Worst upgrade so far?

You got that right. Maybe I am just the loudest mouthed obnoxious smack talker, but my opinion is certainly valid and on topic in this thread and I am not alone.

I do apologize for everyone seeing me lose my cool and resort to a retaliatory attack on Elex, but his response to me was not needed considering the events of this week.

I apologize to the forum crowd for being an ass. Those with more than 30 posts I mean

sorry, off topic, but I just find this portion of your post so hilarious, Coco, I had to re-emphasize it! hahahahaha!

I'm Mulch's business partner/girlfriend, and I appreciate the support he's received in this thread, even though he's been something of an ass in response to Elex.

Your rational, level headed comments are soooo appreciated because we are frustrated with our rides not working. They are great rides, and we love them, and so do so many others who come to visit us. The talented creators who made them also deserve to not have this happen to them. It's saddening to pour yourself into creating something outstanding (and the Rocket Ride To The Moon was definitely OUTSTANDING, and should have won awards somewhere!), only to have it become non-functional.

We did not have the knowledge you all have shared regarding scripts and updates, etc. which also is a source of frustration to us, so thank you for enlightening us, and we will continue to hope for the best while holding off on hitting the sale button again.

Also, understand that 1.7 is the only major update Mulch or I have experienced, and the "bad businessman" comments hit a bit below the belt considering Mulch runs a very successful rl business.

Spoken like a gentleman.

A simple search of this thread makes it clear that at no point did I refer to Mulch as a "bad businessman." Take a moment and search it yourself. I merely felt it was a poor decision to kill his amusement park instead of being patient with the version 1.7 upgrade and that other players should be encouraged to plan, persist, and be patient as upgrades and rules changes happen. I also felt that his statement that the upgrade had forced his hand in the shuttering of his amusement park, and thus LL had killed it, was simply a way of finding someone else to blame for his own decision.

Ok, you are correct, no sign of the phrase "bad businessman."

Let's see what I do find however:



Ok, so you didn't say I was a bad businessman, but the word failed is a recurring theme in your criticism. Is it a wonder that I took your "postmortem" as implying that I am a failure with "only myself to blame"? You also hammer that this was a business endeavor even though I stated it was a hobby; a game.

You also stated that I failed to think ahead, and that I was not investing in more rides. This is false as I had purchased a new ride 2 days prior to 1.7 (that is now broke), I have one ride in my inventory waiting for when I make some decisions about organization and placement, a deal to install a new roller coaster, and another 2 attractions that have a couple, minor bugs to be worked out before they can be launched. Combine that with the Rocket to the Moon Ride that is set up, but due to permission issues, can only be operated when I am present, that is 6 brand spanking new rides.

And the large amount of land that we purchased was to accommodate growth and expansion as more rides were added so that we could use inter sim teleports from ride to ride and a people mover type ride to connect it in a scenic manner. Look at Knotts Berry Farm vs Six Flags Magic Mountain. Knotts is located in the middle of the city, there is no more land they can buy to expand, so in order to add new rides, they have to tear down rides. Magic mountain on the other hand, is located in a canyon with acres and acres of land all around it. The only ride I know of that they have removed in the last 10 years is because it causes whiplash, and they have 15 roller coasters (added 3 in one year because they had the room to expand).

That land was purchased to ensure we had maximum space to accommodate any rides we wanted to add. That was when we assumed that everything would be backwards compatible because this was the stance LL presented.

So you have based your condemnation on my failure to plan even though you had no knowledge to back up your assumption.

As far as persisting, it is illogical to persist at doing something that is breaking for reasons beyond my control, and in the future, I still won't have control over whatever wrench gets thrown in the gears from LL.

And patience, I waited almost a full week before even TRYING out my rides as I know that upgrades can be problematic.

I have taken my land off the market as Ian Linden at the Town Hall yesterday has offered to help us find why the scripts are failing and make adjustments if possible.

Now, on to your repeated use of the money factor to measure success. My original use of the dwell was to illustrate that there is no reward besides smiling peoples faces, and when my rides die, I just spent a bunch of money and I can't even make people happy anymore.

