When you see pictures of Jesus praying...

Here is the response I got from a Christian church I emailed.


How does that sit with Christians here?

Behold the Magic Motion Machine of the Nazarene!

From what I've read on the strain of ID being shoehorned into certain states, they're essentially saying "Well, anything we can't explain yet could be chalked up to some deity or higher power."

A higher power is great if you're trying to quit drinking. Its not so great when you use it as a catch-all for anything we can't explain scientifically yet. It sucks donkey balls when we're supposed to be teaching our children how to think, analyze and discover and instead we decide that science class is a great time to get more True Believers™ into the fold.

Are you sure that's not Billy Connolly, Leck? He did try and sue God once. Maybe thats why you're getting the two confused.

Heh I guess it could be so shoot me ....

I adore the words "godless" and "liberals" in the same sentence. I grew up in South Carolina--these sentences were tossed around with great joy and self-congratulation on a daily basis (though, usually, some very vile words peppered the rest of these sentences).

As a human being, I embrace every person's individual rights to embrace or to abstain from religious or spiritual practice. However, I get a bit defensive (as you obviously did) when the name-calling begins.

Who is Jesus praying to? Perhaps he is not praying to anyone(thing). Maybe he is thinking about things. Maybe he has his 'eye on the sparrow.'

My favorite bumper sticker:

"God is coming and, boy, is she pissed."

Ok, Leck. I will concede that Alanis Morissette is a God

"Upon blind faith they place their lives. What we need more of is science!"

LOL!! Great video!!

-Ghoti

Holy cow. I lost it when "Hawking" started rapping.

-Ghoti

The higher power is the explanation of ALL things scientific, not just those we can't explain yet. The concept of a higher power - even a sort of universal consciousness - is not incompatible with any and all science.

coco

Obviously praying for the power of the Demon Lord of Panda, to come down and smite the world with one claw swipe! Or maybe for free cheetos....mmmmm cheetos...

Actually, it's incredibly incompatible. The possible presance of a "higher power" is not observable fact. To state that an unexplainable magic sky pixie is the source of ALL things scientific is patently absurd going by the definition of the word scientific.

Edit: what Kendra said.

Science doesn't rule out me being the Alpha and Omega, but that doesn't mean the Cory Edo Theory Of Everything is a valid theory that should get taught alongside evolution.

Oh, well, Cory, you beated me in posting the same things i wanted to post...
I saw your post when i was already on the reply page...

Now all we need is to decide if Alanis Morissette is a biker...

Ayone who might come along to pull the stick out of his ass

I don't know, do you?

Back to the topic at hand...

Yea, that does pretty much sum it up. The only difference is that water cannot be all 3 states at the same time, where as the members of the Holy Trinity can be the same person, yet separate at the same time (...This is why its called the 'Mystery' of the Holy Trinity BTW)

The problem I think a lot of people have with Religion, and Christianity specifically, is that it does require faith to believe in something that noone can possibly hope to understand.

Hebrews 11:1 says "Now Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." We accept many things on faith because we cannot see it. For instance, I don't need to see air to have faith that when I take a breath it will be there.

Jesus, the Son, prayed to God, the Father. They are one and the same person, yet Jesus separated himself from God, the Father, in order to come to Earth and fullfill God's Divine plan (That he would die for our sins and bring all who believe everlasting life).

Now, poke fun if you want, but this is the basis of the Christian religion. Please understand, those of you who are non-christian, that if we christians seem overly zeaolus in our beliefs it is based on an overwhelming love for our fellow man and to have as many people hear, believe, and embrace salvation as possible. If you choose not to believe, then that is your choice, but we would not be fulfilling our christianly duties if we did not at least make an attempt for you to hear our view of salvation so that you can make an informed decision about your own beliefs and salvation.

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary."

Mary: "Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?"

John: "If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you."

Me: "What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shake-down?"

John: "Hank is a billionaire philanthropists. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do what ever wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass."

Me: "That doesn't make any sense. Why..."

Mary: "Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?"

Me: "Well maybe, if it's legit, but..."

John: "Then come kiss Hank's ass with us."

Me: "Do you kiss Hank's ass often?"

Mary: "Oh yes, all the time..."

Me: "And has he given you a million dollars?"

John: "Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town."

Me: "So why don't you just leave town now?"

Mary: "You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money and he kicks the shit out of you."

Me: "Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?"

John: "My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money."

Me: "Haven't you talked to her since then?"

John: "Of course not, Hank doesn't allow it."

Me: "So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?"

Mary: "Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street."

Me: "What's that got to do with Hank?"

John: "Hank has certain 'connections.'"

Me: "I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game."

John: "But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass he'll kick the shit of you."

Me: "Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him..."

Mary: "No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank."

Me: "Then how do you kiss his ass?"

John: "Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on."

Me: "Who's Karl?"

Mary: "A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times."

Me: "And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?"

John: "Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy; see for your self."

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on "From the desk of Karl" letterhead. There were eleven items listed:

From the desk of: KARL

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11. Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.
Use alcohol in moderation.
Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.
Eat right.
Hank dictated this list himself.
The moon is made of green cheese.
Everything Hank says is right.
Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.
Don't drink.
Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.
Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.
Me: "This would appear to be written on Karl's Letterhead."

Mary: "Hank didn't have any paper."

Me: "I have a hunch that if we checked we'd find this is Karl's handwriting."

John: "Of course, Hank dictated it."

Me: "I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?"

Mary: "Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people."

Me: "I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?"

Mary: "It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right."

Me: "How do you figure that?"

Mary: "Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!"

Me: "Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up."

John: "No way! Item 5 says 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation,' Item 4 says 'Eat right,' and item 8 says 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.' Everyone knows those things are right, so the rest must be true too."

Me: "But 9 says 'Don't Drink,' which doesn't quite go with item 2, and 6 says 'The moon is made of green cheese,' which is just plain wrong."

John: "There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure."

Me: "Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock..."

Mary: "But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from outer of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese."

Me: "I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese."

John: "Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!"

Me: "We do?"

Mary: "Of course we do, Item 5 says so."

Me: "You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic. That's no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.'"

John: "Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding to see someone come around to Hank's way of thinking!"

Me: "But... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?"

Mary blushes. John says: "Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong."

Me: "What if I don't have a bun?"

John: "No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong."

Me: "No relish? No Mustard?"

Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: "There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!"

Me: "So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?"

Mary sticks her fingers in her ears: "I am not listening to this. La la la la la la la la."

John: "That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that..."

Me: "It's good! I eat it all the time."

Mary faints. John catches her: "Well, if I'd known you where one of those, I wouldn't have wasted my time. When Hank kicks the shit out of you, I'll be there counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater."

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

Ketchup anyone?

Kendra, this white agnostic girl loves you. With relish.

*sigh* that's what I get for posting an honest, serious answer to an honest, serious thread, I guess....