Transgendered Avatars: An Ethics Question

Many people in SL (and in other MMPOGs) play avatars who are a sex opposite their own. I think we can all agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Also, I think we can all agree that, while some do, there is no reason for the player to reveal their true sex-it *is* their Second Life after all.

However, when these people become romantically involved in SL the question becomes at what point is the person ethically required to reveal their true sex to their partner?

I've seen at least three cases where people have gotten really close to a person believing that they are one sex only for them to turn out to be the other so I believe that there comes a point when a person is ethically compelled to reveal the truth of their sex.

What do you think?

I think along the same lines as you. All is fair up until a romantic involvement is about to happen.

i think that if you care you shouldn't be starting online romances.

I think if this is a concern for someone (whether or not the player behind an AV is male or female) that they should avoid sexual trysts online.

What she/he/it said!

(Sorry Vivianne. Couldn't resist )

geez I would think it is ethical to reveal your true gender long before you condsider someone a partner.

... and I thought this topic was going to be about actual transgendered avatars...

You think its fair?
I mean if you aren't romantic with someone... but just close friends or buds... I think they should tell you if they are male or female...

People in a meaningful relationship should be open and honest with each other. Good communication rules, lying sucks, and as long as all involved are happy and in the know—even if it's not a romantic relationship, it helps!

What's particularly bizarre is when some people assume what looks female is necessarily an analogue to a homo sapiens woman. No, not necessarily so.

This is Second Life.

I think that even if you DON'T care you shouldn't be starting online romances

but they've been doing it since beta, Eggy

For close friendships I think this would go under general dishonestly. It's not good to lie about ANYTHING to a close friend, including gender. But gender really strikes to the core of people when you are talking about romantic attraction. The potential for hurting someone is much greater.

And remember it may hurt to tell the truth first, but hopefully shortterm pain will lead to longterm healing.

That is so true and a mature adult attitude.

I think I would be more hurt if someone I truly trusted and thought was a close friend had kept something like this from me... I dunno, it certainly can be hurtful romantically or not...

I know it is to each it's own... but why would someone want to play a female avi, if they are male and not looking to betray or portray as someone they are not?
I have also heard of men doing this because there is just simply more content for women, if that is the case, why not say in the profile ... "Hey I am really a guy"?

I think when you cross the line from acquaintance to friendship, it's important to reveal the truth. Hiding it would undermine the relationship. True, you may lose a potential friend, but anyone worth having as one wouldn't care anyway.

My problem is when I meet a male Avatar and get to know them and then later on they have a sex change its tough for me to call them, she. I always do my best to treat avatars how they present themselves. Im not too concerned with who they are in RL really. It is better not to know a lot of the time. I know too many she's that used to be he's its hard to keep straight sometimes.

I don't think it's that big of a deal either way. If the person is a man pretending to be a woman, for instance, and I am their friend. The person behind the gender is still the same persno. Of course I don't do online relationships, so as far as the romantic thing goes, it's not important. But if I did, it would be only in the context of the game anyways, so I wouldn't care. If some guy built up some great image of a great lesbian that I fell in love with, to me, that would be okay. As long as he kept it in the game. I wouldn't ever want to find out and take it outside the game.

You can get hurt anyways. What if someone didn't tell you they were 400 pounds? Or what if they didn't tell you they had a physical handicap or were of a different race? I know someone who got involved with a person who was totally honest about who they were, they got together in rl and the guy just didn't like her, and they broke up.

I would love relationships that would just stay in the game. No outside details no nothing. I could be as dramatic and flairful as I want to be and never have to come down to earth. But that can't happen. Because everyone wants to take it "outside".

Sometimes it's just the person inside.

Oh by the way, OP, you aren't using the term transgender properly.

Well being a Hermaphrodite in SecondLife and in other games this question comes up alot becuase a person, dispite the idea that a fully functional dual gender person is rare, (if ever happened?) might still get caught up romanticly with me and thsoe feeligns may cross RL boundaries.

Currently I make it very apparent that I am not my true gender and that while this is obviously fantasy. I do and will treat them as a person in Out Of Character and often in character as well. When I have played the straight out opposite sex I have also said the same thing. Do I volunteer or say "Hey just to let you know I am <insert gender here>." No I don't as frankly just like furries admitting you are the opposite gender that the other player thinks you are can have very bad consequences. IF over time I learn to trust you and can see that gender is not an issue then I might be more laxed and it might slip out. If you ask me and I trust you I will tell. If I am unsure I will say "Does it really matter, I have both parts."

EDIT: Duh I started when there was no posts here. I currently in SL have a few subs that I and my Mistress share. There is no promise of RL relationships outside of friendship and caring that I would give any human being. If you are looking for a husband or wife I immediatly point you out the door or to the next closest avie and tell you that you have a better chance with them.

I don't expect a disclosure along these grounds from my friends, and almost never ask (I think I have in one or two cases, but rare). If they feel like telling me, that's cool, but I am friends with them for how they act in SL, and the way they think, communicate, create, not anything else. I simply ask that they do not lie to me.

