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I have been Banned! Anyone know why? |
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Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
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08-26-2006 16:59
So even if the person admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games, you want him back? I'm sorry if I just don't understand your thinking. Of course! If Hox is sorry and lots of people like him, who cares if he ripped off a bunch of casinos and gamblers. They are evil anyway.  _____________________
go to Nocturnal Threads
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-26-2006 19:27
I know of someone that got temporary banned for saying there was a bug in the system at the forums. :bounce: _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-26-2006 19:39
So even if the person admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games, you want him back? I'm sorry if I just don't understand your thinking.  /108/d7/77230/1.html _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-26-2006 19:46
No, that's not what I'm saying, and LL has the final call in any case. I'm talking about any situation which seems to be unfair (such as the hair person's), or in which there may be mitigating circumstances. You know, there CAN be mitigating circumstances, even in a case where someone admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games a year ago. (Though I'm not sure what, if anything, could justify that.) But LL has to first listen to even hear them. In a reasonable society, abuse-manager isn't just a robot trashcan, but is human and has ears, and is willing to listen. Otherwise, why bother even having it? In the case of SL, it would often seem that one person can apparently do nothing about their own case, even if right is totally on their side. The person just . . . never hears back. And there's nothing they can do, even if the Lindens themselves say they don't even know what the person did wrong. So I'm saying that if it takes a number of people to advocate for a person, then I'm for them doing that. As to the particular facts of a particular case, I'm not passing judgment. I'm just saying it is important in a just society that a case can at least be heard; for a person to be able to even MAKE a defense. And that in the case of SL, that apparently takes numbers of people. So I'm for people doing that, when they feel moved to do so. And the Lindens will listen when they are convinced there has been an injustice. It's the convincing them that sometimes takes a village! coco :qft: without bothering with the details of this particular case, the system of justice (as well as many other things) is bugged at best and deeply flawed at worse there can be no justice without clearly set bounderies... nor a system that neither tells you for what exactly you have been charged nor give you any right whatsoever to appeal (besides the whim of the almighty love machine, that is) props when props are due, coco, well said (a lil tooo :coco: for my personal taste, but your message was received and appeciated... by some of us at least _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Flavian Molinari
Broadly Offensive Content
Join date: 1 Aug 2004
Posts: 662
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08-26-2006 19:51
So when is LL going to sell their version of Boogie?
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-26-2006 20:21
So when is LL going to sell their version of Boogie? :notworthy: _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Ashen Stygian
@-'-,---
Join date: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 243
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08-27-2006 02:00
So even if the person admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games, you want him back? I'm sorry if I just don't understand your thinking. Hey aren't you the dude that hacked JEVN? _____________________
Chaos may not be the safest sim to attempt to grief.... It's a little like going to an insane asylum to pick a fight.  |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-27-2006 03:40
Hey aren't you the dude that hacked JEVN? no, he is the guy who purchased the JEVN hack tool, used it to steal stuff from venders, then tried to blackmail the guy who sold it to him into giving him the money back this is a very huge difference then he reported a cornfield which i could not verify in my last few hundred bannings _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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08-27-2006 14:05
Right, so he got a permanent ban for stealing money from people, then snuck back on, and now LL have found out that he snuck back on and have banned him, and people want him back?
Is he a charming gentleman thief, like Raffles, or George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven? |
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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08-27-2006 14:44
As I understand it, the storage of IP and the Hardware ID are semi-recent changes. They were not in place a year ago when the listening event was supposed to have occurred. Or, were they? The hardware profile thing is new - they have been able to ban by IP for a long time, probably since inception as that is a pretty basic concept. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more.  |
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Yo Brewster
Registered User
Join date: 1 Feb 2006
Posts: 139
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08-27-2006 15:37
Here's my 2 cents --- nomatter what somebody did - LL should ALWAYS explain them why their account was banned. Shouldn't somebody at least have the right to defend themselves?
About being able to contact LL --- you're right - it's VERY hard to get a response back from LL sometimes. A few weeks ago my wife tried to purchase L$5000 and for some reason the money didn't appear on her account so she tried again and again. I told her to log off and log back on and guess what ... lol ... yep, she was L$15000 richer. She complained to LL and requested a refund, but never received a response back! Yo _____________________
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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08-27-2006 15:43
Wow, thanks Mulch. I just read the entire JEVN hack thread. I took along time, but what fun, and what lessons !
