Protest Warrior HQ

If you agree with him so much, why don't you inlist in the army?

What are you trying to acomplish here? Stirring an argument? Converting people? I don't care what you believe. If you want to go watch some NASCAR, listen to some country music, and shoot some deer with a few friends, maybe you can talk to them about your opinions. They'll care. Unlike us.

Unless you don't have friends, because then, you might want to inlist in the army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Stop, you're walking a fine line.

1) It is spelled e-n-l-i-s-t.
2) I enlisted in the US Navy 1994.
3) I wanted to have intelligent dialogue with fact based arguments. Thus far it's been pretty successful with Kendra bringing up some very good points.
4) I don't hunt, I don't watch NASCAR (or any other sports), and my appreciation of country music is very limited. ie-I don't fit into your happy little "unwashed masses" stereotype.

-Kiamat Dusk
Taking Liberals' Lunch Money One Day at a Time

Misogynist is not among them. I was simply stating that your source was a professor (that he was a professor of Women's Studies was irrelevant but true) and not a journalist.

-Kiamat Dusk
Stayin up late, goin' it alone

The article you question is an incredibly well researched and documented piece of writing. Don't believe me? Click through the voluminous amount of linked journalistic articles that the author references.

In.. uh... 1988?

Traitor! Next you're going to suggest that Saddam wasn't responsible for the attack on the Towers. Or that he wasn't the evil bastard behind Jersey Girl.

I swear by my American flag lapel pin and 10 commandments bumper sticker that it's hippies like you who have ruined this God-lovin', Allah-hatin' country.

I see....so in your opinion, what is the statute of limitations on mass murder? Exactly how long before we just forget it ever happened? I suppose we should just stop harrassing the Neo Nazis about what their mentors did waaaaaaay back in WWII as well, huh? I mean let's just let bygones be bygones. It's just a few hundred thousand souls under the bridge.

-Kiamat Dusk
Should be sleeping right now

Wow...so much to think about...I don't know where to begin...
1) People identify Conservatives with Southerners because American patriotism runs deep in the South. Drive through the South and you'll see Old Glory flying in front of nearly every home. They were there before 9/11 and they'll be there long afterward-not like in the enlightened Left and Right coasts where the flag flew from 9/11-9/12 and has spent every other day before and since trampled beneath the foot of an "American" exercising his right to free speech. You act like calling me a Southerner is an insult, well I tell you this Connecticut man sees it as a compliment.

2) Isolationist=let me hide my head in the sand and hope for the best. I find it amazing that people like you are also the first to denounce Bush with claims that he knew 9/11 was coming and failed to act. But following your logic, if he did know then he SHOULDN'T have acted until after the fact. So...exactly how many American lives does it take to get your head out of the sand? How many American dead before it's ok to fight? I say hit them before they hit us. Bush wasn't the only one who thought that Saddam posed a credible threat. Both Clintons, Gore, and British intelligence were sure he had WMDs. Moreover, if he didn't have anything to hide, then why all the games with the weapons inspectors? Fact is, he was bluffing and it backfired on him. But if someone sticks something in your back and says it's a gun and they are going to kill you-are you liable if you kill them first only to find out it wasn't a gun at all? What if Bush and Clinton and Gore and Kerry and everyone else who thought he had WMDs and been right and Bush had FAILED to act? You guys would be wailing in the streets about his incompetence.

America can't be isolated when the enemy is at our gates.

3) You said that our airmen and our soldiers do not count in this-well I'm sure the Sailors and Marines will be happy to learn that you find them culpable. You Liberals get all misty eyed about the military over there fighting (when you're not spitting on them) and want to bring them home, but you never stop to ask what THEY want. If you did, you'd find the majority of them feel they are doing the right thing and want to stay. But, hey, the majority of the military are "Southern hicks" so what do they know, right?

4) Lastly, I am active duty military, sir. People like me are DEFENDING this country-not killing it.

-Kiamat Dusk
Knitting the blanket of freedom

Kiamat, in case you haven't figured it out. There are far too many die-hard true-believers aligned against your position for you to "win" or even participate in a discussion of any depth on this subject.

They have no intention of conceding any rational point you make.
They will dispute any proffer of evidence - instead twisting it into something only other true believers, drunkards, or psychotics will claim to recognize as rationailty.
They will gang rape your posts by selectively misquoting you.
Their intent, though not explicitly stated, is exactly what they accuse others of - silencing the opposition (defined as anyone who does not agree 100% with their banalities).

At their core, they believe in unattainable ideals yet do not understand that unattainable ideals are part and parcel of diessnsion, disappointment and dispair.

Trust me on this... they will never be swayed. They will not allow you to quietly seek out compatriots for doing so is seen as a threat to their insular fantasy world --- even in the unreality of this virtual non-existence.

Korg, you are so silly.

Are you flirting with me again? I told you before that nothing could ever develop between us.

With which you will proudly smother this great nation.

Even so, he never attacked US citizens and had no plan to.

As for the Kuwaitis -- the US forced him into the conflict. If I remember correctly he called for a meeting with a US diplomat one last time as his army stood on the border to talk options (since Kuwait kept selling it's oil to the US at prices under-cutting Iraq's, which was forcing the nation into poverty after fending off an invasion from Iran). The diplomat was recorded saying she the US didn't care.

