Welcome to the Second Life Forums Archive

These forums are CLOSED. Please visit the new forums HERE

So someone is selling large and illegal prims that they stole from me.

Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
09-03-2006 22:50
From: Eddy Stryker
Gene, before the prim size sanity checks were added everyone was able to make them. And you claim that they are "illegal" (against the law? what state/country do you live in where big prims are illegal? Is it a misdemeanor or a felony?), but admit to having them and giving them out. Hopefully this thread isn't used against you when the FBI knocks on your door.

People shouldn't be paying for these strange prims though, you can get them for free with full permissions by asking the right people :-).

The fact that anyone could make them is not contested, however they are "illegal" to the system as they do not follow it's "laws" and could potentialy cause problems (and they already have).
Shouldn't libsl be used for good, not evil?
_____________________
Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus.
Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower.
Japanese Jesus, where are you?
Pragmatic!
Jesse Malthus
OMG HAX!
Join date: 21 Apr 2006
Posts: 649
09-03-2006 22:53
From: Lost Newcomb
No one stole any prims,

Like I said on the 2nd post in this thread, this is an advert. It's his friend selling it. If you IM him to get it he'd ask for oral sex (happend to someone in scripting group).

You guys are aware that these guys are from Satyr sim.

OH NOES THE EVIL W-HATS ZOMG!
And I fail to see how you prove that it's his friend selling them from that URL...
_____________________
Ruby loves me like Japanese Jesus.
Did Jesus ever go back and clean up those footprints he left? Beach Authority had to spend precious manpower.
Japanese Jesus, where are you?
Pragmatic!
Jon Rolland
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2005
Posts: 705
09-03-2006 23:03
From: Joannah Cramer
Well that's one way to make some Linden(s) drop work on whatever they're coding at the moment and waste time on putting prim dimensions check in the rezz code, or whatever o.O;


What a horrible shame that would be. If they are gonna prioritize the issue I'd far rather see them take that coding time to restrict prims greater than 10m from turning physical and add a check to right clicking and return/deleting a prim to see if it hangs over your parcel. Then unrestrict prim size. With proper checks and balances huge prims are an extremely useful and valuable object. It's a shame to see LL being reactionary and simply restricting.

ps SLX Sales Rank : #2 Obviously I'm not alone in wanting access to huge prims.
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
09-04-2006 00:09
LL should just punish prim abuse, not the making of prims that *might* be abused instead of purely been put to positive use. Or better yet, LL should allow residents to punish abuse directly and stop wasting time policing.
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
grumble Loudon
A Little bit a lion
Join date: 30 Nov 2005
Posts: 612
09-04-2006 00:19
The problem is that, as far as I can tell, the "draw distance" is based on the center of the prim.
This means that people like me that have the "draw distance" to 64m would not be able to see the cube until we are inside of it!

Then there is object oclusion and the oct-tree boxes.

I think LL should allow the Z axis to be streatched to 30m, however it would be tricky to have the sim prevent someone streatch it and then flip it on it's side.

For now it looks like my "rez on demand" concept is still the best option for the tree to support my 700m high skybox.

Evetualy we will be able to build underground and the great underground empire will be born. :D
Seagel Neville
Far East User
Join date: 2 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,476
09-04-2006 00:48
From: Lost Newcomb
No one stole any prims,

Like I said on the 2nd post in this thread, this is an advert. It's his friend selling it. If you IM him to get it he'd ask for oral sex (happend to someone in scripting group).

You guys are aware that these guys are from Satyr sim.
It is possible that the OP not only beats the drum for it, but also protects himself from the Lindens or the buyers when something happens. How cunning!

Speaking of "illeagal", at least the Lindens seem not to think it is illegal, but just a bug according to Andrew. It is not the responsibilty of the creator anyway, but the Lindens who left the bug if they really didn't like it.

If the OP really wants to prove his innocence, I think he should distribute them for free as usual as he mentioned? Don't the Lindens allow him to do that? Tell them just to fix it soon. The more people use them, the sooner they ought to fix it if they really didn't like it.

If he doesn't care his innocence or is guilty in fact, everybody should still buy and use them. The reason is the exact same with the above. Only the Lindens know the end.
_____________________
:) Seagel Neville :)
Ledje Gorky
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2005
Posts: 126
09-04-2006 11:03
**Me makes sure no Linden is watching*

If someone could provide me with some no-transfer version of these.....i would eternally gratefull (well sortoff ).

*me dreams of allthe cool builds he would make with this*
Ron Overdrive
Registered User
Join date: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,002
09-04-2006 11:03
Here's my 2cents and Yiffy already knows this:

They are using a hack to create these prims. A hack that is circumventing restrictions placed within SL on prim sizes. This isn't like Temp-On-Rez'ers wich used LSL to get around restrictions, this is a client hack. External code to manipulate the SL client beyond what its suppose to be allowed. A question I feel MUST be asked is "What else?" What else can this hack bypass? Can it bypass the Godmode restrictions allowing them to actually steal content? Can they alter YOUR land settings bypassing No Push? Make it UnSafe so they can kill you without being AR'd? Abandon it? Can they go around and delete content they don't own on land they don't belong to? How bout chat spying?