It leaves many questions though, doesn't it , like any good novel... 1. Why is Nimrod Yaffle still in the game ? And what is he doing posting here like an innocent accuser, instead of keeping as quiet as he can ? 2. Did the JEVN server system and it's successors get what it so richly deserved - total and permanent rejection by the community ? Unbelievable to sell to trusting clients a system so absolutely devoid of security that it could be hacked by almost any scripter in a few minutes ! To know for weeks and not warn everyone. 3. Have we learned from this ? By which I mean, when buying something we will trust with our money, is there yet any way we can find one which is proven trustworthy ? Open source maybe, and verified safe by two or three of our best respected and trustworthy experts ? Or could a new JEVN take us all for a ride again ? |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 15:44
no, he is the guy who purchased the JEVN hack tool, used it to steal stuff from venders, then tried to blackmail the guy who sold it to him into giving him the money back this is a very huge difference then he reported a cornfield which i could not verify in my last few hundred bannings Oh my, I'm proud of you! Every seems to get the story wrong, but you got it right. Now where's my Sally Bitchtits? P.S. It could be a hoax, it might not be. If it was, LL played along and it was the biggest hoax in Sl history. If not, then... we're still in the same spot today. _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 15:47
Wow, thanks Mulch. I just read the entire JEVN hack thread. I took along time, but what fun, and what lessons ! It leaves many questions though, doesn't it , like any good novel... 1. Why is Nimrod Yaffle still in the game ? And what is he doing posting here like an innocent accuser, instead of keeping as quiet as he can ? 2. Did the JEVN server system and it's successors get what it so richly deserved - total and permanent rejection by the community ? Unbelievable to sell to trusting clients a system so absolutely devoid of security that it could be hacked by almost any scripter in a few minutes ! To know for weeks and not warn everyone. 3. Have we learned from this ? By which I mean, when buying something we will trust with our money, is there yet any way we can find one which is proven trustworthy ? Open source maybe, and verified safe by two or three of our best respected and trustworthy experts ? Or could a new JEVN take us all for a ride again ? 1. A. I am still in-game because I did not steal money. I gave back(/paid back, no transfer items) what I took anyways. B. Because I admitted my guilt, and I am guilty. Exploiting a bug in a script is not against the TOS, I don't even know why I was punished to be honest. Someone exploited a bug in one of my scripts and stole 20k from me, yet they were not punished and I never got anything back. Just another point to the unfairly punishments list. 2. No, they added more secuity, I even use the JEVN system myself. 3. GL with that, already tried with gambling games and failed horribly. _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-27-2006 15:53
P.S. It could be a hoax, it might not be. If it was, LL played along and it was the biggest hoax in Sl history. If not, then... we're still in the same spot today. wow implicating LL in the attempted blackmail and destruction of a resident created business very shrewd move on your part didnt see that one coming _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 15:59
wow implicating LL in the attempted blackmail and destruction of a resident created business very shrewd move on your part didnt see that one coming I was talking about all those corn stalks. _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 15:59
wow implicating LL in the...destruction of a resident created business You mean like.. GOM, right? _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-27-2006 16:12
1. A. I am still in-game because I did not steal money. I gave back(/paid back, no transfer items) what I took anyways. Ok, so you are saying there is a difference in stealing phoney objects than there is stealing phoney money? niether the money nor objects have any real world worth according to LL, so please elaborate on the big difference B. Because I admitted my guilt, and I am guilty. apparently the OP did as well, and offered to make ammends, financial ammends, which is far more than you did (oh yeah, you blackmailed the creater of the object after you used it for your own gain, that is a much better decision... glad to still have you in the community, champ!) and to this you respond with So even if the person admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games, you want him back? I'm sorry if I just don't understand your thinking. i still dont see the difference... we will come back to that, lets go on and pick some nits Exploiting a bug in a script is not against the TOS, is listening on other channels? not sure i see the difference quite yet... I don't even know why I was punished to be honest. hmmm... a familiar theme Someone exploited a bug in one of my scripts and stole 20k from me, yet they were not punished and I never got anything back. Just another point to the unfairly punishments list. damn that karma thing is a bitch so again, maybe i am super dense break it down into real small words for me why is what you did so different than what the OP claims to have done from any legal or moral perspective? And why did you deserve forgiveness when the OP does not? And does LL realize that this story (along with the old JEVN post, and a boatload of other quagmires such as the forums) is creating even more negative feelings and general unease with the platform, which is very dangerous at such a critical point of instability in the SL platform/community? _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 16:30
