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Kanker Greenacre
Registered User
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 178
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12-11-2005 19:48
Gee, sailing in Second Life is so much more fun these days.
_____________________
Living La Vida Segunda
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Oliphant Ming
Registered User
Join date: 1 May 2005
Posts: 13
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12-12-2005 00:36
Gee, sailing in Second Life is so much more fun these days. Aint it tho... |
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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12-12-2005 04:51
Non-ROW races in Tompson will be re-starting next week, hopefully, now I have conquered the 'flu' and got a few other issues sorted out.
No big prizes at present - no drama - just racing (oh, and practice, and friendly informal guidance for beginners) on a fairly long but simple course. Watch this space and inworld 'Events' for details. _____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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MarkTwain White
4th Incarnation
![]() Join date: 6 Nov 2004
Posts: 293
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12-12-2005 05:15
Non-ROW races in Tompson will be re-starting next week Great! I'll be there. And we look forward to seeing you back in Hollywood as well! _____________________
"Years from now you will be more disappointed
by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain MarkTwain White Living in Union Passage on the shores of the BLAKE SEA http://slsailing.COM |
MarkTwain White
4th Incarnation
![]() Join date: 6 Nov 2004
Posts: 293
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12-12-2005 05:18
Non-ROW races in Tompson will be re-starting next week. Great! I'll be there. Glad you are feeling better. Look forward to seeing you back in Hollywood as well. _____________________
"Years from now you will be more disappointed
by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain MarkTwain White Living in Union Passage on the shores of the BLAKE SEA http://slsailing.COM |
MarkTwain White
4th Incarnation
![]() Join date: 6 Nov 2004
Posts: 293
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12-12-2005 05:33
Gee, sailing in Second Life is so much more fun these days. If the conduct of full ROW races produces the kind of public humiliation from skippers that appeared in Pixeleen's post above you can bet we will be revisiting the full ROW issue down the line. I am here to have fun. Not support abusive behavior. At bear minimum Pixel should have gotten permission from Helen before publically posting her protest here. _____________________
"Years from now you will be more disappointed
by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain MarkTwain White Living in Union Passage on the shores of the BLAKE SEA http://slsailing.COM |
Nber Medici
Registered User
![]() Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 108
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12-12-2005 06:19
Non-ROW races in Tompson will be re-starting next week, hopefully, now I have conquered the 'flu' and got a few other issues sorted out. No big prizes at present - no drama - just racing (oh, and practice, and friendly informal guidance for beginners) on a fairly long but simple course. Watch this space and inworld 'Events' for details. Doc, glad you are feeling better! I look forward to trying to participate in these races - I like the idea of no drama - and friendly is good ![]() |
Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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Vagabonds Yacht Club - VYC
12-12-2005 06:32
Yesterday, Faykin Odets, Samantha Canetti , and I started a travelling yacht club (the Vagabonds Yacht Club) to promote sailing under the right of way rules. We hope this compliments the no-rules races and helps us all learn how to be better SL and RL sailors. I sent invitations to join to everyone I could think of, but I'm sure I accidentally missed some people. Please join us.