You can joke around with tin foil hat comments all you want, but you guys seem to be so worried about who buys and uses a bunch of oversized prims you've seem to ignore how they were created in the first place.
Calranthe Charlton
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 64
09-04-2006 12:06
I just had this conversation on live help

[11:41] Welcome to Live Help, where volunteers help their fellow residents with questions about Second Life. Please enter your question to begin, and then allow a few moments for available helpers to respond. Please do not close your Live Help window until you are finished. If your question is not answered, please try again later or check www.secondlife.com/support. Please note, unless the person responding has the last name Linden, LIVE HELPERS ARE NOT LINDEN STAFF MEMBERS, and answers should be considered unofficial.
[11:42] Calranthe Charlton: Hello, I have a question, I have access to some of the huge prims created long ago when it was possible, now IS it actually illegal for me to use some, see I have my own island its not connected to anyone and well im sure you can understand the benefit
[11:42] Calranthe Charlton: of me thinking of making a sky city with them with like 7 prims giant size as the base
[11:43] Calranthe Charlton: instead of 400
[11:53] Calranthe Charlton: can anyone answer this ?
[11:53] Harmony Linden: I believe that you will not be able to use them.
[11:53] Calranthe Charlton: In what way
[11:53] Harmony Linden: After the next update (or possibly the one after that).
[11:53] Harmony Linden: They cause problems in the asset server.
[11:54] Calranthe Charlton: then lindens better fix islands because this would have been an excellent way for me to lower my prim count on the $1250 super fast snail :/ sorry but it hadto be said
[11:56] Calranthe Charlton: thankyou for the answer though :/ although i know enough about dbase math to know its a false answer the virtual number system it wouldn't affect badly


Now I didn't really want to sound so annoyed and I understand the exploit chances with this BUT.

We who bought our own sims who payed $1250 and pay 200 per month, the island servers lag like hell, we pay through the nose but still haveto limit ourselves so much, when I bought a sim I thought great a race track a hangar a plane etc etc...

not if I want to be able to walk ..

These giant prims would have made it possible for us to be able to build houses, statues, landing ways, roads using 10's of prims instead of 1000's of prims which means less cpu time used.

And if your asset server is so lame you can't kick in a simple varchar or long variable from 10 - 100 - 256 etc then its time to get off the boat and grab a life jacket.

posting this on SL answes too.

Yes some could abuse these huge sims but if the way you returned prims wasn't just based on a central point and counted edges too it would stop it.

OR give it as an island option tick here if you want large prims allowed

Its simple math a big house made of 560 prims, or all the floor and 4 walls done with 1 prim or maybe fix the islands so we get what we paid for a FULL server to ourselves not 50% and able to use 15000 prims withoutt it becoming unusable.

im posting this on answers too
_____________________
Owner of Bizzare island,
Haven for Family and Friends.

Proud Master to Zsuzsanna Raven

Real life Husband to Adamantium Kinsella

All round hyper person.
Myrilla Vixen
Definitely Bloo
Join date: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 143
09-04-2006 12:08
From: Ron Overdrive
Here's my 2cents and Yiffy already knows this:

They are using a hack to create these prims. A hack that is circumventing restrictions placed within SL on prim sizes. This isn't like Temp-On-Rez'ers wich used LSL to get around restrictions, this is a client hack. External code to manipulate the SL client beyond what its suppose to be allowed. A question I feel MUST be asked is "What else?" What else can this hack bypass? Can it bypass the Godmode restrictions allowing them to actually steal content? Can they alter YOUR land settings bypassing No Push? Make it UnSafe so they can kill you without being AR'd? Abandon it? Can they go around and delete content they don't own on land they don't belong to? How bout chat spying?

You can joke around with tin foil hat comments all you want, but you guys seem to be so worried about who buys and uses a bunch of oversized prims you've seem to ignore how they were created in the first place.



1) With the god mode it appears to be checked serverside every time you try to use a linden tool. IE "Request for special powers". Every attempt to use this is logged, so even(thought I doubt it's possible) if someone managed to finagle it, the lindens would have proof of it instantly.

2) I doubt if someone really wanted to grief your land and they had edit perms they would just set push up and shoot people. It'd make more sense to set up a land pass system and then leave you to deal with the influx of people who either pay and then want their money back, or demand to know why you started charging for access. Or they could edit your ban lists. Once again though, I believe the permission to do so is checked on the sims side and as such a greifer couldn't tamper with it.

3) I doubt this one as well, though I know I have had landowners accidentally delete stuff. So be prepared for this kind of 'mistake' anyway.

4) Chat spying is incredibly easy without having to hack the client.

You seem to be really worried about this, and yes it was a rather big hole for a few weeks.. but... It was an exploit of a server-side bug that was accessible through a client hack. All the 'examples' you cited were already strictly monitored by the server and not by the client, and so they don't have anything to do with a client side hack exploiting a flaw in the server side checking.

