The Temp-on-Rezzer Test

Did a little research on the preview grid and there were a few surprises. Basicly I tried to determine 3 things in my experiment:

1) what is the REAL max prim limit when you include temp-on-rez objects

2) How many temp on rezzers will it take to affect sim performance with non-scripted objects.

3) How many temp on rezzers will it take to affect sim performance with scripted objects.

Tools used: aubreTEC Temp-on-Rezzer loaded with 32 linked boxes to represent a vehicle made of max prims with scripts stripped, aubreTEC Temp-on-Rezzer loaded with a Dominus Shadow (version 1.0.99k, newer versions permissions don't allow scripts to be added) to represent a fully scripted vehicle. Vehicles are the most common thing next to houses people seem to use these for so it made sense to use vehicles for testing.

Area: Goguen Sandbox on Siva (script time 8ms, total frame time 9ms)

Results:

1) Yet to be deterimined, either a laison was on duty or LL instated something to destroy spawners when it reaches a specific limit. Managed to rez 11000 temp on rez objects before my rezzers started disappearing. Good to know LL is doing something about the spawners though it does kinda hinder this test.

2) It takes roughly 32 rezzers rezzing a 32 prim non-scripted object to start showing some affect on the sim jumping from 8 to 9ms. It's not noticable unless you're watching your Script Time. Time dialtion issues don't appear till script time reaches between 18 & 20ms when rezzers reach respawn time. Once you reach around 500 rezzers, Time Dialation spikes become common.

3) Effects are near immediate since the scripted vehicle contributes to the lag. If you're watching your Script Time, rezzing just 1 dominus shadow will effect the sim's script time in this empty sim. When I started this test Script Time was at 7.5ms, one shadow jumpted it up to 8.4ms. Putting in 2 jumped Script time to 9.2ms, 4 made it 11. Rezzing 8 jumped it to 15.4. Finally 16 set the script time to 21.2. At 16 temp on rezzers rezzing dominus shadows our Script Time jumped from 7.5 to 21.2. When respawned time dialtion becomes an issue for the duriation of the respawn.

What does this exacly mean? So long as you're being reasonable and responsible with your temp-on-rezzers you won't cause problems for the sim. By reasonable I mean not making everything on your land temp on rez. Temp-on-Rez homes really don't work out since they have a tendancy to "blink out" every so often during script delays caused by minor lag spikes. And by responsible I mean making sure the scripts inside your temp on rez object is low lag or has had its scripts stripped out. If you're rezzing a vehicle you're obviously not using it so strip out the scripts and save yourself headaches later on.

Why did I do this? Simple, Torely Linden stated that if and only if temp on rezzers cause sim performance issues will they take action against AR'd individuals for using them. By sharing this info I hope to make some people a little more resposible when using them so they don't end up getting banned for something as stupid as unintentionally causing alot of lag in a sim.

Side note: Don't judge the dominus shadow as a laggy vehicle from these tests. Keep in mind this was done in an empty unthrottled sim so script time can be given more to individual objects that need a little more processing power. Also this is an old version of the Dominus, newer versions have been optimized for less lag.

Short term.

All the ones I've reported have been taken down. Only one was in one sim, rezzing a 50 ish object (20 or so prim over the parcel limit). Once down, sim lag dropped ALOT.

Even one of these is bad in my experience.

True but not many are...

Just out of curiousity, does this mean I can report Clubs and Casinos and have them removed for causing too much lag and loss of sim performance? Or high textured malls? Or sandboxes?

Not being sarcastic, but where does it end?

Everything we do in SL causes lag/sim-load. I'd much rather have a few spikes than stand in a barren, completely empty sim.

There are clubs (for instance, not picking on them) that cause so much lag I can barely move. But they are one of the more popular spots for people to go to enjoy SL. Meaning that those who go there deal with the lag to have the enjoyment provided. Those who don't like the lag simply leave.

If you live in an area where a neighbor is causing you lag with anything (not just rezzers) feel free to AR it if that neighbor will not discuss a reasonable solution with you. That's your right. However, just traveling through SL and ARing anything you don't like sounds like harrassment and griefing to me. How do you know everyone who owns land in that sim isn't in agreement on what is "reasonable system performance"?

It has been asked to use rezzers responibly and that is a very good suggestion. Completely bogging a sim, or even a significant laod, is unneeded and foolish.

