NWN update on "Impeach Bush" controversy-- please post actions here!

This is a crosspost from another thread with the hope of influencing Hamlet's article.

This problem is one that has existed in SL for as long as I've been a member. Whether it's ugly builds, for-sale signs, or political signs, the problem stems from the fact that users have complete freedom to do on their land what they desire as long as it's within the ToS. The reason things are they way they are is that these limitations can be simply implemented using a permissions-based system which doesn't require Linden intervention. Building limits are part of the underlying SL technology.

To modify this, one can bluntly extend the technology to limit what texture an individual can see either by parcel (structures winking in and out as one flies) or by avatar (some users will see ugly grey blocks about). It must be a technological solution because LL is a hands-off government, choosing to reduce overhead by coding general limitations into the system and providing users with a built-in emergency call box for especially nasty crimes.

What must be particularly unappealing for them is that they would have to convolute a relatively simple underlying code to allow for individuals to create a per-parcel or per-avatar virtual covenant. The optimal solution of course, is to simply create global, real covenants, however those require government or more specifically user-run government (since the Lindens are averse to the overhead associated with hands-on government). Examples of successful working user-run governments with covenants are Luskwood and Neualtenburg, which even has a fledgling legal system.

In short there are very little clean solutions for such a problem. The Lindens have never taken any step towards curbing the power (and audacity) of land barons nor have the ever varied from the principle of liberty within the ToS on one's own land. My recommendation is that individuals form or join communities with true deeds and covenants, if they dislike these signs.

~Ulrika~

There's what it says, and what it intends.

Nobody who took a civics class in high school could argue but that many of the constitutional convention felt the rights enumerated should rightfully apply to all humans, even if their idea of "human" looks a bit limited from here ("no women! and nobody with dark skin! and no poor people!".

Disagree. It would be a change of policy. Nothing more.


Disagree. If there was no message, then the signs would serve no purpose. Sure, someone could still go around intentionally putting up ugly builds all over the place -- but why?

A rather abrupt and pointless change of policy, especially considering the freedom of creation and expression that SL specifically touts. Everything BUT politics? What about the other two no-nos, sex and religion? I personally find religion much more intolerable, but would we be having this discussion if it was Jesus up on those boxes instead of Bush?

And past that - who is going to enforce it? How much will tier increase so LL can hire more staffers to check into reports of political builds or textures? What constitutes a political build or texture?



I'm certainly not arguing that I believe his intent is not political in nature, but financially driven. However, what I believe isn't applicable. He has stated that what he's doing is a politically motivated statement, and he's within his rights via the TOS to do so.

However, possibly only one person that I've heard from on these forums complained about the content of his message - the reason everyone is upset is because they spoil the view from their own parcels, and/or they're concerned about the value of their land going down. Literally any other image on a floating cube would have the same effect. Barring political speech from SL would do nothing except curtail our own freedoms while stopping Lazarus and his ilk for maybe a day.

FYI, at one point one of our beloved residents decided to auction off 1700sm of 16sm parcels covering 80 sims. Given the past history of known griefing to have occurred on these small parcels, Anshe offered up $10 per sm to buy the parcels for distribution to residents living in the sims. This offer was added to by a few residents, including myself, but it was not accepted as others came in with higher offers. The seller stated that his goal was to get $100 per sm.

By the way, that "our favorite Asian land baroness" line of yours makes you come across as rather simple to me.

1) My feature proposal to allow black-listing has jumped in votes over the past week and is now one of the most popular proposals in the User Interface category. That should be somewhat indicative of how much this issue means to the userbase. It's already up to 235 Votes as of this writing!

2) There's one thing that I think a lot of people have simply not considered. Specifically, I'm referring to those who are calling for Linden Labs to take more direct action against this user. It is this:
Acting against this user or having their signs removed in any way is a potential PR nightmare waiting to happen. I think we as users understand the complexity of the situation. WE understand that this is not necessarily a true exercise of political free speech. WE understand that this is likely a simple extortion scheme. But all it takes is one journalist misportraying this event as a supression of freedoms here in SL...
Think about it this way. There IS no story if LL does nothing about this guy. However, if they make him take is signage down, it's not so unrealistic that some idiot will post an article on Slashdot stating "Linden Labs concedes to Bush Supporters. Has anti-Bush signs removed from Grid!" I'm not trying to knock Hamlet's profession, but let's be honest. Journalists are downright notorious for misinterpreting situations and facts or misquoting people in favor of sensationalism. The whole idea that LL might cave to user pressure and remove political statements from the grid could cause a major furvor amongst the techno-literati and I don't think they want to deal with even the possibility that they might be associated with "censorship". In this light, they will very gladly put up with land owners selling off their land and/or quitting- so long as they don't give some rogue "journalist" an opening to truly screw up their image. In other words, WE all know this is not a free speech issue. But the rest of the world could be led to believe otherwise and THAT, my friends, would truly cost Linden Lab dearly. So stop already with all this whining about LL doing nothing. Either they've already got a technical solution in the works or they don't intend to make a move at all. Period. End of story. No more whiny threads about their inaction, please.