And then there are the suspect memos that were discovered in Kuwait pointing to a possible conspiracy the US was involved in. The Bush Sr admin was basically putting pressure on Kuwait to constantly under-cut Iraq.

Fortunately Desert Storm didn't last long and not a whole tonne of people were killed.

I think all this info can be found on the wikipedia pages regarding Iraq's history and the persian gulf war.

Just a point to clear up.

Oh -- and Sadam's forces were accused of firing on Bush Sr.

*rolls up a newspaper and starts hitting everyone replying to the original post* DON'T FEED THE TROLL!

*hits herself a few times, too... she's wildly inaccurate*

And.... this isn't true for YOU?

He is the grand master of projection.

Again, I say-speak to the American pilots who were patrolling the no fly zone. As for all the Kuwaiti conspiracy info-I am inclined to blow it off as the only source you reference is a user maintained, non fact checked online encyclopedia. HOWEVER, that would be the easy way so instead I am going to see what I can find on the topic.

Either way, thank you for adding to the discussion. Your post was concise, free of rhetoric, and backed up with evidence.

Ardith, despite our philisophical differences, I want you to know that my capitalistic nature takes precedence and I fully intend to purchase that upgraded mecha when it is available.

-Kiamat Dusk
Republicans aren't perfect-we just look that way in close proximity to Democrats

If it helps your research, the US ambassador to Iraq that supposedly told Hussein that the US wouldn't intervene if he invaded Kuwait was April Gillespie. Also, another point I find so often infuriatingly overlooked is that four days after Iraq gassed Iran, Rumsfeld was there for a meeting shaking hands with Saddam and smiling.

First in regard to the old topic...

I have done my research and found nothing about the "suspect memos" Icon referred to or the part about the US Ambassador to Iraq assuring Hussein that the US would not attack or Rummsfeld shaking hands with Saddam after gassing Iran as Chip mentioned.

I did, however, find reports about the French assuring Hussein that the US would not attack.

Now for the new topic.


Should public schools be banned?
-Nothing in the Constitution says the Government is required to provide schools
-It would end the whole "praying in schools" and "Christmas in schools" debates.
-As for "who would pay for private schools?" the Republicans have been trying to push for school vouchers for that very purpose-something the Democrats oppose, but the majority of blacks (a large Democrat constituency) favor. But then I go back to my first point-there is nothing in the Constsitution that obligates the federal government to provide for public education.
-What about people who don't have children or who's children aren't in school-why should they have to pay taxes to support these schools?

If public schools stay open, what should and should not be allowed?
-If we can't have Christmas in schools because of the feelings of others, what about sex ed? What about political indoctrination? What about teachings about homosexuality?

Personally, I think that public schools should stay open, but that the public school system is in need of a serious overhaul. I believe that religion, *all* of it, should be allowed in schools, but not in the curriculum.

I like the fact that the US is a religious country and I don't want to see us go the way of the French where displaying one's religion is public is akin to having sex in public. Religion shouldn't be something we have to hide in the dark corners of our homes.

But, this isn't a thread about religion so much as it is about the public school system.

-Kiamat Dusk
Victim of a public school education

Here's the Rumsfeld-Saddam thing. Which I found in one minute in a google search. Ahhhh google, what would we do without you...

Y'know, part of me wants to adress a few thoughts about the previous topic, but this one seems so ripe for reply, so alas, here I go.



Public Education in the United States, say what you will about it, is vital to our country's economic, intellectual, and social health. If we were to eradicate the public school system, we would face a crises of knowledge in this country. Many are quick to complain that our country is losing its Global dominance in Industry, but this action would only turn this decline into what could more likely be symbolized by the Titanic.

Now, as to Public School Curriculum.... Religious studies should be taught in school. When I was in school, we learned about the world's largest religions and belief structures in a historical context in social studies. Public school is NOT a place to enforce or promote any religions, which is what Christmas activities end up doing in our schools.

Sex Ed in school? Of course. Venerial diseases are a public health threat, especially the AIDS pandemic. Sex Ed curriculums should discuss options, not try to enforce abstainance. Options should include abstainance, protection, etc.

And lastly, for discussing homosexuality in school, I think it is a must. That being said, the way it is approached is important. Really, it comes down to teaching diversity, tolerance, and acceptance. We are teaching our children to be successful in life and be the future leaders of our nation. These are important skills that are needed to ensure that hopefully they will be better off than we are.

One thing that I think is not taught nearly enough in public schools here, and something that I hadn't thought about until a discussion with someone from Argentina, is most things about other countries.

We don't learn hardly anything about anything outside of the US at all... at least I didn't. I couldn't tell you who the Prime Minister of Canada was... or how the government in Mexico worked, let alone anything about countries we don't share borders with...

In this global community I think knowledge about other countries is a must.

I agree with Brian that schools are to inform only. It's fine to learn about Christmas, etc, how they work and the beliefs behind them... but once you start having actual celebrations it crosses the line into being promoted by the school.

(edited), sticking your head in the sand like you want sure isn't the way to stop terrorists. Inaction will only result in more MAJOR attacks on American soil.

You may not like President Bush and you may support the terrorists attempt to bring him down but you cannot deny that the war has clearly been taken to the terrorists and is being fought on foreign soil.