I don't need to know all their intimate details... they are welcome to share them when THEY are comfortable.

I've thought about this myself. I have played a few different MMORPG's myself, and I've pondered the ethics and responsibilities of role-playing in general.

My first rule: SEPARATION OF CHARACTER. In the paper-RPG world, we had to separate our characters from ourselves as players. It should be the same in any on-line RPG or virtual world. I very rarely reveal my user's thoughts or feelings, unless they happen to be MY thoughts and feelings as well. I never reveal personal details about my user.

Even Second Life has a Role Playing aspect to it. That's why we log in with psuedonyms instead of using our real names in-world. The furries probably understand role-playing the best. They become their characters.


Personally, my avatar is almost as often male as it is female. I like to play with different characters and different types of costumes. So I expect to be treated as the gender that I am currently "wearing". In fact, I wish we had a way to turn off the title over our heads and have an "assumed name" when wearing a costume.

I do have a story that relates to what you commented on:

About 4 years ago, a friend of mine was in the process of getting a divorce from his wife. He was looking for something to do with his spare time, and I convinced him to get a copy of Ultima Online. The irony is that this is about the time I got too busy at work and with my social life to play much, so he ended up playing by himself.

Well, long story short, he got involved with a group in the game, and a woman in the group quickly became romantically attached to him. He would come to work and tell me stories of how he was up late talking to her on voice while they hunted together. But it quickly became apparent that she wanted "more". She actually talked about coming out to visit him and was trying to hint around about whether she should rent a hotel room or stay at his place when she came out.

Finally, she sent him a picture. The image he had of her in his head was completely different than she appeared in real life.

The thing is, after he got the picture he wasn't the least bit romantically attracted to her. (At least that's what he told me.) He didn't really want her to come out, but he kind of played along, hoping she'd lose interest in the idea.

If I recall, he was using game cards to play, and when his first game card expired, he simply didn't renew it. Don't get me wrong, he didn't just ignore her phone calls or anything; he did tell her how he felt, and was diplomatic about it. But once they "broke up", he suddenly lost interest in the game.


Now, in this situation, we have two straight people that were both playing their true gender on-line. Even in this situation, her heart was broken, and he found that he'd become more interested in hanging out with his friend on-line than actually playing the game.

The thing I take away from all this is that the "me" that people present on-line isn't the real "me" that they are in person. I've met a few female avs in SL that I'm pretty sure are "real girls" behind the keyboard, and I've met a few that I'm sure are guys posing as women. I wouldn't think of becoming romantically entangled with any of them, because I know that none of them, the RG's or the SG's (simulated girls) are anything like their avatars in person.

As far as "responsibility" goes... I think that if you are playing an avatar that is not you in some way that you owe it to yourself and to other people to not allow any sort of romantic relationship to form in the first place. If it does, you need to either come out of the closet or you need to break up "cleanly" if someone professes love for you.

If you feel you love the other person, start an alt account with your true gender. Hang out with that person for a while in your true skin, and see what happens. Completely stop using your other account, except to manage business or whatever. Eventually, if they know you well enough, they'll guess that you were the other person anyway.

I still have never understood why this is.



When did a pre-requizite of being a functioning and/or respected member of this society mean that your SL had to mirror your RL?



It all depends on whether your relationship would lead outside of SL. I think it is very stupid and naive of people to automatically assume that anything is forming outside of the online world.

Another point. People treat you very differently depending what they perceive your RL sex to be. If I play a woman in SL, I expect to be treated as such, and do what I can so that people will treat me as such. For me, it has nothing to do with being dishonest. Moreso, it has to do with being treated the way I want to be treated, and doing what I must to receive that treatment.

Case in point, I met a friend a week ago and we began talking, having a wonderful time. This was also a person who I found out lived several countries away. Now, I had my radio show that night and she decided she wanted to come, so at that point, I informed her about my RL gender, as to not surprise her when I was talking on the air. She smiles, waved, and poofed. I have not heard from her since. It left me thinking, given the idea that our "relationship" would have only existed inside SL, would it have been better to lie and keep a friend here, then be truthful about RL, and hurt both of us?



This is true, but it doesn't make the rejection hurt any less, and it makes you feel both outcast and desperate. Is having a friendship built on the truth of SL really that bad a thing?

Eh a lot of people have had successful online to real life romances. Just like in any other endeavor, you pays your money, you takes your chances. Honestly I think far too big of a deal is made about this.

In SL we do all sorts of things -- we have furrys and the wild and crazy kinky sexxors and all this stuff that we don't have irl. And that's fine! But why oh why do people expect, in a world of the unreal, for gender to be real? Its like this ONE THING is a big deal and we must be completely truthful. Sorry but no that's not the way it works. In a world where the unreal is the norm, one must expect that everything and anything can and will be unlike real life.

If you insist on keeping things real, then look in real life for those things. Otherwise get used to the fact that that hawt chick you just banged might be a guy. It happens. But hey -- its only pixels. It doesn't mean yer gay. Unless of course you actually are gay.

It doesn't... it was a question that I am trying to understand... I am sorry if you found it offensive?