Wednesday, again and again and again...
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-12-2006 13:34
/3/c6/129353/1.html Robin told, a few weeks ago, that the "wednesday downtime" policy would have been abandoned for something more balanced (and fair). My question is: When? A few wednesdays have passed, and disruptive scheduled bugtime continues to happen and show no sign of slowing down. So when?
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-12-2006 13:56
Right now they're still in a major update phase and there are also lots of bugs to clean up. I will suppose the more spread out updates will take place after this wave. MMOG companies do not change update schedules instantly. I want them to continue weekly until this wave of fixes are done, I'm still waiting for an important bug fix regarding the scripting edit window, and that's coming in 1.13.
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Duntroon Donburi
Registered Noob
Join date: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 129
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08-12-2006 14:07
doesnt having a set time really make it more practical? For people using SL in education and other RL applications (as examples), having the server going down more randomly that what we already have will make it even harder to utilize SL. At least with a set time people can plan around that. I know this isnt much comfort for those people who are effected though.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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08-12-2006 14:22
They are hoping to put the Group Tools update in the main grid this Wednesday. This is a fairly major change in the program. I would expect to have problems with such a major code change, and have grid closures following the update. There will most likely be people distressed about hating this or that aspect of the new Group Tools. This being a big change I expect more chance of more bugs than in some of the recent updates.
Those who want to try it out can try the preview grid. I am assuming that the Siva grid, with the most recent version, is the one to get promoted to the main grid.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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08-12-2006 14:39
This is very normal these days since they are doing upgrades are a "SET" time so the evolation of the client is more controlable. The days of quick fixes and rust updates to met deadlines seems to be the reasonforal this "WEDNESDAYS" times. Its all planned this way.
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Aodhan McDunnough
Gearhead
Join date: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 1,518
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08-12-2006 14:44
Even if it's regular maintenance with no update, I never had a problem with the wednesday shutdown. It's always during my prime time to log on (It's late evening for me) but I'm still ok with it. There's always RL to log in to. The second MMOG I played had regular downtimes on wednesday 7:30-12:00 (local time) like clockwork whether they were doing an update or not. A lot of the bean counter type players complained, but others like me got used to it. We'd rather they have scheduled maintenance than unexpected server downs. Sigh ... two updates more before I get my bug fixed ... that's if I'm lucky.
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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08-12-2006 15:09
Its 11pm my time......during these updates. Starting time and endling time more times then not i am asleep......I love my time zone 
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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08-12-2006 15:21
I think it's good idea to have updates every wednesday. The sooner they get the updates out, the sooner they can start fixing them.
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windozer Vargas
Registered User
Join date: 6 Feb 2006
Posts: 99
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08-12-2006 15:22
From: Usagi Musashi Its 11pm my time......during these updates. Starting time and endling time more times then not i am asleep......I love my time zone  you have an empty room? 
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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08-12-2006 15:25
From: windozer Vargas you have an empty room?  Looks arounds..........ekkkkkkkkkk wait I do have a extra closet 
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-12-2006 16:24
From: SuezanneC Baskerville They are hoping to put the Group Tools update in the main grid this Wednesday. This is a fairly major change in the program. I would expect to have problems with such a major code change, and have grid closures following the update. There will most likely be people distressed about hating this or that aspect of the new Group Tools. This being a big change I expect more chance of more bugs than in some of the recent updates. Those who want to try it out can try the preview grid. I am assuming that the Siva grid, with the most recent version, is the one to get promoted to the main grid. You know what's really neat? Pretty soon - not this Wednesday, but pretty soon - it will look like nobody is ever upset about anything! In fact, it will look like nobody even EXISTS! coco
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Frans Charming
You only need one Frans
Join date: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,847
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08-12-2006 18:28
From: Ingrid Ingersoll I think it's good idea to have updates every wednesday. The sooner they get the updates out, the sooner they can start fixing them. LOL  Anyway, it is nice stable factor in my week. Can catch up to someother stuff. Allways oppertunities. 
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-13-2006 08:21
I wouldn't mind the stability if the scheduled downtime wasn't followed (and lately even preceeded) by several hours of completely unstable scheduled bugtime. If they can't do clean updates, at least i think i'd be better to space them out more.
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Elror Gullwing
Registered User
Join date: 6 Sep 2004
Posts: 306
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Post Partum Lag....
08-13-2006 10:33
Wish more updates could be 'rolling' updates, or at least maybe only 2 Wednesday's per month.
As we all know, the 2-3 days following any version update can be extremely buggy, laggy, and even result in extended grid downtime as "unexpected glitches" are fixed. (i.e.... lack of thorough testing and/or the rush to get the new version out on Wednesday.)
Therefore, we live in a perpetual state of what I term "post partum lag". We might have 2, maybe 3 days of relative stability.... then, it is WEDNESDAY..... again, and again, and again......
Oh well. I am just one of the lab rats. "HEY! WHERE'S MY CHEESE?!!"
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-13-2006 11:53
Indeed we do (live in that perpetual state).
Normally, a company would be trying to make things better for us, but I think they have some motivation that requires full speed ahead on updates and fixings and updates and fixings, etc., that doesn't have anything to do with us.
coco
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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08-13-2006 12:19
"Lack of thourough testing" Testing where? Most of these problems seem to come from scaling. The preview is underpopulated and probably too small anyway. Do you honestly belive the code that hits release has only been in the bin for a week?
In fact, as I understand it the latest wave of problems comes from a re-thinking of part of the back-end to improve the problems they've been having with scaling. But as with all transitions it's been bumpy.
