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National Guardsman Brutally Attacked In Washington State |
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Metaforest Cheetah
Registered User
Join date: 18 Aug 2006
Posts: 82
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08-31-2006 11:48
Metaforest, The news also has another twist, the victim is black male.  Some how I missed that.... That puts a whole different "color" to the circumstances...And yet this still gets spun into a political piece about the war.... ?!? What a snow job.... =B-) |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 11:49
no Can anyone claim to be a USMC guy then? _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 11:50
Some how I missed that.... That puts a whole different "color" to the circumstances...And yet this still gets spun into a political piece about the war.... ?!? What a snow job.... =B-) Kinda weird this perticular story didn't mention that little fact, but the other little burb mentioned it fully also stating the guys in the van were white male.. etc. _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Finning Widget
No Ravens in my Mailbox
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 591
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08-31-2006 11:50
Can anyone claim to be a USMC guy then? They /could/ but if they're not /actually/ - that's a federal felony. |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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08-31-2006 11:51
Can anyone claim to be a USMC guy then? Anybody on the internet can, certainly. I learnt that in 'Nam. |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 11:52
They /could/ but if they're not /actually/ - that's a federal felony. So can a USMC guy get away with saying this: when a terrorist decides to cut your head off, I will just let them If his CO found out what would happen to him ? _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 11:54
So can a USMC guy get away with saying this: If his CO found out what would happen to him ? its a grey area, are we talking on US soil or not first? now I am no expert on this, I am trying to remember the particulars from my time in the Green Machine. _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag.  Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 11:54
its a grey area, are we talking on US soil or not first? On US soil, said towards a citizen. _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 11:56
On US soil, said towards a citizen. I was referring to the beheading now saying it isn't a problem I don't think actually following it would be a problem _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Finning Widget
No Ravens in my Mailbox
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 591
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08-31-2006 11:56
Umm, Yes, I do know what I signed, but you obviously have a different view on it. ... a 'different view'. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." I'm kinda familiar with the UCMJ - I read it, throughly, while I was 18 and considering joining the National Guard. Violating someone's civil rights is punishable under the UCMJ. Being ordered to do so is an illegal order, and may be disobeyed. Violating the Constitution is NOT defending it. Telling people LIES about what is, and is not, a 'true american' - so not defending the Constitution. In order to defend the Constitution, you actually have to know it. And then you have to live by it. And you have to prevent people's civil rights from being violated, EVEN if the person violating those civil rights is your Commander in Chief - EVEN if he orders YOU to do it or sets policy for you to do it or makes a political appointee who sets policy for you to do it. Looking the other way while American Citizens' rights are being violated? NOT defending the Constitution. Your oath to defend the Constitution comes FIRST. Not 'blindly obeying the orders of the commanding officer'. Not 'blindly backing the commander in chief'. THE. CONSTITUTION. MAYBE, YOU SHOULD READ IT. |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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08-31-2006 12:06
Disgusting. He's in the military and doing his job. You have a problem with the war, contact your elected officials. Taking it out on service members is wrong.
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 12:08
Disgusting. He's in the military and doing his job. You have a problem with the war, contact your elected officials. Taking it out on service members is wrong. But apparently he doesn't believe in dissent, and he wants anyone who does not follow his way (Bush way) to leave the country and go join Fidel Castro or something. xD Anyways that's one marine who has no idea what he signed up for. _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-31-2006 12:08
I do believe you're coloring the story with your own bias.
I find the blantent bias of the report offensive, because it was DESIGNED to piss people off rather than simply report on the facts of a disturbing attack of a service man. I do not see any inflamatory words or phrases here, but if you think otherwise, please quote it. The report writer has expanded the article on speculation and innuendo. I'd say a police report is a hell of a lot more than "speculation and innuendo." Point 1: The writer invites us to blame Anti-war protesters for this vicious attack. From the story: the driver asked if he was in the military and if he had been in any action. ... “And during the assault the suspects called him a baby killer. At that point they got into the car and drove off and left him on the side of the road,” Detective Ed Troyer with the Pierce County Sheriff’s Department told KIRO 7 Eyewitness News. Point 2: The only facts presented are what I would expect from reading about other road side beatings. It appears to be an act of senseless violence. Only if you mean this happens in all roadside beatings: The soldier was walking to a convenience store when a sport utility vehicle pulled up alongside him and the driver asked if he was in the military and if he had been in any action. Point 3: There is no corroborating evidence to support the writers view that this attack was politically motivated, or was perpetrated by Anti-War protestors. Again, I refer to the detective's statements that: “This is something new for us, we have not had military people assaulted because they were in the military or somebody's opposition to a war or whatever,” Troyer said. Point 4: That it happens to be a serviceman somehow makes it special, and political.... Once more, “This is something new for us, we have not had military people assaulted because they were in the military or somebody's opposition to a war or whatever,” Troyer said. Point 5: One attack does not show a trend, which is what the writer implies.... Writer said no such thing, in fact, the writer quoted someone as saying that this is something new and different. Frankly, the only bias I see here is your own. I work in the media and I take allegations of media bias seriously. I read and reread the story critically and I see nothing here that is inflamatory or that isn't backed up by official reports. Maybe it's just uncomfortable for you to admit that those you agree with politically could do such a thing? _____________________
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Broadly offensive. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 12:10