I'm tentatively planning a VYC-sponsored set of races this coming friday at 5 pm SL time at Doc's SL-Rentals place in Thompson, and I'll post again once this is confirmed. The plan is to run as many races as we can in 45 minutes, and use these results and the results from yesterdays full ROW races in Hollywood races to start ranking racers. For rankings, VYC will sponsor its own races, and include results from anyone else's races as long as they are run under the full right of way rules. We are planning a series of awards for most-improved sailors as well as the top sailors because we want it to be fun and educational for all levels of sailors. I hope it is clear that the people most likely to get the most-improved awards are those that have the most room for improvement. Sailing with rules does not exclude beginners, you just need a desire to learn. The scoring system we are considering will allow for throwing out your worst race in a given series, so if you get badly lagged, make a silly mistake, or your network connection drops, you can still do reasonably well. I have seen this sort of scoring for big fleet regattas and it helps keep things more interesting for everyone. The bigger plan is to take the show on the road and race in both the established venues and some new spots to test the concept under a variety of conditions, so please join us as we tramp our way across SL ![]() the VYC charter: -------------- Have much more fun by racing sailboats wherever we can in SL. Maintain rankings of SL sailors based on race performance, and present awards for top sailors and most improved sailors. Promote the sport of sailing in SL through teaching and racing. We race under the international sailing federation rules. See http://www.sailingcourse.com/ for an intro to the rules and tactics. -------------- |
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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12-12-2005 06:56
Please note:
Pix is going to be running RULES races from Tompson for those of you who prefer to race under RL rules. This will be her own venture. We discussed this last week and it seemed like a very good idea to me - personally I have my own views on applying RL rules to SL sailing, but if people want to race that way I'm happy to allow Pix to organise races on the Tompson/Portage course and use the local facilities. My own races will be pretty much rule free - with the proviso that I expect reasonable courtesy amongst contestants. We'll be timing our events carefully so people who want to sail either style can do so on the appropriate days, likewise with practice/tuition events. At this point we don't envisage 'mixed' events, it's going to be either/or. _____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Nber Medici
Registered User
![]() Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 108
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12-12-2005 08:56
My own races will be pretty much rule free - with the proviso that I expect reasonable courtesy amongst contestants...... ![]() ![]() |
Helen Dayton
Registered User
![]() Join date: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 93
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12-12-2005 10:02
protest of Helen by Pixeleen.------ Before I do, I'm sure most members know that I am not a RL sailor and have had absolutely no experience of RL sailing apart from a couple of lessons which only ended in me being absolutely terrified. However, having tried sailing in SL, I found it to be very relaxing and enjoyable, not least I expect because the fear of drowning was removed. Unfortunately, this means that all the sailing 'jargon' - windward, leeward etc are all like a foreign language to me - though contrary to Pixeleen's belief, I do know my Port from my Starboard! I have tried to understand the ROW rules, but have never managed to get my head around them, or the 'rules' for making and accepting Protests. As I approached Pixeleen, she was already tacking in the usual direction for that part of the course and I steered to correct my course to go behind her. As I did so, she suddenly changed course towards me. Why? As you will see from the picture she sent me, I was nearest to the land which shows I was trying to go behind. (Mine is the maroon Tako). It appeared to me at the time that Pixeleen deliberately turned towards me to make me collide with her, which is why I replied "oh p yourself" - meaning, no..... I am Protesting you! However, I'm not very good at using the right lingo, and also find it difficult to type much while sailing..... which is also why I find it hard to believe that Pixeleen said so much (which I didn't see) before the collision happened. I play Second Life for fun and if something becomes so serious that I don't have fun anymore, then I stop doing it. I did stop doing the ROW races a while back, but used to enjoy the no-ROW ones instead; however they were discontinued and I hadn't sailed since. However, finding myself at a loose end last night I made the mistake of trying a ROW race again and now seriously wish I hadn't. ![]() _____________________
Helen Dayton
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Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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12-12-2005 10:15
Yes. Sort of sums up me and ROW too Helen. So, see you Saturday then?