I have no idea why so many see conspiracy or incompetence here. Where LL has been far from perfect about thier descisions, it's clearly quite beyond the pale to attribute more than compounded mistakes to the current condition of SL.
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Jopsy Pendragon
Perpetual Outsider
Join date: 15 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,906
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08-13-2006 12:43
Sigh. Folks SHOULD go to the preview grid and TEST stuff instead of complaining on the forums about the wednesday downtime.
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Julia Banshee
Perplexed Pixie
Join date: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 97
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08-13-2006 13:37
From: Jillian Callahan I have no idea why so many see conspiracy or incompetence here. Having been on many game forums, I've come to accept that if a perfect god were running a perfect game, 50% of forum posters would complain about gross incompetence.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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08-13-2006 13:41
There are currently two preview grids running, Siva and Aditi, both running 1.12. Siva has the more current version.
Which is getting maingridded Wednesday?
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
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Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
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08-13-2006 13:49
neither, the linden post states that its only a maintance downtime (that requires you to upgrade your client) probally 1.11.3(2) or 1.11.4 
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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08-13-2006 17:24
The ressoning behind wednesdays is just a structure ida from the workers within LLabs. If all the workers and budget their one day week. Knowing that there is a group work day, to do fixs and other shedual time down time there is a more stable and relibal client is the result. If you have scadders unplanned ipdates you don` have a"KEY" people doing the their speicaity works for the client. Hence you get JUNK unstable screwed etc etc etc etc etc etc updates. I believe thisis the reason for this rational.
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Jayson Whittaker
xD
Join date: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 220
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08-13-2006 17:35
I actually don't know much about the wednesday shut down, I've never been online when it is so I suppose it happens when I'm in bed.. I'm glad it isn't friday then... Friday is the only night I get stuff done because I'm on from 8pm to 10am 
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Shiryu Musashi
Veteran Designer
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,045
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08-13-2006 18:02
From: Jillian Callahan "Lack of thourough testing" Testing where? Most of these problems seem to come from scaling. The preview is underpopulated and probably too small anyway. Do you honestly belive the code that hits release has only been in the bin for a week? In fact, as I understand it the latest wave of problems comes from a re-thinking of part of the back-end to improve the problems they've been having with scaling. But as with all transitions it's been bumpy. I have no idea why so many see conspiracy or incompetence here. Where LL has been far from perfect about thier descisions, it's clearly quite beyond the pale to attribute more than compounded mistakes to the current condition of SL. That's exactly where the incompetence is (i haven't got to the point of conspiracy theories yet, i think it's just plain incompetence). The preview is underpopulated and major bugs slip trough EVERY single time. This simply means that LL's testing facilities are too weak: From: Jopsy Pendragon Sigh. Folks SHOULD go to the preview grid and TEST stuff instead of complaining on the forums about the wednesday downtime. When i read this kind of justification i honestly smile of a sad smile. Players pay to be on the main grid, not to be LL's testing team. We are already LL's content creation team, wich spares them a LOT of money from creating a competent and functional one by themselves, maybe they should understand that they have to do part of the work themselves. Testing is a good example. Sure, part of the community can HELP testing as volunteers, as it happens somewhere else. But the RESPONSIBILITY of testing definately doesn't rest (or shouldn't rest) on the shoulders of the paying customer. This is where the incompetence lies. If major bugs slip in at every update LL should finally realize that their testing facilities are insufficent, and as such strenghten them, otherwise they should at least give more time to such lacking facilities to do their work.
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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08-13-2006 18:17
From: Osgeld Barmy neither, the linden post states that its only a maintenance downtime (that requires you to upgrade your client) probably 1.11.3(2) or 1.11.4  Torley's blog says From: someone We’re hoping to get Second Life 1.12, with the new Groups system and Estate Land Sales, out next week, along with other enhancements. SO much hard work went into it, my admiration goes out to my coworkers like Don and Kelly and Jonathan and Brent on the Groups project, who encouraged me to get involved finding bugs in the early stages… I ended up doing assistance with help text. Nothing fancy, just things that needed to be done. And of course I must thank all our Resis who came by on Preview and helped catch problems before they made it out onto production. http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/08/11/some-more-fixes-coming-your-way/There is no 1.11.3(2) or 1.11.4 in a user accessible preview.
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.
I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to
http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne
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http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.
Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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08-13-2006 18:28
From: Shiryu Musashi That's exactly where the incompetence is (i haven't got to the point of conspiracy theories yet, i think it's just plain incompetence). The preview is underpopulated and major bugs slip trough EVERY single time. This simply means that LL's testing facilities are too weak: They are - that's clear. You interested in paying for a proper testing method? I can't. From: Shiryu Musashi When i read this kind of justification i honestly smile of a sad smile. Players pay to be on the main grid, not to be LL's testing team. We are already LL's content creation team, wich spares them a LOT of money from creating a competent and functional one by themselves, maybe they should understand that they have to do part of the work themselves. Testing is a good example. Sure, part of the community can HELP testing as volunteers, as it happens somewhere else. But the RESPONSIBILITY of testing definately doesn't rest (or shouldn't rest) on the shoulders of the paying customer. This is where the incompetence lies. If major bugs slip in at every update LL should finally realize that their testing facilities are insufficent, and as such strenghten them, otherwise they should at least give more time to such lacking facilities to do their work. Easy to say. You have any suggestions on how they might manage to put thier code into the sort of large-scale and intense testing it needs? If you can manage that without doubling or tripling customer costs, that'd be best.
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