I would ask that AR's be used responsibly as well. I know if I get AR'd, I'll be filing a report agaisnt that person (through LL since I won't know who did it) for harrassment. On the same grounds; That my enjoyment of SL is being adversly affected by the behavior of the one sending ARs without need.

Basically, be a nice to those who may be using rezzers as you want them to be to you. Perhaps stop by and ask about them and how they are being used. Maybe that person didn't see the problem and can fix it, remove it, or explain a special circumstance (perhaps they are only using them for 1 day to have a party with friends, for example).

Let's not turn AR's into a "griefing tool" as well when a little thought and curtosy on -both- sides can do far more.

~Jessy

I'm rather sure the Lindens would speak to the land owner in question. One case was important in particular: He was on group land (one of my friends group land, the offender was not a member) and was using temp on rez to keep his home there despite the autoreturn. If that isn't a valid report, please do enlighten me.

No that is a valid reason, however Jonas, you have stated you'd abuse report regardless the reason and who's using them on SLx without talking to the owner. If its my land and I've taken the steps to reduce the lag caused by my temp-on-rezzer you have no reason to abuse report me unless there is a signifigant performance decrease in the sim and I'm unwilling to fix the issue if, and truely if, my rezzer is the cause of the lag.

As I've tested, temp-on-rezzing scripted objects such as vehicles will cause signifigantly more lag then temp-on-rezzing non-scripted objects. Maybe that other object you claimed was causing "ALOT of lag" was scripted with badly written scripts. Also keep in mind, realtively new empty sims will also be affected rather quickly by the entry of any scripted object.

And I agree with Jessica on this, by doing "drive by" Abuse Reports you're essencially reducing the AR tool to a griefer tool and taking away the lindens from more important issues such as actual griefers nuking entire sims and/or trying to crash the grid.

This isn't rocket science: Temp on rezers are deliberatly circumventing a specificly designed restriction in the game. There is no restriction put on up to a certain amount of people gathering in one spot, there IS a limit in you having 800 prims of furniture on a 500 prim lot.

There is no slipery slope here, no fine line, no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise.

Causing lag, however asshatish, isn't deliberatly trying to get around a specificly designed limitation in the game. Temp on rezzers are. Repeating what I said to Jessica:

There is no slipery slope here, no fine line, no matter how much you try to pretend otherwise.

Giving carte blanche to temp-on-rez is pretty dangerous.

The problem is *far* more complex than it may first seem.

If you temp-on-rez a lot of highly textured objects, there are situations where you will be cruising for a world of hurt - so bad that even if you *remove* the object the sim performance will thrash for hours or days.


Even our NORMAL restrictions allow for horrific lag, if fully used. Temp-on-rez can put sim performance into the nether regions of useless hell.

Great tool to put into the hands of clueless noobs, mmm?

Actually, there is a restriction on people gathering in a certain spot. 40 per sim or some-such (never paid that much attention to that aspect).

It is a "fine line" or grey area "no matter how much YOU try tp pretend otherwise". If it wasn't, LL would say "No. Stop." to everyone. Instead the offical rulling (in Answers, not looking for a link) is that it is only an issue IF it "adversly affects sim performance". Sounds like a "fine line" to me.

Limitations of any system are only there until someone finds a better way. Not to break rules, but to find new ways to do things. Otherwise the status quo remains and society stagnates. A complete opposite of the intent of VR's in general and SL in particular.

I point to past posts about people complaining about the lag of AO's and how they adversely affected sim performance. They're still around and some are still laggy, but most ahve smoothed out with better scripting and understanding of the system. This is just another avenue of intellectual gain. There will be rough spots, and it may not work. It might also be the opening for a whole new aspect of SL.

While not being "rocket science", it IS a continuous learning science, and is exact by no means. The Residents and LL both learn by trial and error. The "Your World. Your Imagination" is one of the best wordings I can think of for this. Your imagination is constantly changing, growing, and evolving. With everything we learn, we change. So does our world.

Jonas, yes, in that instance, I whole-heartedly agree that needed ARed. I'd be interesting in how he kept the rezzer from being auto-returned though. Sounds like something other than just TORing is going on there. You can't TOR off of auto-return land as the rezzer will get returned. Or should. I'd look closer at that, or ask a Linden Grid Monkey to look into that.

~Jessy

Anything is dangerous if used incorrectly.

Weapons, vehicles, high-rez textures, lots of different scripts. Keeping them from use isn't the answer. Teaching those New Citizens about SL is.