![]() PS - practice! Things have changed a bit - beware the new island. And the wildlife... _____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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how to avoid contact when you are on port tack
12-12-2005 15:18
As I approached Pixeleen, she was already tacking in the usual direction for that part of the course and I steered to correct my course to go behind her. As I did so, she suddenly changed course towards me. Why? As you will see from the picture she sent me, I was nearest to the land which shows I was trying to go behind. (Mine is the maroon Tako). The big lesson here is: boats heading downwind should steer away from the boats going upwind, and assume those going upwind are trying to take the shortest path to the mark. When you are going downwind on port, you have pretty much no rights, and had best give everyone a very wide berth. Anticipate that boats going upwind will want to sail close to the wind... they have the right of way, and they get to take the line that suits them. It appeared to me at the time that Pixeleen deliberately turned towards me to make me collide with her I'm not very good at using the right lingo, and also find it difficult to type much while sailing..... which is also why I find it hard to believe that Pixeleen said so much (which I didn't see) before the collision happened. I was using some gestures to programmed onto the function keys to hail... this has been discussed in detail in this thread. However, finding myself at a loose end last night I made the mistake of trying a ROW race again and now seriously wish I hadn't. ![]() |
Blue Grasshopper
Registered User
Join date: 10 Mar 2005
Posts: 2
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12-12-2005 18:58
...Learning is about making mistakes, seeing other's mistakes, and doing better next time. hmmmmm.....I am an educator ... by both training and vocation. Public display of an individual's mistakes is NOT a part of effective teaching. Never HAS worked.... Never WILL work. By the way.... the reason I was moved to post this.... is that I thought that the way that TEACHING is presented in this thread is antithetical to ALL that I know. Sorry Pixeleen....I do not know you, but this is my thought. |
Nber Medici
Registered User
![]() Join date: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 108
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12-12-2005 19:51
Gee, sailing in Second Life is so much more fun these days. My life is so much more fun since the full ROW has entered my life. BTW, did you detect the sarcasm in my message? ![]() |
Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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12-12-2005 21:22
hmmmmm.....I am an educator ... by both training and vocation. Public display of an individual's mistakes is NOT a part of effective teaching. Never HAS worked.... Never WILL work.. okay, fine... but I don't know how to have a private sailboat race. By definition, there are a number of people involved in a race, we race in public with spectators, and then we go completely wrong and publish race results. It gets really, really bizzare, and we don't even have umpires or referees... we have to collectively referee ourselves so we talk about what happened (the shock! the horror!) Having made the decision to perform in a public arena, should we further compound our fundamental mistake by discussing what is OK and not OK in public? I'm afriad we have to. In the RL sailing community I grew up in, you paid attention to the protests, you said you were sorry when you made a mistake, and you had a drink with the people you raced against at the end of the day, and tried to get better. Do not lie to yourself and say this does not happen in races without right of way rules... even there, public group discussion leads to establishing what is acceptible behavior. The right-of-way races just build on a large body of knowedge about what makes for an interesting contest, and there is an explicit, formal process for maintaining some decorum on the race course. I understand that some people are un-interested in things like racces, and those people should stay far, far away from anything that measures relative performance. I'm sailing in SL to become better at racing tactics and strategy. I don't know a more effective method of improving than trying things, making mistakes, reading about what others tried and analyzing what did and did not work, and then getting smarter from the experience. That is my idea of fun. Maybe I'm just strange. |
Helen Dayton
Registered User
![]() Join date: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 93
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12-13-2005 00:03
The big lesson here is: boats heading downwind should steer away from the boats going upwind, and assume those going upwind are trying to take the shortest path to the mark. When you are going downwind on port, you have pretty much no rights, and had best give everyone a very wide berth. Anticipate that boats going upwind will want to sail close to the wind... they have the right of way, and they get to take the line that suits them. What was going through my head: I was acutely aware that there were two boats behind me and that I needed to get upwind by the shortest path possible so I was trying to stay close to shore and leave loads of water for Helen to turn away from me. I had right of way, so I sailed a proper course upwind as is my right. I must confess that I take some pleasure in finishing ahead of MarkTwain, so the last thing I would do is intentionally get into a collision in a ROW race if it might put me behind Mark... crashing with Helen does not rate high for me, but finishing well in races does. _____________________
Helen Dayton
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Helen Dayton
Registered User
![]() Join date: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 93
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12-13-2005 00:32
In the RL sailing community I grew up in I'm sailing in SL to become better at racing tactics and strategy _____________________
Helen Dayton
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Eloise Pasteur
Curious Individual
Join date: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 1,952
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12-13-2005 02:04
I think all of Pix, Helen and Blue have some valid points in here.
