Attn: Robin Linden

Can you please reply to this post since you are able to comment on threads at the moment, please?
An offical once and for all answer would be great
/108/bf/73922/1.html

Or any other Linden reply please?

It would be nice if Robin would have acknowledged on the thread that most people were complaining about items taken through permissions exploits (LL fault) and not the fault of creators AKA paying customers.


Ohh wait, different thread

Instead, LL refuses to address the issue with the customary hand waving.

Thanks for your reply to that thread Robin, but it still didnt answer the question... Is it OK or NOT OK to buy/sell/transfer accounts?

It is not ok to transfer accounts, per the TOS.

3.5 Unique Accounts; No Transfer. When an account is created the address on the account must match the address or other unique identifier on the credit card or other payment or identification method. You may register multiple accounts per credit card or other payment method but will only receive one trial period for the card or other payment method in any 3-month period and each additional account on one credit card or payment method will begin its billing when the account is created. You may not transfer your Account to any third party without the prior written consent of Linden.

Edit: Nevermind....

I guess this means if you ask LL if you can transfer an account, they will. But what's the basis that they approve/deny on? I guess if you own 40+ islands you have unlimited written permissions.

The passage of the TOS quoted contains what some view as a contradiction of the statement the rule is cited to support.

The last sentence in the quoted passage allows for the possibility of obtaining permission from Linden Research to sell accounts: "You may not transfer your Account to any third party without the prior written consent of Linden."

If there is no chance of obtaining written consent of Linden because there is a clear and never to be violated policy of never allowing account transfers why include that clause in the rules?

If the rule was intended to be clear and unequivocal then it should read "You may not transfer your Account to any third party." Period. Don't ask. No need to suggest the possiblilty that someone could get written permission.

Heheheh.

Well, I'm glad this eventually is being forced through, one way or another.

It's there as a backup clause, if LL needs to transfer an account to achieve particular task X, the option is availible.

I'm sorry, since when is this practice news?

Just to set things straight: I asked Linden Lab and received explicit written permission to keep the account in question.

Selling and transfering accounts in SL is also common practise. Most people, I assume, do so without asking permission from Linden Lab.

Yes, but the question is, why?

Why would LL ever permit an account transfer? Keeping the content created by exiting players in the world is a good thing, and it's nice they can get a final lump payment for it, but a total inventory transfer plus a ownership switch of placed objects would have done that. The only difference between that and an account transfer is the transfer of the identity and it seems like common sense that this is the aspect LL would have a problem with and the reason why they'd ban it in the TOS.

So what was it that, in this case, made LL decide that transferring the identity was OK? Was there some kind of issue with people knowing that they were now buying from Anshe?

pwned

"It's against the TOS but we do give our permission to some ppl."

Files this under:

What a load of BS.

Facts please--just because you say its common practice doesnt mean it is. Since you are one who cries foul when someone is not abiding by the TOS (espeically if it cuts into your profits), then who are these many culprits who obtained accounts without written permisison? Why arent you fighting for justice and screaming foul on all those who committed that crime? Just give us some first names or a last name---we can figure it out.

I mean you claim you are concerned about the community --thats your motivation behind alot of your actions right---- your concern????

Then Whooooooooooooooooo is doing this without written consent?
I think your Pals at LL would like to know that too.

Several points to consider:

1. With the release of information about this transfer of a player's identity and contents to another "content creator" player -- LL has basically made their TOS violation null and void for future denials. What was special about this transfer that the identity WAS REQUIRED to transfer as well as all inventory? LL will be hard pressed to even follow their own policy about account transfers in the future, and any player considering selling or transferring their account can use this one example as a 'set precedence' for future account sales.

2. Philip wants a strong economic and viable working (partnership) condition to flourish in SL so that business can continue to grow. With LL allowing account sales such as this -- these types of actions actually make a step backward in actually collaborating within SL on any types of businesses. Meaning, at any time your partner could decide to "up and sell" to another player without the need of notifying you. Contract software as well as the preservation of the online indentity is going to be important to allow business and the economy to truly grow.

3. Like the real world, players have a right to know whom they are doing business with and make valid choices of supporting that business or changing to another competitor.

4. Think of the alts. No, seriously. LL has also placed (supposedly) a limitation on the number of alts permitted by individuals based on credit card information. IF additional sales of "content creator" accounts is permitted (and from the disclosure of the recent sale of one above) -- there's absolutely no reason why this won't continue. Does this also mean that the change in the number of accounts (alts) permitted on one single credit card will also be changed as well?

