
  34. Mwindo scores 14
  35. Robin Hood scores 13
  36. Pelops scores 13
  37. Apollo scores 11
  38. Sigurd scores 11


Mickey McLuhan scores 78

Wait.. how is that right?
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 09:54
From: Mickey McLuhan
Mickey McLuhan scores 78

Wait.. how is that right?



cos you're irish ;)
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Mickey McLuhan
She of the SwissArmy Tail
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 1,032
07-13-2006 10:01
From: Kendra Bancroft
cos you're irish ;)


That's RIGHT! I forgot. Thanks!
Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
07-13-2006 10:35
From: Kendra Bancroft
true so far.



Josephus mentions 19 different Jesii. None of them of "Nazareth".



You would be referring then to Jesus ben Ananias. (One of Josephus' 19 different Jesii) Beginning in 62AD, this Jesus had caused disquiet in Jerusalem with a non-stop doom-laden mantra of ‘Woe to the city’. He prophesied rather vaguely:

"A voice from the east, a voice from the west, a voice from the four winds, a voice against Jerusalem and the holy house, a voice against the bridegrooms and the brides, and a voice against the whole people."
(Josephus, Wars 6:3)

Arrested and flogged by the Romans, he was released as nothing more dangerous than a mad man. He died during the siege of Jerusalem from a rock hurled by a Roman catapult.



The problem is you are combining what Josephus said about 19 seperate individuals named Jesus. Which as I've mentioned was an incredibly common name. Since the time of Joshua in Exodus it had come to mean hero or 'saviour". An incredibly common honorific name given to all manner of community 'saviours' at the time.


Which was the Jesus who fits this...? He was a worker of wonders (miracles). He gathered a band of followers, who continued to follow him after his death.
He had a brother called James. ????
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 10:40
From: Kevn Klein
Which was the Jesus who fits this...? He was a worker of wonders (miracles). He gathered a band of followers, who continued to follow him after his death.
He had a brother called James. ????



you miss the point entirely.

There is no single historical "Jesus" that fits your notion of mythic Jesus.

The best one can do is patch together an amalgam of Jesii floating around that time period into one archetype.

Your "Jesus" was a type of leader back then --not a single individual.
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
07-13-2006 10:43
From: Kendra Bancroft
you miss the point entirely.

There is no single historical "Jesus" that fits your notion of mythic Jesus.

The best one can do is patch together an amalgam of Jesii floating around that time period into one archetype.

Your "Jesus" was a type of leader back then --not a single individual.

If that makes you feel better to believe that, great. I would do nothing to purposely crash your beleif system.
Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
07-13-2006 10:46
From: Kevn Klein
beleif .


No no no no no..

I before E except after C.

Briana Dawson
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Jonas Pierterson
Dark Harlequin
Join date: 27 Dec 2005
Posts: 3,660
07-13-2006 10:48
From: Kevn Klein
If that makes you feel better to believe that, great. I would do nothing to purposely crash your beleif system.


And if it makes you feel better to believe you are right, keep doing that!
_____________________
Good freebies here and here

I must protest. I am not a merry man! - Warf, ST: TNG, episode: Qpid

You killed my father. Prepare to die. - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

You killed My father. Your a-- is mine! - Hellboy
Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
07-13-2006 10:49
From: Jonas Pierterson
And if it makes you feel better to believe you are right, keep doing that!

You haven't proven him wrong
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From: Corvus Drake
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag.



Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army

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Witch Mountain
Registered User
Join date: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 8
07-13-2006 10:50
How they Raise and Stir up Hailstorms and Tempests, and Cause Lightning to Blast both Men and Beasts.
Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 10:50
From: Kevn Klein
If that makes you feel better to believe that, great. I would do nothing to purposely crash your beleif system.



Nonsense. You "God-Types" are constantly throwing your beliefs in everyone's faces,
operating as if your "Bible" is some sort of flawless non negotiable document of verity.

What you don't understand is that I don't have a belief system. I don't even need a belief system. I take nothing at face-value and am quite comfortable with the chaos of the unknowable.

I don't need a magical sky-pixie to explain anything, because I don't require an explanation.

I actually pity you as being someone who's mind has not evolved beyond childish superstition.
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Kendra Bancroft
Rhine Maiden
Join date: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 5,813
07-13-2006 10:51
From: Briana Dawson
No no no no no..

I before E except after C.

Briana Dawson



ya know, Briana --if you and I stay away from talking politics and concentrate on notions about religion I do believe we could get along.
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