why is what you did so different than what the OP claims to have done from any legal or moral perspective? And why did you deserve forgiveness when the OP does not? Please point me to where I say I was banned from LL, and made another account. _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-27-2006 16:38
Please point me to where I say I was banned from LL, and made another account. is this an answer or a question? and if it is an answer why weren't you banned for life as well for, by your own silent acknowledgement of the similarities, essentially the same offense ? (which i think is the more important question LL needs to address right about now) and how should the "community" feel about you compared to the OP? _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 16:42
is this an answer or a question? and if it is an answer why weren't you banned for life as well for, by your own silent acknowledgement of the similarities, essentially the same offense ? (which i think is the more important question LL needs to address right about now) and how should the "community" feel about you compared to the OP? 1. I guess you don't know about LLs double standards. 2. Money IS different than objects. Even if it is "fake," there is still a difference. 3. Are you asking me or LL why I wasn't banned or life? and how should the "community" feel about you compared to the OP? People I meet usually hate me or love me... Right now I have a good feeling I know how you feel. _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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08-27-2006 16:57
People I meet usually hate me or love me... Right now I have a good feeling I know how you feel. actually niether i am indifferent to you personally, but your situation and the OPs situation are an example of a bad system... the fact that you decided to morally justify your actions compared to the OP just made you a suitable example and you can discuss the difference between phoney money and phoney objects all you want, but there is no moral defense that makes a difference (especially combined with blackmail), and legally, the TOS clearly states money and objects have the same status: no legal value so the question still stands, why would LL choose to have seperate punishments for more or less the same offense? _____________________
I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours.
http://forums.secondcitizen.com/ |
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 17:02
actually niether i am indifferent to you personally, but your situation and the OPs situation are an example of a bad system... the fact that you decided to morally justify your actions compared to the OP just made you a suitable example [snip] so the question still stands, why would LL choose to have seperate punishments for more or less the same offense? I completely agree with you on this actually (P.S. we are getting off topic with this thread). I remember a thread in the sandbox that had a link to artistic nude photographs. That thread was locked and the link was removed. In another thread someone made a video of a floppy (flexi) penis and linked it to the forums. They let that thread stay but told the person they should include a warning that it was mature. I asked about the different punishments for the same crime, and Robin Linden said that it depended on the circumstances. I don't think that's the (complete) truth, I think it's different Linden's interpretation of the TOS. Edit: (To add even more to the offtopicness: /139/ee/102455/1.html) _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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08-27-2006 17:11
Oh my, I'm proud of you! Every seems to get the story wrong, but you got it right. Now where's my Sally Bitchtits? P.S. It could be a hoax, it might not be. If it was, LL played along and it was the biggest hoax in Sl history. If not, then... we're still in the same spot today. Well I don't think this is cute, AND I don't think it is cute for LL to perpetrate a hoax not only among all of its own residents, but allow the media to perpetrate it as well. That makes it all a lie, and also a lie to the media. If not, then you yourself are perpetuating the notion that LL lied to everyone. coco _____________________
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nimrod Yaffle
Cavemen are people too...
Join date: 15 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,146
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08-27-2006 17:18
Well I don't think this is cute, AND I don't think it is cute for LL to perpetrate a hoax not only among all of its own residents, but allow the media to perpetrate it as well. That makes it all a lie, and also a lie to the media. If not, then you yourself are perpetuating the notion that LL lied to everyone. coco I said it was real, LL said it was real. He said he still was not sure, so I was just stating what it would have taken for it to still not be real. Think what you want. Aren't you that person that broke a rule, then requested to be sent to the cornfield, then were angry because you weren't? _____________________
"People can cry much easier than they can change."
-James Baldwin |