Taking the fun out of designing

That's why it is such a tremendous value, really. They could easily charge much, much more.

"Virtual stuff" isn't real? I guess the money I charge for the websites I design and those willing to pay for something they can "never touch" isn't real, either. I guess the money you pay to access the internet, which is ALL virtual, is deluded as well?

Color me confused.

It's actually a pretty sweet deal. I do 15+ hours a week of product development for three months, have a great time doing it, sharpen my skills, then just collect the cash for a few months after that, making incremental improvements along the way.

Geezz... I did not say the money is not real... If you are willing to pay real money for some virtual stuf that has only value in a virtual world, that's your affair. But dont try to tell me that virtual stuff has reality, as the proverbial brick on the head... In SL, if a brick fall on my AV's head, I won't feel a thing... look outside the monitor screen.

Geezz... I did not say the money is not real... If you are willing to pay real money for some virtual stuf that has only value in a virtual world, that's your affair. But dont try to tell me that virtual stuff has reality, as the proverbial brick on the head... In SL, if a brick fall on my AV's head, I won't feel a thing... look outside the monitor screen.

That is the most satisfying aspect of doing this would be, to myself, if I did this. Developing skills, trying out ideas and just having fun. Because the value of the work, per hour, isn't remotely close to the price charged in SL. Those who claim that people are here "just for the money" don't understand how much a talented designer's time is really worth, per hour of work. I would only do it if I truly loved making things in SL FIRST and the money would be a side benefit. Not when I could charge $25-$50 dollars an hour for my time in RL for similar work.

Obviously, there are people here that are not real world designers or programmers and probably discovered their talent through the game. I saw the same thing happen with the Sims, people realized they had real creative gifts that they weren't aware of and the game gave them the opportunity to develop skills and share their work with others. But the value of that work is still the same as any novice designer at a certain point, when they get good enough.

Honestly, no one who creates and sells their work for in SL could ever be described as anything remotely close to "greedy". I can truly appreciate the time and talent and hard work that went into creating the amazing variety of clothing and objects and skins and such and what I have paid for them is practically for free, given the effort involved. You simply don't appreciate what those skills and time are worth in real world dollars. You are getting for pennies what could honestly be charged for $25 and up given the work. If all they were interested in was money, they could easily take the skills they have outside of SL and charge REAL value for them. Instead you are getting it for next to nothing and complain.

This is the last comment I'm going to make for now, I have to go.

I think the problem here is that people come into SL and see all this cool stuff all over the place and think that this is the "content" that they are entitiled to. The fact is, Linden Labs did not create or supply this content, the other residents did, as they do ALL the content in SL. People look at this as any other game, and think, "why shouldn't I easily be able to acess all the content I see? It isn't fair."

SL is like real life in that respect. You are surrounded by things that you want and may not be able to afford. You have to either earn the money to buy them or pay for them with the real money you have earned. They are not "game content" provided for you by Linden, they are real world work created by real world people and they have a right to charge whatever they believe their time and work and talent is worth.

And if you don't like it, then use what Linden Labs is really providing you with, the platform to create it YOURSELF.

Actually, they do. They buy what they can afford, and "art" is a relative term. The kind of art or creativity most people pay for mainly falls under the catatgory of design, such as clothing, furniture, cars and homes etc. People buy the designs that they a) enjoy and b) can afford.

If people didn't care about their surroundings, and whether they were pleasant and beautiful, we would all be living in wood shacks with the same ugly, utilitarian furniture. We would all be wearing the same bland utilitarian clothing.

Everything in your home was bought not just for utility, but also because it was aesthetically pleasing to you. Creativity isn't only expressed by creating something, it is the ability to appreciate and be inspired by the creativity of others.

It seems to me that you do not understand or appreciate artistic expression or value those who create, or are simply jealous of those who do have those gifts.

I am a a RL designer. I also have fine art training. When I was young, however, I dreamed of becoming a novelist. Sadly, I learned that I couldn't write a decent story to save my life, heh. From your perspective, I suppose I should never read another novel, because I don't have that gift myself, or think they should give me their work for free, lol.

I can truly appreciate the time and talent and hard work that went into creating the amazing variety of clothing and objects and skins and such and what I have paid for them is practically for free, given the effort involved. You simply don't appreciate what those skills and time are worth in real world dollars. You are getting for pennies what could honestly be charged for $25 and up given the work.

