Stopping Developers Incentive?

How? What are some specific possibilities?

They weren't working. If it was intended merely as a reward for where people spent time they'd have been called dwell awards, not developer incentives. They were meant to be a catalyst for development of richer, more interactive attractions and destinations. They were not intended as a refund for people who buy their way onto the list with money chairs.

*points to his previous post*

You're describing There's model pretty well, I spent some time recently studying it. And I think this started a while ago in no part thanks to LindeX.

I'd be a bit torn if they went that far, I may then just pack up and move on to H'Uru-Alcugs or OSMP. *shrug* It depends on what happens to the island model.

Weight it much, much differently. Measure how much of an av's online time is spent at x locale (versus how many avs spend 5 minutes there) - aggregate that with chat output, gathering size (relative to land size), what places have "regulars", etc... There are a LOT more metrics that could have been calculated than the "five minutes and you've given them your dwell" system that we use now.

My concern is how far they'll go. They could easily make SL so expensive that nobody could really be successful running a SL business. The funny thing is, many folks will say that that IS the ideal - a sort of open-source, non-capitalistic panacea.

I'd have to ask then, what's the sense in capitalizing the capitalism out of a system? In other words, if LL charges and profits so much out of in-game businesses that it becomes impossible to be a sucessful business or a buying newbie, the balance between the in-world economy and LL's economy would be out of whack. Even if the result was a non-capitalistic world, which many feel is ideal.

IF this ends up not being a trend, then I'll fully accept being called out as predicting wrongly. Nothing wrong with that.

If this is just the beginning of many eliminations and effective price increases in SL, then I think we all have reasons to be worried, because it could be LL wringing as much cash out of this experiment as they can before they put it to rest.

Unfortunately, that model wouldn't deter camping chairs.

hm, I dont know. If you spend 99% of your time in SL on a camping chair, and 1% 'using' the money you "earned" (and boy-howdy do I mean those quotes around that word) in the chair, then I think that's out of balance too, and I'm not sure many people would like to exist in that model.

Now, if you don't give a rats ass about SL and just want to cash out your camping chair L$ to US$ to buy a few more CDs a month, then, okay, well, nothing couldn't be gamed then.

I agree.

Of course one must wonder if the places that were on DI were there because people actually liked them? I notice whenever these decisions are made there are always people who say the system was gamed. Yet, really, people spend a lot of time doing things on land that got the DI.

I am often amused by linden labs, and a number of people here in the forums, always trying to insist on what ll should be, or what they can make it be, rather than seeing what it is. Even for the free market capitalists, who would do away withanything like welfare, it can be seen that the DI refelcts the way usesr want to spend time.

No the DI has not fostered improved entertainment, yet the entertainment that has been profeered is most like what people want to do with computers-socialize and play simple games. Thus SL caters to the market. It is a nifty virtual chatroom, and every now and then you can play a little tringo with your freinds, or hang out a club, and maybe make enough money to buy a new outfit or two, or some cool hair.

What most people do not want to do is come home from work, ans setttle inot thier online job in SL to make enough money to buy stuff. Its not the DI thats the problem, its the notion that SL is a platform for a virtual economy. Somewhere along the line, SL has a platform for game development has gotten lost, apparently because its not really a good platform for game development. I don't know. But people don't flcok to money chairs because they are nifty things to do. They flock to money chairs because for most, its the easiest want to make a little cash and hang out with freinds in the process.

The market wants money chairs, not sandboxes. The DI is not SL's problem, its people loging on and gonig what do I do, and then being told "get a job, make stuff, and make more money." Well money chairs are a better alternative.

Now granted the DI might not have produced the quality of entertainment the lindens wanted, but really I look at chigcago as "quality entertainment" and look how few people went there. The DI accomplished its task admirably-ir rewarded those who created places where residents spent time. Apparently this entertainment was to lowborw for some select residents and LL.

Fourty-thousand quatloos on the hunch

Huh? Everything I mentioned was in place when I joined up this year.

We had the telehubs, which didn't work as they were designed, so they went all the way over to pretty much unrestricted P2P except in the Islands, instead of introducing it gradually as people changed their land from a default "no teleport".

We had a reputation bonus, but it was being gamed. Instead of changing it so that gaming the bonus would never actually produce a profit, they threw it out.

We have developer incentives. Instead of changing the rules so they go to people who attract paying customers instead of free riders, they're throwing that out.

I'm not surprised. Big changes ahead.

Exactly. I hope there won't be any "replacement programs". Otherwise some could get the impression that whenever something does not benefit the FIC, then one big reshuffle gets done!

for reform?

I proposed changing it so that paying and productive customers are worth more dwell than free-riders. If you're Premium you're worth 1 dwell, if you make (or buy) L$10000 a month, you're worth 1.5 dwell, if you're Ansche you're worth maybe 10 dwell... and if you're Basic with no income, you're worth 1/4 dwell or less.

