I have been Banned! Anyone know why?

Hi Hox
We were kinda stumbled when we found out you were missing from search. So thanks for posting and letting us know. Please try the to email the [email]abuse-manager@secondlife.com[/email] even if that is a longshot. Maybe try Torley too? Or even try calling LL? We really want you back in world.

I will let the others know that you posted and let Irina know not to sell any more boards until we know that you can come back.

Hugs
Eva

Good luck on getting back Hox. Your greatly missed by the crowd at Boogie.

Keep trying.

Wow this raises some issues ....

It seems that in the past, Hox did a BAD THING ... we don't know the full facts, but lets assume it was bad enough, that Lindens would want to take action.

Questions are ... shouldn't the system allow for:-

- Some sort of statute of limitations ... it was some time ago, and he is being punished for it NOW?
- Some recognition of punishment fitting the crime: something other than banning: sure if Hox stole money, he should repay; permanent banning is appropriate for ppl who REPEATEDLY cause offense.
- Some recognition of rehabilitation ... Hox is a guy of some talents - in the past he has seemingly used them for malicious purposes; right now he has made a MAJOR CONTRIBUTION to SL by the introduction of the wonderful game(s) of Boogie. Who knows how he could benefit this world in future

This raises the big questions of governance and justice: Lindens do on the whole a fine job of policing, but this case seems decidedly unfair.

Please add my voice to those calling for fair treatment here: Let Hox stay!

[And to Hox - your game rocks - thank you!]

Let me just chime in here and say this sucks.

Hox is my neighbor. He's a perfect SL neighbor. He's friendly and considerate, willing to coordinate on events. He even let me put up ads on his land. What a great guy.

I think this whole issue of something he did two years ago under an alt is a red herring. I think it's more likely that this is all just an accident, some at LL mistyped an IP address or something, and poof Hox is banned. There's other threads recently from people who received disciplinary action and have no idea why.

It seems LL is trying to crack down on griefers, but, understaffed as they are, they're making mistakes. Hox is collateral damage.

Hox, your Arcadia land is still there and functioning. I saw someone playing Boogie last night. I hope this gets straightened out ASAP.

Hox,
This I find very sad to see. I do not want to know what you did wrong a year ago. The fact of the matter is now you do good. You are more than fair to your employees that love to help you set up and host the boogie boards. Hopefully the Lindens will see it as a temporary thing and let you continue on with the good you do NOW.
The game you have created is by far one of the best in SL and it is something that we all enjoy.
Hopefully we will see you back soon

Outrageous? Hardly, just plain incompetent I think. Lot of that round these parts I've come to realise

I have found Hox helpful and have purchased a Boogie board, so yes, the Hox now is fine.

However, if he had previously been given a life ban, that is what it means.

Many people moan about alts and free registration and how people can grief, get banned and be back on the grid in minutes. Are those people suggesting the griefers should have temporary bans?

I don't know the circumstances of Hoxs first ban and have no need to.

Frequently I read on the forum claims that LL are bleeding heart liberals, the next draconian business owners. The inconsistency and lack of Customer Care by LL certainly is a problem, along with the failure to let people know why they are being warned or banned and what exactly they have done wrong.

However, if the original banning was a perma banning (I don't know if this is the case for Hox in his previous life), then that is life. If it was an indeterminate ban, then the owners of the platform have every right to maintain the ban as long as they see fit.

To reiterate, I didn't know the Hox of old and have been happy with my contact with him.

As notice to players of Boogie Solo, I will be removing the Solo Boogie board at Yeolmae, as the payout is run centrally, I assume from Hox's account.

The multi-player board will remain in place.

If Hox has been been banned again, through injustice, I wish him well in returning to the game.

i hope you come back real soon, Hox, we all miss you!

i'll still host the Boogie game today(Friday), from 3pm to 5pm.

I find this quite hysterical. Hox was given a lifelong ban, made a new account, acted good on the other account, made some great content, and now somehow that ban is supposed to go away?

People the problem isn't with LL, it's that Hox shouldn't have made a new account in the first place. Everything Hox made while on the grid after his lifelong ban was on borrowed time.

If anything you shouldn't be pissed that LL banned Hox, you should be pissed that it took them a year to figure it out.

If someone managed to hack your casino games, and clear you and other casino owners out. You'd problary want them banned.

The entire Boogie group is very sad sbout Hox's being banned and hope that the issue can be resolved in a way that would let him continue in SL. Boogie is the best game many of us have found in SL, and Hox has been generous with his creation. We understand that he does not want the game to die with his account, but he is not being given a chance to tranfer the ownership and operation of the game. That he is willing to do this speaks for his character. I don't know how he used the listening script, but perhaps there is a way he could make amends for any rule violation he may have committed. Banning him permanently harms not only him but also the whole boogie playing community.It would be a shame for SL to lose such a gifted game designer.

i created a "Hox-aid" box at the Boogie game in Arcadia.

Basically it says to send me a message saying to add you to the petition, so we can show how much we all want Hox to be unbanned and come back on SL!

you can easily spot that box, it's in front of the big game board, boogie-colored of course. Touch it and it will give you a notecard.

I agree.



Edit: What about that hair designer? She claimed her "brother" was banned previously, so she was allowed to play again. I guess if I get banned I'll claim it was my brother too so I can make another account.