Yumi, your problem seems to be with the platform of SL itself. That is all it is, a platform for people to create stuff in and sell it, if they wish. It isn't a game like WoW, were the content is provided for you. You either make the content yourself or buy it or take freebies.

If the joy of simply creating something you made yourself, regardless of whether or not it is the "best" or someone else is "better" isn't satisfying to you, or you don't want to create things because you don't think it is good enough, and additionally don't want to pay for the work of others, then really, why are you in SL?

If that makes you feel insecure in comparison to others or you think you should get content without having to pay others what they ask, then maybe another game would be a better choice. That isn't what SL is about and not what they ever said it was.

Again, it's not relevant to me personally. So here is my question to you: what do you think is the average personality of a person who would buy L$ to participate in SL with? Not counting people who buy it to get a business started with the goal of earning it back later, but the people who just buy L$. Bear in mind that these will be newly-rezzed people who are arriving with no stipend, no addiction, and no particular attachment to the metaverse concept beyond what joy it can offer them.

I have 4 kids and many very real expenses, just as everyone here not living with their parents most definitely also has...rent, food, car payments, utilities, etc. These are real expenses in the real world, and designing content for SL is my real life job. This job pays for those things.

When I first came into SL a few weeks ago, I very quickly wound up buying lindens so I could purchase the content I wanted. I wasn't paying anything to access SL. It was free. I was even given some spending money. I could have just taken advantage of the free content, of which there is PLENTY, and created things for myself. But I wasn't paying a dime, so it was worth it to me to spend some money to buy myself some nice clothes and a decent skin and learn how to make things later. And even if I became an awesome clothing designer or whatever, I would still buy the work of others. Because I like and appreciate their work and would enjoy wearing their creations, just like real life. Or because they were creating things I didn't and wanted to have.

What do you think people have a right to expect from a completley free game/platform? I can't think of many games that allow total access for free and give you a) all this free quality content and b) the ability to create and script on a 3d platform in real time. I've tried some others and none come close or charge you even more to buy content.

A platform like SL attracts two kinds of people. The creatives, who are drawn to the ability to create and script in a virtual 3d environment, and those who simply enjoy the freedom and community of SL and further, enjoy the content created by the others.

SL will find it's own market, long term. It may remain a niche market, but I think it will always be attractive to creative people.

But when I see people whining about how the linden is spiraling out of control or how tough their life is -- well I just kind of shrug and move on and yes I do think you are being greedy. For the reasons mentioned above. Doesn't mean I don't buy your stuff. But then again, I can afford to buy $L. Not all can.

Thank you for this.

I am an artist and writer who recently quit my previous job at a well known game company where I did texture work and modelling for an upcoming MMORPG in order to devote myself completely to designing content for SL.

SL is now my REAL job. This is my only income now, and I dare say I didn't switch from my previous job to this one for the money. I did it because I love SL and the people here that much, and enjoy creating content for them enough to take a major pay cut to do this full time.

I have 4 kids and many very real expenses, just as everyone here not living with their parents most definitely also has...rent, food, car payments, utilities, etc. These are real expenses in the real world, and designing content for SL is my real life job. This job pays for those things.

May people make their fulltime living from designing entertainment for other people. Doesn't matter that this is just a hobby or a game to some of you...it is also a business and a real job for many, just the same as those who make movies, record music, or work in an auto-plant. If it wasn't a business...none of you would be here now in SL, because last I heard LL was not a charity...they exist to make money like every business that everyone here works for.

LL does not design content. They make this very clear. Its up to people like me, who make this our job, as well as those who do it as a hobby to make this "game" within the platform that LL designs. Without content providers of all types...SL would likely not exist at all now.

I get very tired of hearing some people complain about anyone for whom designing content for SL is our real life and full time job. We are called greedy (which is as far from the truth as you can get for most of us), opportunistic, and many worse things. Some people constantly harp about us "cashing out" as if getting paid to do work was somehow something they don't do in real life. Do they not get a paycheck for their real life work? How is that not "cashing out" when it comes to the company they work for? Its not one bit different than me working here in SL. Its a double standard that is rife with hyposcrisy and a rather uninformed and unrealistic view of reality.

My prices are very low compared to others doing similar quality work. I am a professional artist, a professional game texture and model designer, and what I get paid here is pennies on the dollar to what I used to make. My work is very reasonable, and I have never once raised prices. But...do not joke yourself by thinking it doesn't hurt my real life income to not do so. I refuse to raise prices at this time. I take less money and I have less real dollars to spend on myself and my kids because of it. I do it because I am in SL for the long haul. I love this place and I love the people. I love my work here. If anything...I am far MORE invested in LL and SL than those who pride themselves on not "cashing out"...because while its just a fun hobby for them...it my living for me. And one I made a very concious choice to accept.