Persig

I agree with Lordfly et al, but this is something that was proposed:

/130/93/80668/1.html

alternatively you could get the tax revolt article and do a search and replace...

.. title it "Same shit on a different day"

Using excess tier to buy small parcels of land that are for sale anywhere near my own properties before they can be put to use by someone else. Many of the people protesting the Bush'els of Peaches are also the people leaving these small parcels for sale to anyone.

Sigh,,,go figure.

You missed:

Ignore the bush signs guy.
Build a wall to block the signs.
Sell property and move.
Buy his over priced property.
Spam the forums until your heard.

I'm with Coco however, why are you asking? Will majority rule in the end? Now that would be mind bending.

Most real life communities have zoning restrictions that determine the use to which land can be used. If you are in a residential neighborhood you will get fined if you put grabage on your lot, or create an eye sore for the other neighbors. Some communities limit even the color you can paint your home. Community Associations further restrict when you can even post political signs before an election. These "deed restrictions" benefit everyone who buys land in that community, they are assured the vaule of thier homes will not be adversly impacted by such tactics as the impeach bush guy is using to get people to buy his land at extorted prices that he intentionally makes ugly.

Linden Labs should take a page from real life to solve the same problem that communities in real life have already used to solve this same problem. Land owners should not be subject to this form of extortion, and there should be rules against this and a way to enforce them, that will protect everyone's property values from this nuciance.

Lovepeace Languish

SL tries to be RL unfortunatly for ppl like me we long onto SL to escape RL. No one ever seems to factor us folks into the RL plans for SL. sigh.

Just Keep tiring down and I ll keep Buying it up.
LOL

I just have to say this has nearly made me a new land baron.

Thanks!

> why are you asking?

Pretty simple, really: I'm a contractor for Linden Lab; my contract with New World Notes is to cover SL as an emerging society. Since writing the original entry about it, the controversy over the "Impeach Bush" signs has substantially increased-- at least in the Forums-- to a degree of intensity where I'd be derelict not to write some kind of follow-up. What I'm trying to determine now is whether it's a controversy confining to the Forums, or whether it's also congealing into substantial collective action meant to directly impact SL.

One resident made this series of protest signs, funny stuff. They're available for free on slexchange.

http://www.slexchange.com/modules.php?name=Marketplace&file=item&ItemID=36846

Ah, your friend Proky is teaching you well.

I have done nothing, but wander around and look at as many signs as possible. I have found a number of them not for sale. Of course I found a large number of billboards for other business too. But mostly in world the sign controversey does not affect me, thankfully. All though I have formulated a list of unsightly builds that I will ask to be removed as visual extorition should the prevailing winds change.

I did this. To see an example, go to Uzume, the center of the sim has a huge tower of signs spinning inside my blockade.

Enjoy.

I did a little perusal of the for Land for Sale list this morning, and though I wasn't super-cautious, I did come up with these findings:

365 discrete properties for sale
30,504 m of land for sale

Most of these (0ver 13k meters) were for plots 64m or under. Of those, 107 were for 16m, 52 were for 32 m, 28 were for 48m, and 135 were for 64m. The largest plot for sale was on the list was for 4096m.

Now I didn't do this HUGELY carefully, so some of the numbers are no doubt a a bit off. Glancing through them, all I saw were super-high prices, but I didn't make notes on that. Taking a look at just a few of them, I found such descriptions as:

"Don't buy this land. It's too expensive."
"Hi, Mom!"
and "I'm so cool," or something like that (I wasn't taking notes on the descriptions).

Someone else might do a more careful job of this, including facts regarding what the average prices charged for these plots are.

coco

Technological solution:
/108/36/79775/1.html

Action - I bought a few parcels in Tan near boardman to be rid of it. Yes, I fed the gaping maw of extortion, but it immediately caused sighs of relief to two sims

There is little else that can be done, I've tried to think of possible solutions but they're too restrictive to other legit interests.

Good luck, Linden Lab.

I've never met Prok personally so I don't know what you mean.

I'm waiting for signs that say "Say NO to Bush - Go Brazilian" to appear

Lewis

Ouch!

Well really I think the biggest action has been the debate in the forums. It has been heated yes, and sustained, but I think it has driven right to the heart of critical issues in SL with good points being raised on either side (though obviously my side is the correct one lol). I think the ongoing debate in the forums really is a campagin of some sorts to force resolution of the issue and comment from LL as to why.
Clearly they need to either reaffirm thier initial decision, or if they are going to change it, they need to do so. But I think both sieds of the issue have been waging a systmeatic campaign of awareness in the forums.

I read through them forums and I am struck by the fact that this is, in all its glory, political debate. Argument and counter argument. It is a society trying to carve out the principles by which it is governed, but without power to put it to a vote or effect resolution. Unfortunatly in the forms we are not empowered to effect compromise, so its hard to put yourself in a position of considering how to make it law. But this debate does highlight the process of adversarial understanding. It is more chaotic than congress or the house of commons, none the less, argument and debate are the core of any democracy, and by and lage this has been conducted well.