Depression.

you don't seem to know much about how most of the drugs work. they do NOT buoy you up. they allow you to have normal moods, good, bad, happy, etc. generally if they don't help then they won't do much, unless you get annoying side effects. allow me to assure you the systems of my mind and body work much much better ON meds. they change things certainly, but in a good way, not a bad one.

however, many professionals and depressed ppl will agree that meds alone are not the answer for many, perhaps most, people.

therapy can help one learn to avoid traps that lead to worsening mood, to rebuild psyches shattered by long illness, and to make the most of the good stuff.

i tried therapy alone for a long time because i didn't want to do drugs. well, i learned a lot but i didn't feel any better. drugs help a lot for me.. when they work. right now i'm doing both.

i think each person should investigate and decide for themselves. there are risks to everything. i don't like drs throwing meds at ppl, but i hope overall the good the professionals do is outweighing the bad. i think so.

Not to take issue with you, but you insulted me, so I'll just say:

That is a very apt description for how I feel on a heavy dose of Tylenol.

insulted how??
and what is an apt description?

and what does your reaction to tylenol, or mine for that matter have to do with antidepressants, other than there seems to be at least a few who have an odd reaction to any given med?

you claimed it messes with one's warning channels. my channels work much better when i'm on a medicine that keeps me from being depressed out of my mind. i suspect many of us who stay on them for an extended period time find it to be the case, or why would we bother? hence i don't think you know much about what they do to or for people.

There are people who absolutely do not want to be on medications, who may not like the side effects. I remember reading an article once about a woman who was on Prozac, but didn't like that it removed the highs from her life as well as the lows; she wanted back to where she felt stuff.

That was fine for her. She was happier quitting the drug, and felt that it may have helped her to get over a rough period, but she didn't need it any longer. Many people have a similar experience.

But there are others who don't want to feel what they were feeling, because it is abnormal and dysfunctional. They would rather feel more like most people do. And some of these people may never feel the normal feelings that are the birthright of every person, without intervention.

Some people find they do well with purely behavioral interventions, and with counseling to help them cope and learn new techniques. Others don't want to waste time with counseling, feel they know their own problems quite well, and really do just fine as long as they have medications. Still others find they need both in order to function most effectively.

Some have just short-term depression which responds well to treatment (either counseling or medication or both); others, for unknown reasons, suffer from it life-long and debilitatingly, and may need to have treatment for years, perhaps for life.

The good thing is that they can. These options are available for everyone, and everyone who suffers from depression can try one approach or another, or both, and if one medication doesn't work out, they can try another. For some, it will be a brief depression - perhaps occasioned by some real-life tragedy or set-back; for others it is perhaps a chemical imbalance that might never be right without pharmaceutical intervention.

Anyone who finds themselves in despair, and who wants treatment, and seeks treatment, can find treatment. And with work and treatment, most can get a pretty good handle on this debilitating disease. That is good for them and good for those who love them.

Some of the most horrible-seeming problems, feelings that cause untold grief to those who suffer from them and to their loved ones, can be effectively and sometimes almost miraculously treated. Whether other people think it is all in their minds or not, or should be able to be overcome by positive thinking or whatever, is irrelevant.

What counts is that no one should suffer needlessly. If a person has been depressed for some time to a dysfunctional degree, understand that there are physiological reasons for it (including those just in the brain), and there is treatment for it. Getting treatment can make the difference between night and day for people suffering from depression and their families.

The person will still have plenty of problems, don't worry! lol But at least they will be better equipped to handle them, once less disabled by depression, and by the depressive self-perpetuating cycle.

coco

Jeeze you sure are a dickhead.

Briana Dawson

Without my meds my life would be a living hell and I probably would be dead by now from suicide. I take a very serious chemical cocktail: Zyprexa, Zoloft, Welbutrin, Provigil. 3 of those are for depression.

Brian sounds about as smart as Tom Cruise who also said depression is not real.

Brian you should be happy that you don't need to pop pills just to fly straight.

Briana Dawson

People who have never experienced such things rarely 'get it' - I'd say that includes most of the population, even those trying to be nice.

I'm generally an up person and am only sad when I have reason to be - no clinical depression here. But I do get what are called 'panic attacks'.



These vary greatly from person to person, and triggers vary. If you have ever had one, it's unmistakable.

You really believe you are going to die on the spot, no matter how many you have survived. Chest pains, vertigo, loss of the sensation of touch - a bit like what a heart attack might be like I suppose.

Usually they last maybe... 45 minutes from the first nauseating wave to the final cold sweat. The most I can do is lie down flat - no choice about it.