But apparently he doesn't believe in dissent, and he wants anyone who does not follow his way (Bush way) to leave the country and go join Fidel Castro or something. xD Anyways that's one marine who has no idea what he signed up for. I think Juro was referring to the article _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 12:12
I think Juro was referring to the article Oh ok, I thought we've skipped the shock and awe phase twice already... _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 12:15
Oh ok, I thought we've skipped the shock and awe phase twice already... I say you and I sit back and watch this debate between Lorelei and Metaforest Popcorn? _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Finning Widget
No Ravens in my Mailbox
Join date: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 591
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08-31-2006 12:17
So can a USMC guy get away with saying this: If his CO found out what would happen to him ? If he were on active duty, was aware that I (or any other US citizen) was about to be beheaded - and failed to take action to prevent the same, if he was able to take action - that would be dereliction of duty. And his representation that he would derelict his duty? Chilling my freedom of speech and right to dissent - which makes him not only contributory to the imagined dereliction of duty but creates a real, /prima facie/ dereliction of duty by stating that he will violate his Oath of Enlistment because he doesn't like me. Like shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre, but instead shouting 'Silence or I'll let the boogeymen get you!' to the people he's meant to protect. But, that's just my opinion, I'm not a lawyer, and that's not legal advice. Hey, Jason - did you even read the earlier part of this thread, where I was telling Lost Newcomb off for being an idiot? No? Maybe you should. |
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Alex Fitzsimmons
Resu Deretsiger
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,605
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08-31-2006 12:18
... a 'different view'. "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." I'm kinda familiar with the UCMJ - I read it, throughly, while I was 18 and considering joining the National Guard. Violating someone's civil rights is punishable under the UCMJ. Being ordered to do so is an illegal order, and may be disobeyed. Violating the Constitution is NOT defending it. Telling people LIES about what is, and is not, a 'true american' - so not defending the Constitution. In order to defend the Constitution, you actually have to know it. And then you have to live by it. And you have to prevent people's civil rights from being violated, EVEN if the person violating those civil rights is your Commander in Chief - EVEN if he orders YOU to do it or sets policy for you to do it or makes a political appointee who sets policy for you to do it. Looking the other way while American Citizens' rights are being violated? NOT defending the Constitution. Your oath to defend the Constitution comes FIRST. Not 'blindly obeying the orders of the commanding officer'. Not 'blindly backing the commander in chief'. THE. CONSTITUTION. MAYBE, YOU SHOULD READ IT. Finning, hon, in principle, I'd like to agree with you, but in actual fact, the Constitution is basically a defunct document at this point, worth less than the paper on which it is printed. What you're talking about is very much the way it should be, but in reality, serving in the armed forces is no longer even remotely compatible with defending the Constitution, and I do not believe it ever will be again. That said, individual military members do not necessarily in any way realize the true nature of those they serve -- they're as much victims of the lies and deceptions that surround us as anyone else. They certainly don't deserve, as you said yourself, to be treated as symbols of all that is wrong. Rather, pity them, for they know not what they do. And pity us all. _____________________
"Whatever the astronomers finally decide, I think Xena should be considered the enemy planet." - io Kukalcan
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 12:20
If he were on active duty, was aware that I (or any other US citizen) was about to be beheaded - and failed to take action to prevent the same, if he was able to take action - that would be dereliction of duty. And his representation that he would derelict his duty? Chilling my freedom of speech and right to dissent - which makes him not only contributory to the imagined dereliction of duty but creates a real, /prima facie/ dereliction of duty by stating that he will violate his Oath of Enlistment because he doesn't like me. Like shouting 'Fire' in a crowded theatre, but instead shouting 'Silence or I'll let the boogeymen get you!' to the people he's meant to protect. But, that's just my opinion, I'm not a lawyer, and that's not legal advice. Hey, Jason - did you even read the earlier part of this thread, where I was telling Lost Newcomb off for being an idiot? No? Maybe you should. Wow I think he ran away when I asked him for his CO, i'll just PM him and tell him wtf happend when he just jumped into a thread and acted all Gorean warrior type. That he could have just joined the fun instead he let himself be a victim  poor kid.EDIT: you know what's strange, if you read his posts way back he sounded like a cool kid, almost a nerd type, and then now (after his war thing), he's like a Gorean Master.. I blame Bush! _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-31-2006 12:23
I say you and I sit back and watch this debate between Lorelei and Metaforest Popcorn? Hey, I'm hungry. Share that. _____________________
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Broadly offensive. |
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Lost Newcomb
Registered User
Join date: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 666
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08-31-2006 12:24
I say you and I sit back and watch this debate between Lorelei and Metaforest Popcorn? Yeah, now that I found out I can't enter the "Mark Warner" sim (dude who'd be president if Donkey's win and hillary doesnt barf). Might as well read the forum... so much for: Imagine a world where politicians tell the truth, focus on the future, and work together with their fellow citizens to solve problems. http://www.forwardtogetherpac.com/contents/show/272 _____________________
I'm the uncontested Ubar of All of Gor, and Knight of SecondLife.
Proper way to greet me : Sir Lost, Ubar Lost, or if your so inclined, Master Newcomb. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 12:26
Hey, I'm hungry. Share that. don't make me send you to detention!  _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-31-2006 12:42
You my friend is everything that is wrong with America.. IMO. Says a person who thinks paid vacation is a basic human right. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-31-2006 12:48
Says a person who thinks paid vacation is a basic human right. DING! Round two! _____________________
If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party!
I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-31-2006 12:54
DING! Round two! naw. Think of me as the guy who randomly throws a brick in the ring from the audience. I'm not actually part of this fight.  _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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