Here are some key comments regarding money, dwell and tier I made in the posts prior to you throwing the word fail around like the Flying Karamazov Brothers on crank. I mentioned the money that I was paying to tier to
1) illustrate how LL depends on user created content
2) Show that the reward (monetizing efforts as LL would say) is way out of proportion for someone who creates an engaging environment vs someone who makes an item and throws it into a vendor.



Sure I mentioned money, but I never did this to produce an income, I did it to make a fun place, meet cool people, and enjoy myself.

And sure, money became an issue because Sansarya and I spent a lot of money to put this together only to have our efforts negated by forces beyond out control. If insurance would have been available, I would have purchased it. But these changes don't effect LL, they still make their money. I'm left wondering what I am paying for, so yeah, they make a decision that penalizes my efforts yet keeps them in the black, and I am going to question it.

And the reason I bring sellable items into the equation is because those content creators invest nothing but their time and talent (not to demean time or talent at all, btw) into LL in the way I pay tier (many do, but the point is they don't have to). Even you Elex, put how many hours a day sitting behind your bar?

As Sansarya mentioned I run a successful business and in fact, don't have to work much at all to make money. When I do work for others in a consulting or independent contractor capacity, I make at minimum $20 an hour. If you sit behind that bar for 5 hours Elex, are you pulling in $100 USD for that?

Now lets look at a successful sellable content creator, just randomly, the very talented Munchflower. Her skins sell for about L$3000 each. Although she does own a very large plot of land, she doesn't have too. She could spend less than L$3000 a week renting vendors all over the grid (as well as using the many free vendors out there)

I have no idea if these figures are realistic or not, so please Munchflower, don't flame me if I make any mistakes on this hypothetical, but lets say she was on salary for $20 an hour and a given skin takes 20 hours to make. So that is $400 salary she would expect, and we will call that her investment. Now lets say she sells 2 of that skin a day. in One month, after vendor rent is paid , she would make $700 or so USD, $300 more than her investment in time. Now add that yearly, and an assortment of skins she sells. She has no cap on her earnings. And it is quite significant earnings at that.

Now someone who "just" creates a free public space to make people happy, showcase SLs features, and provides the content that LL doesn't in terms of interactive environments has no way in hell of making that much.

I am not here to make money, I am here to have fun, but if you can't see the discrepancy between the 2 classes of content creators and why I might mention the investment that a sellable item vs a land based environment, then I don't know what else to say.

I said breaking even would be nice, but knowing how dwell worked before I started this endeavor it was never an expectation. But if LL wants people to have places to go to showcase all that SL is capable of, they better figure out a way to stop breaking things when they upgrade and make it worth it to people to create engaging environments. Spitoonie was much loved as well as Barbados just to name 2 places that were wonderful, memorable places that had to go bye bye because there is a ceiling on your earning power vs sellable content.

I'm a little tired and I fear I may not be as clear as I want to be, but I did my best to explain why I even mentioned money in the first place. It is problematic to SLs survival if that ceiling is so low for people that invest the most.

And Elex, now that you are at 30 posts, I would like to apologize for being so angry in my responses. Its just being called a failure, being told I didn't plan correctly or that I expected too much, and accused of expecting some fat paycheck didn't jive with the facts that you didn't know as I didn't state them in my posts. And of course, this is compounded by the actual topic of this post, worst upgrade ever, and my post detailed how it effected me. You telling me it was my fault felt like you were rubbing salt in a wound that was certainly not self inflicted. And your steadfast attention to financial matters, which weren't a problem and were only mentioned because I was left wondering what I was paying for and I wandered into the territory of an unlevel playing field in land based content investment/return and hard goods content investment/return (which in reality is a whole seperate subject altogether).

Based on Ian Lindens promise to investigate the problems, and scripters who are still here and proud enough of their creations that they will work with me to get things running again, the land is no longer for sale and we will once again try to keep Mars Hotel alive.

Yes, you're right, the specific words "bad businessman" were never used, but the implication remains the same.