A discussion of points, tactics and the like can be gemane and a good way for others to learn from it. However, it needs to be done carefully so that the person at fault doesn't feel demeaned and belittled which is a tactic used (successfully) by armed services training programmes and NO ONE else. I'd suggest we talk about how to do it - maybe 1) you seek the permission of the other people involved in the protest and 2) you do it anonymously. I didn't know who was involved until reading this post. Transcripts and write-ups need to be available for the protest committee, especially if they weren't there, but not publicly posted without anonymisation. Pix's advice is sound - if you're sailing downwind on Port, you're basically screwed you need to give way. The pictures etc. don't show me what's going on enough to be sure, but there are places (for example in Portage) where short tacks are required, there are also times when they're used tactically for any of a number of reasons, up to and including forcing the other skipper to foul you and have to do a penalty turn. You should also be allowed to sail for fun, that's fine and dandy and just right. I enjoy sailing competitively, but I also enjoy sailing purely for pleasure. I take a different type of enjoyment out of the ROW and no-ROW races too. One of the things that being asked about having ROW protests made public could be that those (like me) who are fairly thick skinned might say yes, whereas if you're sailing for fun and get into a ROW race and pinged you don't have to have it raised again in the forum. Got to go and do some work! But just my tuppence worth. |
MarkTwain White
4th Incarnation
![]() Join date: 6 Nov 2004
Posts: 293
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A Open Request to Faykin Odets
12-13-2005 03:44
Hi Faykin,
I need to hear from you ASAP regarding your plan to become rules committee chair. Nber and I have made a preliminary decision regarding full ROW in Hollywood which we will implement or not depending on your response and williness to administer this role in a way that promotes fair and sportsmanlike sailing. I am glad you agree that the hearing on Sunday's incident should be reopened. If reopened, however, I cannot be a judge. It is clear to me that PIxeleen is using the rules as a tool, rather than the intention of the rules which in my view is to provide guidelines for safe and fair conduct of sailboat racing. Because of my bias in this regard I cannot be an impartial judge and thus must recuse myself from this protest hearing. If such hearing were to be reopened I would serve as a witness in favor of Helen based on the exchange between Pixel and Helen and based on my experience that Pixel has been observed to, and has indeed bragged about, creating collisions in the past to serve her purpose. Such actions are unsportsmanlike in my view, clearly a violation of the rules, and incidently poor pedagogical style as has already been mentioned. Before getting to the particulars of the incident which I now believe, based on testimony given, will exhonorate Helen and find Pixeleen in vilolation of rules 14 and 16.1 I want to say the following. Helen, as Commodore of Starboards Yacht Club I apologize to you for the way you have been treated by one of our members on Sunday and on the forum. It is not the intention of SYC to support such conduct. Also, I want to chastise Pixeleen for publicly posting the protest hearing before the committee could hear from Helen. Both you (Faykin) and I agreed at the time of the hearing that it appeared to us that Helen had violated rule 10. However a ruling could not be finalized before we heard from Helen. Unfortunately Helen was not there. So Pixeleen, one of the parties in the dispute, posted the entire case publicly. I don't know if the rules deal with this or not but common sense and decency would dictate that a party in dispute should not make public a hearing of this nature. That would be the job of the committee who didn't have a personal axe to grind. If the purpose of this public display was to teach, as Pixeleen argues, she could have waited until Helen had been heard from and a final outcome reached. THEN she could have posted her "lesson" as a boat A vs boat B tutorial. The way she handled this indicates to me her personal animosity in the situation as evidenced by her obvious irritation at Helen's humorous "oh, go p yourself" quip. In my view Pixeleen's many arguments are couched in the mantle of improving the sailboat racing experience but in reality are making it worse because of her abrasive style (she was, in my view, rude to a number of skippers on Sunday that disagreed with her decision to protest a last place boat). Ok, Faykin, if you decide to reopen the hearing I submit that Pixeleen may be in violation of rules 14 and 16.1. Rule 14 says that "A boat shall avoid contact with another boat if reasonably possible. However a right-of-way boat or one entitled to room need not act to avoid contact UNTIL IT IS CLEAR that the other boat is not keeping clear or giving room." My reading of the testimony suggests that Helen DID try to avoid contact and that Pixelleen hit her anyway. Pixeleen did NOT argue that she could not avoid Helen, rather she argued that she was afraid the boat behind her would catch her. Rule 16.1 says "when a