And dear Mommy and Daddy Linden -- please use good judgment when deciding to do something that's explicity written in your TOS as a "no no". Your children are using the old tactic of "If Mommy says 'no' -- let's go ask Dad!" Your children need very defined and enforced rules to play nicely within your home. If not, expect a lot of coloring on the walls some yelling and arguments around the dinner table.

I mean, COME ON! If I pay $1K Linden a night for the hottest male escort in all of Second Life, I sure as hell don't want someone else -- I want "the" hottest male escort in all of Second Life (based on his identity's previous content and his advertising from that identity), not some bumbling, mumbling newbie tourist who has decided that "sex does sell" and purchased his account less than an hour ago.

/endsarcasm

Sometimes, the online identity is all you have on the internet. It's all you have in SL at the moment for your economic and business relationships. Preserve what little you have left.

What the TOS implies is that it is ok with the explicit permission from LL.

So the followup question is under what conditions will LL allow an account transfer to happen?

yes but Anshe also has first hand knowledge of those who have not received written permission - she indicated that herself -- its common partice. I think she owes it to the community and to LL to reveal those who are breaking the TOS. Or maybe they already know who these common practicioners are and are turning a blind eye.

Well Said!

How many here are missing the very last line of this TOS quote? Yet you still attack Anshe. In black and white it says:

You may not transfer your Account to any third party without the prior written consent of Linden.

Which means litterally:
You cannot ever sell or otherwise give your account to someone else without writing to LL and getting written permission back from us to perform the activity, only then can the account be transferred.

In other words, Anshe claims that she followed the procedure, LL followed the procedure and all is ok. If it is not ever ok to transfer accounts, that last line needs to go, not reworded but removed. That last line in there states that it can be done as long as the customer(s) follow protocol and being worded the way it is, it does not explicitly state that the requests will be denied either.

Excellent point Lynn, I agree.

Also if SL to be used for business then treat it like a business, not a game. It's really easy to screw over the general population when you know full well LL wont resolve shit.

Dear Mike,

We're not attacking anyone.

We're asking the Linden's for a representative guideline on WHEN it will be okay to transfer accounts that are sold. In other words, what qualifies as a "yes" when the account is sold.

We're also discussing what happens to the business and economy when this is permitted. While it's nice that the original content of the creator is continued in-world, many of us want to know who is really behind that AV. Is that the same person that I spoke to a year ago about doing a collaboration on a project?

We're also asking about the effect of "new alts" on an existing LL policy of number of accounts per credit card.

It's not an attack. Please read again. It's valid questions from the community about policies supposedly being enforced by LL.

Then again, it's probably "surf's up" in California and anything goes, dood!

Actually I have re-read the thread and there are a few (expected) jabs made at Anshe based upon past dealings with her which pretty much implied that she is above the rules and FIC yadda yadda. So I will agree that it wasn't an attack, I mis read it and was thinking of other postings I was jsut reading on other threads about Anshe and crossposted in a strange sort of way. All I was commenting on was the fact that most were still questioning the TOS and saying that Anshe got away with violating the TOS where as in fact, the TOS allows it to happen as long as the protocol is followed, so either you or I could perform the same task as long as we were to follow protocol.

Do you even know at this moment who is behind the AV that you are dealing with? How many people do you do business with day to day that you really know about? People change over the years anyway, the person behind my AV will not be the same person a year from now. Also, do you really want to know that the person behind an AV is really some sadistic murderer who is accessing SL from prison in RL?

One of those valid questions was already answered in black and white by the TOS quote. The question of if it is ok to transfer/sell an account. While I agree that there are a ton of other questions that need to be answered.

And I am missing who the Cali line is directed at. As I am in Ohio and would rather much be in the warm sun of Cali that this snowy hell for the next 4 months.

ahhh from humble beginings tee hee tee hee

"you give me 1k L$ I love you long time..."

rofl

Thanks for your deep insight in to this, Mike. *rolls eyes*.

I'll assume that AC has done that. Now LL needs to step up and tell us what criteria they use when determining if they will grant permission.

heh, I was researching past posts regarding Anshe to more understand the land barony situation and why so many are against it. I was also gaining info from past threads regarding the FIC association and the special permissions she supposedly gets. I read a lot of the personal attacks that were still kinda there, overlooked in the blinding fury of Forum Moderation as post after post contained some form of attack. Comparing then to now, the stuff I have read lately is pretty tame when it comes to dealing with Anshe.