This was a big deal, but it actually happened over a month ago(as far as I can figure) and the lindens have already closed the exploit so that no new ones can be made. They did this without having to touch the client at all. They just enforced a rule that was already in effect but moved it onto the server side.

I won't joke about conspiracies, but I do think you are over reacting in this case.
Myrilla Vixen
Definitely Bloo
Join date: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 143
09-04-2006 12:11
From: Calranthe Charlton
I just had this conversation on live help

[11:41] Welcome to Live Help, where volunteers help their fellow residents with questions about Second Life. Please enter your question to begin, and then allow a few moments for available helpers to respond. Please do not close your Live Help window until you are finished. If your question is not answered, please try again later or check www.secondlife.com/support. Please note, unless the person responding has the last name Linden, LIVE HELPERS ARE NOT LINDEN STAFF MEMBERS, and answers should be considered unofficial.
[11:42] Calranthe Charlton: Hello, I have a question, I have access to some of the huge prims created long ago when it was possible, now IS it actually illegal for me to use some, see I have my own island its not connected to anyone and well im sure you can understand the benefit
[11:42] Calranthe Charlton: of me thinking of making a sky city with them with like 7 prims giant size as the base
[11:43] Calranthe Charlton: instead of 400
[11:53] Calranthe Charlton: can anyone answer this ?
[11:53] Harmony Linden: I believe that you will not be able to use them.
[11:53] Calranthe Charlton: In what way
[11:53] Harmony Linden: After the next update (or possibly the one after that).
[11:53] Harmony Linden: They cause problems in the asset server.
[11:54] Calranthe Charlton: then lindens better fix islands because this would have been an excellent way for me to lower my prim count on the $1250 super fast snail :/ sorry but it hadto be said
[11:56] Calranthe Charlton: thankyou for the answer though :/ although i know enough about dbase math to know its a false answer the virtual number system it wouldn't affect badly


Now I didn't really want to sound so annoyed and I understand the exploit chances with this BUT.

We who bought our own sims who payed $1250 and pay 200 per month, the island servers lag like hell, we pay through the nose but still haveto limit ourselves so much, when I bought a sim I thought great a race track a hangar a plane etc etc...

not if I want to be able to walk ..

These giant prims would have made it possible for us to be able to build houses, statues, landing ways, roads using 10's of prims instead of 1000's of prims which means less cpu time used.

And if your asset server is so lame you can't kick in a simple varchar or long variable from 10 - 100 - 256 etc then its time to get off the boat and grab a life jacket.

posting this on SL answes too.

Yes some could abuse these huge sims but if the way you returned prims wasn't just based on a central point and counted edges too it would stop it.

OR give it as an island option tick here if you want large prims allowed

Its simple math a big house made of 560 prims, or all the floor and 4 walls done with 1 prim or maybe fix the islands so we get what we paid for a FULL server to ourselves not 50% and able to use 15000 prims withoutt it becoming unusable.

im posting this on answers too


There used to be larger prims, they were being abused, and they were causing problems.

At the same time, I can see how an island sim should be allowed to use them, since it is only connected to other islands and as such there is almost no chance of it getting onto the mainland(if there was some kind of on_rez check). But as it stands the lindens may or may not remove them. If you really want to sugges this thereis always the voting feature. Just make sure there isn't already a similar vote(I think there is at leasta couple)
Felix Uritsky
Prime Minister of Lupinia
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 267
09-04-2006 13:11
From: Lewis Nerd
10m is indeed an odd figure, when you think about land sold in 4m x 4m blocks

16m x 16m seems far more sensible - it's a binary digit, and would conveniently fit the land blocks too.

My guess is it's something to do with the physics side of it - but quite why when you could have a simple check that, if an item is over 10m in any direction, you can't select physics on.

But will such a simple change cause more work than Linden Lab are willing to invest? To most users, the benefit will be tremendous... but unfortunately, that's not how work is chosen.

Lewis


This was asked about in SL Answers awhile back, and the explanation was that it has to do with region crossings. The way it works now, there's a buffer of a few meters between sims, and 10m is small enough that a prim can never be in two sims at once. Larger prims, however, can be in both sims, and this would allegedly cause major problems with the servers. This also relates to why some large non-physical objects unlink when crossing a sim border.
Eddy Stryker
libsecondlife Developer
Join date: 6 Jun 2004
Posts: 353
09-04-2006 13:50
From: Felix Uritsky
This was asked about in SL Answers awhile back, and the explanation was that it has to do with region crossings. The way it works now, there's a buffer of a few meters between sims, and 10m is small enough that a prim can never be in two sims at once. Larger prims, however, can be in both sims, and this would allegedly cause major problems with the servers. This also relates to why some large non-physical objects unlink when crossing a sim border.


I can vouch for this, I created a 256x256x256 cube once and had to have a Linden come remove it. It caused a lot of really sporadic issues since it was occupying four sims at once.
_____________________
http://www.libsecondlife.org

From: someone
Evidently in the future our political skirmishes will be fought with push weapons and dancing pantless men. -- Artemis Fate
1 2 3