Most people have no clue such things even exist.

Being told to 'buck up and act normal' during one would sort of be like cutting off someone's finger and telling them to 'act normal' - it's simply not one of the available options.

At least with what I've got, it's episodic and fairly well defined - the people with depression will often be mistaken for complainers by people with no clue.

briana:

i'm in the same boat as you. without the meds i'd be dead, or as good as. unfortunately i'm one of those where they work for a while and then tend to peter out, usually just when my life was at the point where i thought i could quit just existing and actually live. *grumble*

having trouble now, probably obvious from my continuing to post here when there's probably no good reason.

been on cocktails close to yours, not quite so bad. i have fatigue issues too that so far are unresolved, done the provigil bit too, the sleep med bit, this n that. lol

currently on cymbalta and tryptophan. the tryptophan has been an absolute godsend. got a couple f the best months i had in YEARS on it, at a much lower dose than expected. looks like i'm going to have to up it, clearly not doing so hot. man does this crap get frustrating.

good luck.

Khashai,

I will drop you a notecard which has a lot of information about depression and it's symptoms.

Do come along to one of our group meetings if you'd like to.

Kind regards

zafu

lol dang this thread dont end. so many pros on this depression thing.
my early post would have already solved this entire threads trouble, please review.
emmkthxbye.

RAWR go play eve

I doubt your thread helped anyone. I've lost friends to depression and don't take it lightly.

Zafu

no kidding-

if uplifting msgs were all it took don't you think we'd be well be now? oy vey

more insensitive jerks, very helpful.

-not a pro, i make no money off my depression. however, i sure as hell have decades of experience. seen it kill ppl and ruin careers and relationships. met ppl who have lost their homes because of it. had a cousin kill himself the week of his 16th birthday and it was a contributing factor in my brother's death. so if you think i take it a wee bit seriously, you're completely right, and i make absolutely no apologies for that fact. i just wish it didn't have to be this way.

khashai, hope you find the help you need too

Onionpencil,

We'd love to see you at any of our meetings if you wanted to come along, your experience would be valued and might help someone. None of us at the group are pros, just fellow sufferes and we make a real difference to each others lives through friendship and shared experience.

Kind regards

Zafu

I sincerely hope that those who don't believe that depression is a real, physical problem never learn first hand exactly how horribly wrong they are. Or second hand, by watching someone they care about go through it.

I first went through acute depression and anxiety two years ago this month. The horror of it is not something I ever truly grasped before that point, and its something that I seriously doubt can really be conveyed by words. But in an effort to further understanding, I keep trying anyway.

Imagine complete loss of emotional control. Then add a focus on sadness. Most people get this momentarily in times of grief: A surge of sadness and pain that overwhelms you ... regret, fear, emptiness.

Now stretch that out to days... months ... even years. Remove your ability to STOP feeling it. Remove the catharsis.

You try to do things that you know made you happy before, in a desperate attempt to relieve the pain. It becomes less and less effective the more you do it.

You can't solve the long term problems in your life which are feeding the depression because the short term obstacles have become insurmountable in your mind. Even fairly trivial problems that most people solve with five minute's thought at most can become catastrophes and life-threatening crises.

The existence of the depression itself triggers bouts of depression, in a sort of horrific feedback loop.

It becomes hard to perform the simplest of chores, like simply getting up, not because you don't care or "tell yourself" that it's not worth bothering, but because your mind is no longer listening to you when you tell yourself that it is worth it and you do care.

And you know all of that. You are aware of exactly what is happening. If you know anything about depression when you experience it, the distortion is obvious. You know perfectly well (intellectually) that what you are feeling doesn't match up with what you know, that things are off-kilter ... and you continue to feel that way nevertheless.

Death becomes appealing ... and horrifying at the same time. Even if you don't contemplate suicide, the temptation to simply lie down and stop moving is extremely strong. You know it's wrong and dangerous, but you are, in a word, overwhelmed.

I've largely recovered normality thanks to the very badly needed assistance of some friends, the removal of some of the stressors that set it off, and the drugs that are viewed so suspiciously by the cynical, but I've had occasional minor slips from time to time. I will remember the experience for the rest of my life, and I doubt I will ever be able to fully trust my own emotional self-control again.

I've had sadness before that. I've had stress before that. All of it pales in comparison. All of it.

Post me one too.

Hi All

This is a very complex subjet that is being discussed here. The mind is a very complicated thing, in fact, the most complicated thing known to man, we know more about distant stars than we do about our own brains.