Tweak the numbers as time goes on to keep a balance between mud wrestling and symphony orchestras... but if the point is for LL to reward people who create builds that make money for LL, then make paying customers more valuable.

And it kind of reflects the way the real world works, too. People who make more money spend more money on meals, gas, and other boring everyday transactions that nobody wants to have to simulate in-world... and so are effectively simulated by dwell.

But did *paying customers* spend a lot of time on money chairs? Remember, a major reason for the Linden economy is to pay for Linden Labs to keep Second Life running.

Bonafide developers are already making tons of $$$$ by selling scripts, clothes and a multitude of other items. I don't think they will be complaining too much about this.

Now, 'entertainers' - those who make a living through dwell to qualify for DI, will need to come up with a different business model, one that actually provides value to in order for consumers to pay for what they offer.

No doubt that a new breed of virtual entrepreneurs will find the right product and will be cashing in. Out with the old, in with the new. In business, innovation and evolution are a must for survival.

Not so. We sell avatars that people like, and run a locale that people like. But this is going to hurt, a lot. Large projects and areas may be -impossible- without heavy, *heavy* commercial enterprise.

Well I am not sure how you define a paying customer? If you mean by non-premuim account holder, then I am sure a lot of them did. LL makes money on tier and subscription fees to be sure. But it is only recently they realized any return on the vlue of the linden through the lindex.

if you wish to dispute the wisdom of free accounts, that is fine. But if you market it as a free service, and most of your 90,000 or so members have free accounts, then you should expect that the market will be driven by free account holders.

Besides its not like $500 linden a week is really enough money to live decently on. from what I can tell talking to people in moeny chairs, many save thier stipedn for big purchases, like skins, and use the money chir money for smaller things. And some of them sit around on money chairs becase they have friends who do.

I personally always figured that SL was setting up so many basic accounts to amass a large enough consumer base to bring adevertsing revenue inot the world.

True but then most business don't compete for discretionary income by offering free admnission to the boutique. A handfull of people will be rich selling some things, and most will simply fall to the bottom. In RL these people are just poor, in SL they are gone, playing a different game.

This sort of move would make a lot of sense.



It comes down to this: if the Company pays roughly USD 10,000 a month to 'developers'...

...what, precisely, are they getting for their annual USD 120,000?


It is not a moral question, but a financial one, and it will ultimately force their hand either way.

This confuses the hell out of me. Why? We have a system. We sell things for lindens and convert them to real money that, in turn, pays our fees. "Things" include Services such as rentals et al, hosting events, created content, and whatever else someone can do to make money inworld.

It still floors me that the platform, even as excrutiatingly limited as it is, afford me the opportunity to make enough money to cover the expense of enjoying it in the first place. Maybe the difference is that I've never owned more than the business could afford. Subsequentially, I've never relied on Linden Lab to help with my income stream at all beyond the standard services they offer everyone who plays.

But here's a thought. The first year I played SL, not wanting to work to earn the money to support my account and tier, I payed the frellin bill just like I have for every other online entertainment. Do COH or WOW give persistant players that command hordes of minions percentages off their account bill every month? I suppose the manager of my local grocery store should run over and give me a check every time I stop to talk to someone in the middle of an aisle. Maybe the local theatre should mail me a check every month for talking people to see movies.

I do understand that this crutch has been senselessly provided for a long time and I don't really fault people for taking advantage of it. But we can't rely on such things forever. The same was true of people who relied on telehubs to provide traffic. Work eventually has to stand on it's own or not at all. Estate owners have been digging around for fresh ideas for several months as the old game/mall/rental model has crumbled underneath the weight of overwhelming boredom. This move will simply tip the innovative ones to innvoate. I think they'll be pleasantly surprised what people will be willing to pay for.

Overall I think this would be for the better. (Yes, going to get mega flamed for that statement) Some sims will go under, some will remain just as they were. Hopefully this will put an end for the countless cheating "Money Chairs" that seem to be all the rage now.

Sims that truly have a fanbase, and keep the traffic high without the use of the "chair" will most likely find a new way to pay for their sims, and thus, still be around IF/when LL finds a better system to roll out.

- Sam

I disagree. We have no "money chairs" or any other sorts of gimmicks; but once DI is gone, what can we do -but- resort to something like that? (Slot machines, maybe?) I'm loathe to even suggest the idea of slot machines in Luskwood. We currently sell avatars to support the sim, and we do well there -- but we've always had pride in the fact that this is mainly due to word of mouth. Do we really want to see more flashing billboards and rotating textures in-world?

In the end I think this comes down to the fact that the folks that -did- take full and brazen advantages of these loopholes ruined it for everyone else. And now, since the standard has been set at "gimmickery", simply new, and more direct "gimmicks" will crop up.

Charging admission?

Funding support via subscription, like NPR?

I've not seen a discussion on why those wont work.

Someone who puts US$ into the Linden Economy.
Where did I say that? I said that free account holders shouldn't be worth as much dwell as paying account holders. Not that there shouldn't be free account holders.