I routinely hand out NCI Landmarks to Newcommers. As well as sending them to the Ivory Tower and areas to learn to script if they show an intrest. SL is expansive and overweleming to those who jsut arrived.

Saying something needs romoved is a last resort. Work with it. Fix it. Change it. Make it better. *shrugs* Otherwise you might as well take out all the LSL and ability to build period and go play a game.

~Jessy

Lurking about, going through the person's objects on their land then ARing the person who may not know they are doing anything remotely wrong is nasty, petty and creepy.

But that's SL for you!

They set the tem rezzer istelf on a small plot owned by another right next door, then offset the rez. Apparently saw the 200 or so extra prims on the group land as a buffet.

The same can be said about LSL, mess up in one line of code and boom.. there goes the sim. Yet we still promote education in proper use of LSL. Also remember, Holovendors are capable of doing the same thing being temp on rezzers themselves and they're all over SL, yet not one soul complains about them.

Temp-On-Rez was made to get around prim limits, but itself is limited. Its not practical to make a temp-on-rez home because it'll occasionally "blink out" of existance before respawning. Making everything on your land temp-on-rez isn't a bright idea either because having multipul temp-on-rezzers spawning at once is more likely to cause lag.

While it is better to own more land, buying another 512m2 when you only needed 10 more prims isn't very practical. It also doesn't help if you live in a sim where all the land has been bought up and nothing is for sale or the only plots for sale greatly exceed what you need/afford. Some people even before the temp-on-rezzers came onto the scene have had issues rezzing low prim objects when they still had enough prims left over.

It might also help to note my personality. I can be an asshole. I also tend to get upset at things than caused a sim to crash I was in. That crash gutted my inventory. It was caused by temp rezzers.

hud: 1600
animations: over 1500 worth
gestures: haven't even looked through to tally yet
clothes: uncountable, many outfits missing major pieces, some missing entirely
my own builds: I had to get backup copies from my display models. Backup work on several projects killed
attachments (aside form hud): easily 3k

Yeah you can say I want to smack temp rezzers.

I contacted people got a few things back. Waiting on animations. HuD was a no.

Jonas - it may not work, but worth a try: I've heard of this sort of thing happening to other folks (losing inventory after a crash).

Try logging out, manually deleting your entire Second Life cache directory, then logging back in. Sometimes that simple action has amazing results (or not)

definately try it after this event I'm doing

originally it showed even less than I have now, but I relogged..

Right, and if you found a way around that (there used to be a way), I would abuse report you just as readily.

You are ABUSEing the system.

Not being an asshole, jsut human. I've lost things in grid crashes (thankfully replaced) so can understand that. And I'm not out to pick on you, Jonas, but you actually come back with intelligent converse on this subject, not jsut yelling and screaming. Wether LL keeps TOR or not is up to them, all we can do here is discuss it and think up ideas/solutions.comprimises to make our world better.

More than willing to do that with anyone who wants to have an adult conversation. ^.^

Also available to rant/rave, but expect it returned exponetially. *grins*

~Jessy :: Able to go from 0-Bitch in .02 seconds ^.~

Read my whole posts, not snippets, then reply.

If you don't wish to help advance SL, that's your right. Please respect others who wish to find better ways to do things.

~Jessy

I read it. That was the only thing worth responding to. After that, your point became meaningless rationalizing.



I'm trying to keep people from getting a legitimate tool for your so-called "advancement" from being taken away from the people who actually use it for what it's meant for.

So you're attempting to restrict every other Resident for what you concider the "proper" use of TOR, reguardless of what LL's stance is on the subject, even though they are the one to create it in the first place?

Just to clarify, since I might be confused by my "meaningless rationalizing".

~Jessy

Nice friendly attitude! Why don't you go for the people selling the thing and cashing in, instead of the little guy on 512 plot who is using it? I suppose it is easier to intimidate and scare the lttle guy with threats.

The discussion of temp rezzing, like so many countless other threads seems to be justified as acceptable because it's technically possible, no matter how selfish or amoral.

It's no different to any of the other issues defended in this manner.

Found a way round the land auction to get it for free ?
Feel it's ok to make money reselling free items that their creator intended to be free ?
Found a way around the prim limits LL imposes on us for their own technical reasons ?

We have a choice about being in SL unlike RL, there is even less justification for it. Abide by the rules and the will of the community or leave, don't make your own based on a feeble and amoral reinterpretation of the rules and then seek to justify them here.