right-of-way boat changes course, she shall give the other boat room to keep clear." I would argue based on the tetimony given and the photo supplied that Pixeleen did indeed change course and did not give the other boat room to keep clear. By the way, although Rule 16.2 was not in play since this was not a starting situation, I have regularly observed PIxeleen violate this rule and will have it in my back pocket the next time I observe her changing course as the start to force a give-way boat already on a course to remain clear to have to adjust course to say clear. Faykin, if you assume the role of rules committee chair, which I encourage you to do, I will expect you to administer the rules as they were intended, as a tool to promote fair sportsmanlike sailing. And I would expect you to oppose using the rules as a tool for an agenda. _____________________
"Years from now you will be more disappointed
by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain MarkTwain White Living in Union Passage on the shores of the BLAKE SEA http://slsailing.COM |
Doc Nielsen
Fallen...
Join date: 13 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,059
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12-13-2005 03:55
RL sailing rules in SL! Bah!
Above is an excellent demonstration of their negative effects. Agreed, they can make for a more complex race, but some don't care for that. Nor for the drama thus created. Screw up in a non-ROW race and there are generally apologies all round and no overt bad feeling. Because there is no formal attachment of blame and no big deal is made of it. And anyone with half a brain quickly learns what is, and isn't, possible because in SL - which is where we are racing - things work rather differently than RL - or hadn't you noticed? Boats don't get damaged, people don't get damaged, getting an object (land or another boat) upwind doesn't loose you your wind. However, contact generally results in either a total loss of way, or, even worse, two or more boats becoming locked together (resulting in a significant loss of time for all concerned) which is generally to the disadvantage of all concerned. Thus, careless sailing is automatically discouraged, and malicious action carries considerable risks as well as it's own punishment. It also makes it in both parties interests to avoid contact - something ROW doesn't. Indeed, it's quite possible to behave maliciously (with the RULES on your side of course) and create chaos, pushing a race leader into third or forth place. And that is not acceptable in my opinion. RL sailing rules make sense in RL. Not in SL. Does SL sailing require rules? At present I don't think so. I've raced in ROW many times, and sailed without any consideration of ROW, just used common sense and a modicum of courtesy. I think I've been protested three times. Which in my view goes to show that the rules are pretty much redundant. However, there is, and should be, room for both schools of thought. Which is why Pix is running ROW in Tompson, and I'm not. I'll shut up now... _____________________
All very well for people to have a sig that exhorts you to 'be the change' - I wonder if it's ever occurred to them that they might be something that needs changing...?
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Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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12-13-2005 04:33
One of the things that being asked about having ROW protests made public could be that those (like me) who are fairly thick skinned might say yes, whereas if you're sailing for fun and get into a ROW race and pinged you don't have to have it raised again in the forum. I've made some other pretty bad mistakes, too. Ask Chase Speculaas about the time in a practice session when I was a complete jerk, because I was so upset (by a non-sailing issue) that I took him into the wall of a sim when I felt he fouled me. I was sailing in an overly emotional state but I appologized for that one later in public (and am doing so again now: I'm sorry Chase. I should have explained what was going on at the time.) Helen, I really wish you had not left so abruptly after the 3rd race sunday. You could have made your case to the protest committee and we would have had an even better trial of the RL-style race management and protest process. Anyway, those who are interested in right of way racing can try it all again friday when we run as many races as we can at 5 PM SL time at the SL-Rentals course in Thompson. I'll write up an event notice for Doc to post later today. I imagine we all stand a good chance of learning something if we approach it with an open mind and thick skins. Pixeleen - I experiment and make mistakes so you don't have to ![]() |
Pixeleen Mistral
the strange
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 253
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12-13-2005 05:16
Interesting. A member of the protest committee is essentially protesting the committee's own decision. The protest committee did inform me of its decision on sunday after I presented my case and didn't say this was a tentative decision, but whatever. I have already presented all the evidence I have, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this one plays out. I do hope it can play out before next weekend.