We did plan for expansion of our park and club while all the time seeking out the newest, most exciting rides we could find or imagine. Thus, the large land purchase.

We were also waiting to see what kind of response a "hippie amusement park" might get from the SL public and were pleased to find a good steady stream of visitors. We got barked at a lot by a land owner in a neighboring sim who didn't want "yellow ribbons" (roller coaster track) hanging in the sky ruining their view, but the location of our sim is almost dead center of mainland, and our visitors are often new residents seeking out help, friendship and interesting things to do who see the yellow ribbons and fly down to see what's going on. Not what we planned, but if it works...

We had and have no intention of griefing anyone with our rides, but the sim remains primarily a commercial sim (a bathhouse, baby store and textures store share space with us on Pierce). A bonus was that we've seen several of our frequent visitors go on to make their own amusement parks, which was inspiring to us both and also contributed to the successful business of roller coaster building for our good friend, Madwand Thatch.

Point of all this being, we have provided engaging content, contributed to the success of others, and inspired other SL residents to create their own fun places. Although we don't believe anyone owes us for the rides or for our contribution, we have to face the fact that the infrastructure of SL will not allow for better rides and we may as well call it a night. We tried, things beyond our control may force us to close, and so we are not so much failures as we are gullible for believing LL would continue to grow their technology to support the cutting edge rides we provided. Thus, we both voted that 1.7 was the worst update ever (and the only one we've experienced, lol, so what else COULD we vote? I think Poll Design 101 might be something needed in SL Forums). Now we are forewarned and can move forward, hopefully with working rides, but if not, c'est la vie. We will close our park, maybe keep our club and spend our time doing tringo/bingo/slingo or whatever...(not really, we both hate that, haha). And really, we were only trying to socialize in our place, just as people do at the Elbow Room, with out hearing "When you fuck me I'm bilingual" fiftyonethousand times in a night of dancing.

BTW, I just have to mention Elex that your Elbow Room was sort of what brought Mulch and me together It was one of the first places I went to in SL, and also Mulch's. We were both turned off by the sex clubs, both remembered being in a simple bar, and found it again together. Mutual appreciation of your place also inspired us to create a clean, fun atmosphere for adults to enjoy themselves without the sleaze. The irony of this whole mess of a thread is that we both have admired you greatly for your recognition of the need for places like The Elbow Room in SL and for providing it. Thank you!

I do hope you told said land owner where they could shove their opinions - a place for which there is no attachment point and certainly no bling shining from...

If not - IM me in world and I'll gladly tell them what they can do with a torus -- on the air.

People who are concerned about the view - should buy the view - or STFU.


Siggy.

(Call me a F.U. Hedonist if you want - I'll call you a 'horse you rode in on idiot'.)

Well, Mulch remains unintimidated by Prok, but me...I just smile and say hello and pretend I don't read that well

I rate this thread a 3 of 10. It started interesting, and then became a boring rant between Mulch and (whoever decided to argue with him). BO-RING!

If i argue with you Hiro, will that make it more interesting?

And honestly, did I asked to be reamed? I just said why i thought this was a bad update and was told that I was a failure. I wish this thread didn't happen, because #1 i wish my rides still worked and #2, I actually liked Elex and admired his work ethic.

I would hope Elex and I could again smoke a peace pipe, but my dumb dego hotheadedness made me say some things that were not very nice.

Hey ... not saying it's your fault, but dude... look at the thread objectively. Bo-ring. Sorry man, that's just the way it is.

No funny pictures, no real insights gained into the matter... just a lot of low-level debate.

Which - dont' get me wrong - is fine ... just ... *yawn*

as for my two posts, well... I just thought it was time someone pointed out that the thread is a zombie

Please, feel free to add as many funny pictures as you would like.

but when i am discussing, I am discussing. deciding whether to sell $800+ USD in land and abandon something I was invested in is kinda serious to me. And yes, I agree, the thread is dead. It doesn't mean I won't respond if prompted in the correct manner, but, discussing topics that mean something ain't always gonna be funny. But if you depend on me to provide you laffs, I must quote what some random jabroni said in some way at some time in some manner:



If you really want funny , join somethingawful forums.

