Iraq Body Count at 25,000

Just because one group is doing something wrong does not excuse someone else doing something wrong too.

It's too bad that does happen to be the case most of the time. An interesting question to ponder is if just because they (the National Review, the US right wing, you?) promote a fascist viewpoint, is there anything wrong with that.

Bleh, I don't know much about the National Review. That was mostly just a troll, you got me! But I do think moveon.org is a steaming pile of shit.

Why?

Check out the archives at www.factcheck.org ... for starters.

Another right wing propaganda site.

Thanks so much for dispelling the myth of a right wing conspiracy by demonstrating that it's no myth at all.

ok Smiley, thanks for the clarification

Would this be the same website that Cheney tried to pimp during the VP debates?

There is no such thing as a conspiracy. Acxiom does not build models of behavior based on consumer information. This technology has never been used during a presidential election to target voters, and I'm sure it has never been used to target potential "terrorists." Carl Rove does not have an intricate agenda spanning decades to develop a right-wing monopoly on government, and has never used underhanded methods to achieve his goals. Our government leaders have never been opportunists or used tragedy to further their personal agendas. Your attempts to promote conspiracy theories are unpatriotic and an example of the left using the same fear/scare tactics that it accuses the right of. There is clear evidence of terrorism, but where is your evidence of conspiracy?

Take your conspiracy fear mongering elsewhere.

Yes, disgusting behaviour. Who could argue that? But if you are trying to compare the coalitions activities with those of the Saddam regime or with the militants actions I'm afraid you need to broaden your world view some more.

Excuse me, please point out where I made such a statement. Once again, I urge you to go and investigate the horrors meted out daily to Iraqi civilians at the hands of their malitia. Of course, you could do what the above poster has done and post the Abu Graib photos again to show what monsters all the coalition troops are.

Is anyone here truly naive enough to think that we can stop these people with anything less than brutal force? And before you paint me as some dyed in the wool right wing lunatic let me say that I find war and violnce reprehensible in the extreme. Yet there is no other way. All such theocracies and tyrants must be flushed form our world. And, sadly, the only way to do that is to wash them away with blood.

The post of yours I referenced suggested, as you did again, that because a group is acting in a brutal manner toward Iraqis, then the US is somehow obligated to behave in the same manner toward Iraqi as well. Dealing with the population in a brutal manner has not created peace in the area before, although Saddam did have a more well managed situation through terrorizing his people than we have now. Even US military doctrine states that a combatant, in the current case, the US military, is not suitable as a peacekeeping force.

Also, you don't seem to realize that many of the tyrants, theocracies and dictators in the world, just like Saddam, are supported - if not installed - by the USA.

Thank you, Ulrika for

a) Minimizing the tragedies in London. (they oughta just stop whining and count their lucky stars, right?)
b) Reminding us that it's the US doing all the killing in Iraq. And here all this time I thought Zarqawi and his ilk were blowing up mosques, sending suicide bombers to blow up groups of school children and people waiting in line to join the military or police, and assassinating elected officials
c) Thank you for reminding me why I am so disgusted with the Left's reprehensible passion for siding with murderers.

-Kiamat Dusk
...there's no such thing as unilateral peace...

Ah, yes, the Clinton administration. That peaceful time that saw:

1. The first attack on the WTC
2. Attacks on 2 US Embassies in Africa
3. The attack on the USS Cole
4. The attack on the Khobar Towers
5. The Oklahoma City bombing
6. The massacre at Ruby Ridge
7. The massacre at Waco.


Ah, peace.

-Kiamat Dusk

There's that patriotic American spirit! "do it at the expense of teh Midwest"... Because of course no one in the midwest has been touched by terror. None of them could have had friends or family at the WTC or the Pentagon or on those planes. None of them could possibly have friends or family in Iraq or Afganistan.

Typical of the Left, "Don't hurt me-hurt the other guy!"

-Kiamat Dusk

You're so good with numbers, Ulrika, let's see you dig up some pre-war numbers. How many Kurds are lying in mass graves? How many children were in Saddam's children's prisons? How many women were dragged off to rape rooms?

Oh, but you don't want to get into *those* numbers because you may accidentally justify the war and make Saddam into something less than a vicitm.

Funny how you save your vitriol for the countries building schools, giving millions of women equal rights, and countless of other positive things, and your respect for those target children.

-Kiamat Dusk
Peace Through Victory

Hiro,

Did you check to see just how much *is* being spent annually on those problems or did you just assume it wasn't as much?

-Kiamat Dusk

By your logic then it's also the fault of the British, the Australians, the Japanese, the Spanish, the Poles, and every other country who has or had troops in Iraq-yet you reserve your ire for the US. Damn hypocritical if you ask me, but that's the Left for ya.

-Kiamat Dusk

Back to reality...

Not wanting to side with murderers is not siding with murderers.

In war most of those killed are non-combatants. That is why in times past there were laws passed to try to prevent war, which Bush and his supporters ignore.

Erm, I'm well aware of who placed Saddam in power and why. Do not assume because I do not mention something that I am ignorant of it. The US military is certainly not a good peacekeeping force. They are an awesome fighting force however. I think if it were only a case of Peacekeeping there are other members of the coalition, or the UN, who have more experience at peacekeeping activities. However, we are still faced with the growing situation of militant terrorist activity. Many of the militants are swarming over the borders to attack the coalition troops and murder anyone who works with them. Do you think these militants really care about the plight of the Iraqi people?

There is still a war out there, and one that will not be easy to win. But I digress, my point still stands. I hope we show the same determination in fighting tyranny and religious zealots wherever we find them and regardless of who installed them in the first place. It would be even nicer if the next place this happened didn't also have oil deposits

I shouldn't have to compare.

...unless we're talking about abortion. That's an entirely acceptable way of devaluing human life.

-Kiamat Dusk

Ahhh, because in war we should all really act like gentlemen? Of course. Get real. Abu Graib was a disgrace, a shame on all involved. But at least those poor souls who were mistreated can hope for some form of justice. So many people are keen to slate the US for their activities yet totally overlook the almost weekly beheadings and shootings of innocent people carried out by mostly foreign fighters on iraqi soil.

You are arguing with me as if I think the mistreatment of anyone is acceptable. I don't. But I am also not naive enough to think ANY conflict is run according to the letter of the Geneva convention. War is a horrible, dirty, shame on us all. But it still happens, and I'd rather see a thousand people humiliated than one more slaughtered and allowed to choke on his own blood. if you can't understand my rationale there, then you need to watch these things.

Typical of rightwing sheeple to place the needs of a blastula over an adult woman.
Your "Culture of Life" (actually a culture of death) doesn't believe in human rights after birth.

Back to reality....

There were a lot of wars between WW2 and Bush, which the Left ignore. Yugoslavia anyone? Are you telling me Clinton was a Bush supporter? Oh, and Saddam's invasion of Kuwait-you're not honestly trying to say that Saddam was a Bush supporter. The list goes on, but so does the Left's hypocrisy.

-Kiamat Dusk