The lesson I take from this is to put a time limit on when new protests can be entertained for an event or some people might drag it out forever. Also, racers who do not make themselves available within some reasonable time to the protest committee probably lose their right to present a case or evidence. Again, the need for this is to avoid having things drag out longer than the race committiee has patience for. Looks like the race committeee in Hollywood has a lot of patience. I'll make sure language covering these issues in the VYC race instructions, and we'll structure things for VYC to come to closure quickly, so we can move on to the next set of races without any legal backlog. We are all learning a lot this morning. Hi Faykin, I am glad you agree that the hearing on Sunday's incident should be reopened. If reopened, however, I cannot be a judge. It is clear to me that PIxeleen is using the rules as a tool, rather than the intention of the rules which in my view is to provide guidelines for safe and fair conduct of sailboat racing. Because of my bias in this regard I cannot be an impartial judge and thus must recuse myself from this protest hearing. |
MarkTwain White
4th Incarnation
![]() Join date: 6 Nov 2004
Posts: 293
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12-13-2005 05:43
RL sailing rules in SL! Bah! Above is an excellent demonstration of their negative effects. Agreed, they can make for a more complex race, but some don't care for that. Nor for the drama thus created. Screw up in a non-ROW race and there are generally apologies all round and no overt bad feeling. Because there is no formal attachment of blame and no big deal is made of it. And anyone with half a brain quickly learns what is, and isn't, possible because in SL - which is where we are racing - things work rather differently than RL - or hadn't you noticed? Wonderful post Doc! And yes, I had noticed. See post #272 above. I fought hard on this forum against going to full ROW races, but in the weight of the fact that three of the top skippers came out in favor of full ROW and no one spoke in defense of No ROW I felt that I was alone in my view. Kanker advised me to do whatever I want in Hollywood regarding ROW (full, limited, or No). On the surface he is right of course. However it is my sincere desire to provide a fun sailing experience that the majority wants. THAT is fun for me. After debating with Pixeleen and Faykin I was torn since no voices supported No-Row. So when Eloise, whom I have great respect for, came out in favor of full ROW I felt that full ROW was inevitable even though I did not think SL was ready for it based on what I said in message #272. I am pleased to read your comments here on the topic. Thank you. So Eloise's insightful comments was the tipping point for me. My response was to announce full ROW in Hollywood racing. It has only taken one race to see that your concerns and mine were and are real. Frankly I DO want to see full ROW racing in Hollywood and SL when the community is large enough and with enough active skippers with good knowlege of the rules. My long range plan was to host both full ROW and no ROW races. As you probably know I canceled No ROW in Hollywood when the turn out became light. Only Nber and Helen were regulars at the end. I am pleased to see that you are starting up No-Row races again and and seriously considering making another go at No-ROW races at Starboards Yacht Club again. A week or so ago Pixeleen posted a message telling us all to WAKE UP! She talked about a relationship between USSAILING and SL sailing as if the idea was unique to her. It had been my plan all along to contact USSailing, Scuttlebutt, AMYA, and other sailing organizaitons about what we are doing in SL, when I felt we had a robust community to show them. In my view we were and are not quite ready to raise our skirts to the world of the big boaters. Very glad you are feeling better. Glad to see you involved again. Unfortunately I will be taking my RL boat out this weekend escorting the Audubon Society on their annual bird count. I will take a pelagic bird counting team out for the day on Saturday. So I won't be able to be there this week. But, as in your past races, I will be there if at all possible. _____________________
"Years from now you will be more disappointed
by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bow lines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the tradewinds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." -- Mark Twain MarkTwain White Living in Union Passage on the shores of the BLAKE SEA http://slsailing.COM |
Faykin Odets
Otter
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 38
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How things have been going here...