As insane to expect or believe it, at times, the SL forums can have serious discussions from time to time.

So very kind of you to aplogize to me after I met your post-conditional quota for forum posting.

However, based on the things you said about me, my bar, my patrons, what you consider to be my lack of a contribution to SL, that I've failed to maintain prim consumption according to your standards, that I've "gamed" the system, and that I am part of an unlevel playing field then I must decline your proffered claw and instead return to the surface-world.

I am under no obligation to respond to replies made to this post.

Well I am sorry I didn't respond more favorably to being called a failure.

And the things I said about your patrons and your 256 grandfathering, came from your hand first. So sorry your own words came back to haunt you. I was under no obligation to keep your words secret.

And the 30 post quota was a feeble attmept at a joke. I was only saying that to keep Hiro entertained, but I FAILED there as well.

Some people have arrogance oozing out of their pores. Just saying.

And nobody's under any obligation to reply to this post, just so you know.

"I mentioned the money that I was paying to tier to
1) illustrate how LL depends on user created content
2) Show that the reward (monetizing efforts as LL would say) is way out of proportion for someone who creates an engaging environment vs someone who makes an item and throws it into a vendor."

One of SL's major problems, in a nutshell.

coco

As I stated before, you failed to persist with your enterprise, and when faced with a setback due to version 1.7, you decided to shutter your amusement park and blame the Lindens. Ultimately, the decision to close your park was your's alone.



I'm sure I did not deride my patrons. Grandfathering of land parcels does not exist within the game. I have made no statements that haunt me. If you are under no obligation to keep what one player might say as a secret then this lack of an obligation would extend to all other players and they might wish to be wary of conversations, confidential or otherwise, with you in the future.



Then I suggest you don't open a comedy club.

How do you want this to end Elex?

I thought you were "under no obligation to respond to replies made to this post."

I have gone well beyond explaining my position. I even apologized. But now I am under the impression you want an all out brawl or have been aroused by our battle in some wierd way.

I should probably just put you on ignore, but since approx 1/6 of your total posts for an entire year have been insulting me and calling me a failure in a 48 hour period, I think I will save the effort and allow you to meander back into whatever state you were before my critique of 1.7 awoke the beast within, or, watch you go insane in a public forum and thank the Lord I recovered before I sank to such depths.

You don't want to accept my apology or agree to disagree, fine, I can deal, I'm all growed up and my life doesn't end if someone develops a distaste for me.

But I have already made an ass of myself in this thread bickering with you, if you wish to inhabit the lower level, you do so on your own. I am going to try to restore my own dignity and act in a manner I should have prior to my realizing the ridiculous level I have allowed my behavior to decend to.

There really isn't any more that needs to be said between us.

Mulch, ignore is definitely your friend here.

actually, in this sense, HUD means Heads Up Display, and SL didn't claim it as their own.

I see NO evidence of more avs in being able to co exist in a sim...anyone? anyone?
I'm with ya too Mulch...tho I am not experiencing any problems with my coaster...we just want to make SL a fun place to come and play so...let me know if I can help.

Mulch, don't get upset, clearly Elex is just attempting to break some sort of obscure record for the most times "under no obligation" can be said in a single post.

I am under no obligation to respond to posts that refer to my use of the phrase "under no obligation."

Thank you. The emergency is over. Please return to your homes.

Between this post and the "of all the complaints a Linden responded to this one?" about the gun, you're on the fast track to being my new favorite poster.

And Lizbeth, thank you. My coaster still works (laaaaaaggggg) so Madwand is still me hero =)

I have taken a breather and are letting LL do their thing before I try the other rides again. Resetting DID NOT work on my last try.

I am not really feeling anyproblems really. I even more stable then before. Mayeb its all the stolen programs that people have no their computer with spyware etc on their system causing he slow do on preformace.............Well if you don`t have any on your system when there is no worry then no