I am very happy that those who constantly criticize me and other fulltime designers of content for SL enjoy their hobby here. I hope they stay for a long time. But I would hope that at some point they might wake up to realize that "games" don't pop up from thin air, and run for free. Your hobby is a real business for many people...those at LL and those like me. What I do now is the same stuff I did at the big game company I left. Just now I get even less money, less respect, and less job security. But I love the work and this place enough I am willing to accept all that. But greedy? LOL...

*shakes her head and wanders off*

Business proprietors who expect to get by on the generosity of customers instead of on the value of their products and the robustness of their business model need to stfu or gtfo. Consumers who expect the moon and the stars without paying anyone anything also need to stfu or gtfo.

It's very simple. I have something that's valuable to you. You have something that's valuable to me. If the value is equal, we will exchange values and both be happier.

If not, not.

The conversation ends there. I don't expect charity as a mechanism of my model of business. I don't need generosity or subsidy in order to attain my success metrics. My quality and value of work speak and earn for themselves.

This is all very nice Zoe but we aren't under any obligation to buy your stuff if you raise your prices. And I'm sure there's more than one person reading this who wishes they could quit their job to go work in SL full time too. If you didn't consider the fact that the economy was run and created by a company of game designers who had merely one recently-hired (and even more recently fired) economist then I'm sorry. But you may have to accept that you invested in a bad product -- the product being the overall economy and not the platform itself.

You quit to do something you love. That's fantastic. I applaud you. I think the world of people who do things like that. I recently had a friend quit his job, sell his house, and uproot his entire life to go play music for a living. That's the bomb y'know. Every person's dream and here he is doing it. Just like you.

But y'know, he doesn't whine 24-7 when the bar doesn't fill and the band's cut of the door take is less than usual. I'm not saying you do -- but the cacophony of designers whining about the economy and insisting our stipends get cut is making some of us a bit testy. You took a risk. That's more than groovy. But its not called a risk because you can count on a regular paycheck with benefits. You (and every other designer out there) will have to accept that things like this are going to happen and you may have to come up with a different business model to continue to make the same profits you were used to making.

I am the first one to admit that I am a buildoholic, but when I find prices for clothing super low, it takes the fun out of designing. I applaud those of you who are keeping your prices fair. I refuse to create an item that has to be sold outlandishly cheap. Ok, sure, maybe it would be a couple of dollars in US currency (and sometimes less) but every little thing adds up. I check the forums on an obsessively regular basis on new releases and I jaunt all around SL to see all these new items. But I will leave my store in disgust and not put out my new creations when I find the unfair prices. Again, thank you those of you shoppers who are paying fair prices. I hope you appreciate my creative efforts as much as I appreciate your business . Uggg at the rest of the designers selling at unfair prices. LOL Ok I had my moan, hopefully these designers will hear my cries and raise their prices to be designer friendly.

I am the first one to admit that I am a buildoholic, but when I find prices for clothing super low, it takes the fun out of designing. I applaud those of you who are keeping your prices fair. I refuse to create an item that has to be sold outlandishly cheap. Ok, sure, maybe it would be a couple of dollars in US currency (and sometimes less) but every little thing adds up. I check the forums on an obsessively regular basis on new releases and I jaunt all around SL to see all these new items. But I will leave my store in disgust and not put out my new creations when I find the unfair prices. Again, thank you those of you shoppers who are paying fair prices. I hope you appreciate my creative efforts as much as I appreciate your business . Uggg at the rest of the designers selling at unfair prices. LOL Ok I had my moan, hopefully these designers will hear my cries and raise their prices to be designer friendly.

So, I really have no clue why you are addressing these comments about raising prices and complaining about markets to me as they have zero bearing on my message, post, or anything I said. Nor have I ever done either. I just get tired of being demonized when I am here making my living at this not because of a desire for money or out of greed...but the exact opposite. Because I love this game and its people, and am happy to actually lose much of my income to be able to spend more time here.

Nonna Hedges' dresses at $1000L each are definitely "designer friendly" but not "user friendly".

I'll happily pay for something that looks good. If it doesn't, I'm not paying for it no matter how hot the designer thinks they are.

um, cause its in a thread where content providers are advocating rising prices and upset about the market. so you know like... consider the context????