12-13-2005 08:00
Hey folks,
I've been watching the discussions occuring here, and it's been a hard, painful experience for me. I've been struggling with myself about why it's been so hard for me. I've also been struggling with what I want to do about it. This is why I haven't been involved up to now - I havevn't been able to figure out HOW I want to be involved. Well, it's become painful enought that I'm just gonna lay stuff on the line here. First and formost, I have met almost all of you and have gotten to know y'all. Nber, MarkTwain, Pixeleen, Kanker, Helen, Blue, and some I've probably missed, and I think you are all - without exception - wonderful people. Every one of you has enriched my life by being in my life, and I love you all. So watching you folks hurting each other is just tearing me up inside. Second, I think a lot of great ideas are being put forth here. ROW rulesets, how to implement them, enforcment processes, venue improvements, different race structures, lots of great ideas. I agree with most of them, and even the ones I don't agree with I think have value, because, after all, I COULD be wrong, couldn't I? (grin). But there is so much anger and resentment being passed along with the ideas, that I'm afraid that the good ideas are going to be lost... the baby tossed out with the bathwater, so to speak. So what's going wrong here? Why are good people at each other's throats here? Why are good ideas being lost in the noise of heated arguements? What can be done to improve the situation here? I think one of the difficulties we are facing is tying ideas too closely to individuals. If I disagree with "bob's idea", it will be very hard for bob to not take it personally, because I am tying bob to the idea. If, instead, I address the idea of, oh, blowing my nose with a hanky instead of ramming my fingers up my nose and pulling out chunks, we all can focus more on the ISSUE being discussed instead of the person who presented the issue. Now, it is no longer bob and I fighting each other, but bob and I discussing different methods to accomplish a common goal. And that's what we are really trying to do here... discuss different methods to accomplish the common goal of making sailing in SL more enjoyable, exciting, and fulfilling, isn't it? Please let me know if there is a different agenda out there! So, as a possible solution, I suggest that we focus on the process or concept that isn't working, instead of the person who did or said... well... whatever. As an example of what I mean: I don't think the ruleset that we sail under is really what's in question here... ROW, abridged ROW, no ROW, whatever. I think what's really the question here is what is a productive way to deal with a rules violation. Protest comittee? Who can be in a protest committee? how many people in a protest committee? what is the protest comittee trying to accomplish? how are the members of this comittee determined? how long does the comittiee have to reach it's conclusion? Is the committtee's conclusion final? Should debate be in IM's? Email? Chat? Forums? These processes are VERY nebulous at this point. In fact, I'd say the processes I've described are... well... broken. Let's fix the broken processes! Lets work together to find a workable solution to these concerns! Yes, there are a LOT of other ideas and concerns and solutions out there, and they all deserve our attention, as a community. Let's discuss the ideas, processes, and concerns of everyone in a productive and supportive fasion, focusing on what is being presented. In addition, I'd like to personally take responsibility for some of my choices and actions that have lead to the situation we are in now. MarkTwain, I would like to apologize for arguing with you earlier on the topic of full ROW ruleset. I spent too much time focusing on "your arguement" and "your idea", instead of addressing the topics being presented, specifically how much of the ISF ROW ruleset can be effectively implemented in second life. I am sorry for making my responses personal, and in the future I will try to address the ideas presented, not the presenter of the ideas. Helen Dayton, I would like to apologize for advocating implementation of a ruleset without concurrently advocating a process for addressing percieved violations. The lack of a defined process has resulted in your actions being publicly criticized, and that is not what you agreed to when you agreed to participate in the regatta. This lack of a defined process has resulted in you being treated in a fasion that you did not agree to, and for that I am sorry. In the future, I will advocate having a more clearly defined process that protects regatta participants from being forced to participate in activities beyond sailing without their explicit agreement. With love and wishes for happy holidays to all, Faykin |