It's been said here before, but the brain is part of a machine that can not function well if the rest of the bodily functions arn't. Now I've heard people talking about how depression seems to be a modern illness, and it is decoming more and more so the case. Personally I believe that the human condition has evolved over hundeds of thousands of years and has, very quickly ( in the past 100 years) taken a big turn around and people arn't looking after each other like they should. Some people have reflected on, or been effected this change of society quicker than others and they are the depressed ones(or the in tune ones). I am lucky in that I have very supportive friends which I consider as my family because I'm not really in contact with my own but, I can see the stress that it causes them and has produced some tension.

I suffer from a condition known in the UK as AvPd (Avoidance personality disorder), which basically means I hate being on my own but also dread company, and can feel alone and alienated even in the company of good friends. I'm not really into labeling people with these medical terms as I just feel it makes things worse and gives people a reason for their behavior. My condition is the result of too many recreational drugs in my youth and a messed up digestive syetem now (my body can't manufacture the needed chemicals)

I have been on medication now for 8 months and in therapy for 3 months and can't really say that anything has helped, although one thing my therapist ask was what was your grandparents diet? Confused I answered that my grandad and his forfathers were fishermen in the english channel so ate a lot of fish. she asked if I ate much seafood and I said no I don't like it much, to which she replied try eating it every day. I did and low and behold I started feeling better. What I'm trying to get at is that you are the result of your genetic situation and you are at the forefront of successful human beings, otherwise you wouldn't be here now.

To anyone who is suffering from depression out there now I sorry but I can't help you because I don't know you, talk to friends if you have them , or otherwise vent your feelings here, you never know you may make friends. Your not the only one going through this, tooo many others are!!!!

peace out

Leo

Hello all I'm a clinical counselor and there are a lot of good points being made in this thread, and some really stupid ones as well. One of the great things about Second Life is that it gives people a creative outlet, and a way to connect to others. Some aspects of this are great, such as people with social anxiety getting to try out new social skills in a "safer" environment, and people who are disabled and homebound having a social outlet. The examples of the people I know in world who have been helped by Second Life are too long to list. Supportforhealing is a great in world support group *hello Zafu* and I wish them well. Other people get in the weeds quickly with Second Life because in many respects it's easier than first life. Well, except for the inevitable DRAHMA which appears to be ramped up compared to first life radically. You can learn some great things here but you have to keep it in context. If you can't, you could be backsliding into an online addiction that gets in the way of your real life. I've been guilty of that, many of us have been...during hard times in real life it sure is a tempting escape.

In terms of the neuroscience behind depression, there are actually brain scans comparing activity in different regions of the brain of depressed persons and people who are not depressed. There are some significant, verifiable differences. That being said, I'm not a fan of pushing medication as a solution to a situational problem. Part of the trick is knowing is this a period of adjustment or is this clinical depression. I'll skip all the yadda on that.

All things considered, I'll wrap up with expecting support on the message boards is, most of the time, an exercise in futility. Funny and controversial, yes. Empathetic, erm, generally not. It's like a little petri dish in here and I wouldn't take the opinion of total strangers on your mental health too seriously.

Hello Briana

yay fiona, well put.

thank you Fiona

I think from what I understand the general consensus of the medical community is that depression is a verifiable disorder.

The medicial community would be those folks who help the majority of people live longer .. despite what we do to try and stop them.

Until they start telling us its all in our head, the opinions of some forum posters, DIY gurus and scientologists should just go in one ear and out the other.

We'll stop pressing the point on this the day when anyone can expect genuine help and care from doctors and no one is ever again tortured, brain-damaged, or imprisoned without due process for being mentally ill.

This is perhaps a seperate issue. Since the numbers of people treated out patient for Mental trouble FAR (by a huge amount) exceeds those who are committed.

And Many of those committed is at the behest of that person's family.

The point in this case being that "leave it all to the authorities" only works when you can really trust them.

hmm i didnt meant to say leave it to the authorities ,

what i mean to say is Their opinions on the matter as to whether depression is a valid disorder are much more valid than those of the nay sayers.

So much so that the nay sayers seem unqualified to speak on the topic. If many members qualified professionals were saying depression is just a frame of mind, it would have more weight as an idea.

Okay, I'll go along with that. I recognize the reality of depression.

I also recognize that anyone in the medical field is necessarily operating from training in a limited field of reference. Medical doctors will naturally see things in terms of what medical treatments they can give people for any given problem.

But human experience, especially subjective experience, covers a lot more ground than a doctor's training. The presence of antidepressant does not invalidate all the other means by which people can deal with life, some of which work much better, and many of which doctors are not remotely qualified to deal with.

Excellent input, Fiona!

coco