Just out of curiosity (I'm no techy, so be gentle with me on this one) how do Linden Labs know when an account is an alternate? Do they compare the IP addresses? This would seem logical but I'm just curious to know.

I guess they do, and hardware recognition? Also, by looking at the account history I'm sure it'd be kind of easy to tell.

No not IP since in most cases ip's change frequently. They have an algorythm that gives each computer a unique identifier based on unknown things

As I understand it, the storage of IP and the Hardware ID are semi-recent changes. They were not in place a year ago when the listening event was supposed to have occurred.

Or, were they?

I imagine there are a number of techniques that could be used to link accounts.

Here's what I'd look for if I was doing detective work.

The obvious:
CC #
PayPal account
e-mail address
mailing address (you have to provide at least a valid zip code and name to use your credit card, so two accounts with the same name and zip are a shoe-in to be the same user, although that's not an absolute. I have a common name: there's a semi-famous actor with my name, as well as a comic strip writer, for example, and a family with the same last name used to live a block away from me.)

The less obvious:
tracking IP address history by account: if a person logs in with 2 accounts from the same IP within a few minutes of each other, you can assume the accounts are linked - at least loosely. (2 people at same house, for example).

You can also compare subnets: if the same account often logs on under different IP's in the same subnet, you can start looking at other accounts in the same subnet.

You can also do some social engineering: look at the avatar's group affiliations, friend lists, hangouts, even inventory (it's likely, for example, that he re-uploaded the same textures when he created his new account).

Chat history (an obvious one is a returning user logging in and looking up his old friends, and saying "Hey, I'm Joe Frank, remember me?"

With a simple tip-off, a talented investigator could build a case pretty quickly, even without hardware hashing. With access to all of SL's account data and history, it's not a trivial matter to match users with historical data, but it is certainly possible, and if there's a reason to look at an account, such as an AR being filed or a request to withdraw money via Lindex, then the chance of being caught goes way up.

(on that note, if LL has a US$ balance on your account and suspends you, aren't they obligated to refund that US$ balance? I'd think they would be. Maybe L$ have no value, but US$ certainly do!!)

I also agree with others: there should be a statute of limitations on perma-bans. People do grow up, and if someone makes restitution for their wrongs, I think they should be given a second chance.

---

And about hacking casinos that use chat to send messages... I think there's a level of responsibility to make your own scripts secure. If I put a box on my front porch that gave money out whenever someone said "money, please" on channel 27, should I have a right to complain if someone managess to empty my account?

Yes, we need laws protecting fraud, but those laws should NOT be a replacement for building a secure system of communication between objects. (I really wish we had a secure comm channel for objects in SL. E-mail really isn't good enough. We really need something that lets us send messages directly to - and only to - a specific object.)

Again, someone who is willing to make restitution should not be perma-banned. Stealing L$ is a bad thing, but if he gives it back - and uncovered a security hole in the process, who was really hurt in the long run?

I also have been told by Linden's customer service people that they do NOT publish all of their rules. This is to "prevent people from exploiting our service."

So it's possible that the hardware hash, mac tracking, or something similar, has been in place for a long time. (and if you look at the log of your average web site, there's lots of data that can be gathered from the protocol information without ever resorting to client-application processing).

Feel the need to (told you so) point out that this person did something that all of you would have been upset and demanded him being banned.. But he became INVOLVED in the community and has become a reasonable shinning model citizen... -.-

would reason that this would work in most cases.. note most cases not all..


DISCLAIMER: i dont' know how to bold so i am captailizing till someone gets tired of it and shares the secret of bolding

Bravo! I second that.

Hox just tell LL that it was your brother that did it, that apparently works wonders.

I don't know anything about this particular case.

But I am FOR other residents banding together to plead the case of a resident.

That's the way the real world works, and there's no reason why reason can't enter into the equation here, too.

coco

that's why i made a "Hox-aid" box at the Boogie game, asking to send me a message asking to be added to the petition. So we can show the Lindens how much we want Hox to come back. But for this, i need names to be added to the petition

So even if the person admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games, you want him back? I'm sorry if I just don't understand your thinking.

No, that's not what I'm saying, and LL has the final call in any case.

I'm talking about any situation which seems to be unfair (such as the hair person's), or in which there may be mitigating circumstances.

You know, there CAN be mitigating circumstances, even in a case where someone admitted to breaking the TOS and using/creating a script to steal money from games a year ago. (Though I'm not sure what, if anything, could justify that.) But LL has to first listen to even hear them.

In a reasonable society, abuse-manager isn't just a robot trashcan, but is human and has ears, and is willing to listen. Otherwise, why bother even having it?

In the case of SL, it would often seem that one person can apparently do nothing about their own case, even if right is totally on their side. The person just . . . never hears back.

And there's nothing they can do, even if the Lindens themselves say they don't even know what the person did wrong. So I'm saying that if it takes a number of people to advocate for a person, then I'm for them doing that.

As to the particular facts of a particular case, I'm not passing judgment. I'm just saying it is important in a just society that a case can at least be heard; for a person to be able to even MAKE a defense.

And that in the case of SL, that apparently takes numbers of people. So I'm for people doing that, when they feel moved to do so. And the Lindens will listen when they are convinced there has been an injustice. It's the convincing them that sometimes takes a village!

coco