Attn: Robin Linden

You are very welcome to the deep insight, I have more if you need any, free of charge at that.

I do agree with the fact that LL needs to tell us how they make the decision. We do need to know it.

there is no FIC its all based on how much you give LL per month is all. Anshe has been attacked in the past cant say it was always right, cant say it was always wrong either.

So lets see she takes over the land market, LL says "we dont see that, lots of ppl are wining the auctions."

So now she is buying content and Avatars.


Interesting. Ok who knows where she is going with this?

Well ya probably do if you ever played "Monopoly"

A Monopoly in SL is bad now how about a few of them.

LOL I say we all just not log in for a month and see how well that works out for the "shoe"

Needs repeating.

You're not going to get LL to address that publically.

They will do this at their sole descretion.

Here's a hypothetical situation I hope would be considered an acceptable account transfer:

My RL Wife & I both play SL. Both of our accounts are in my name, on my credit card. We are both established in SL, and folks recognize us by our names.

Later, my RL Wife & I divorce. And not on happy terms, sadly.

What happens to my wife's account? Does she have to create a new account & start over because of the divorce? Or could the account be transferred into her name so she can maintain it?

I certainly wouldn't want my ex-wife (on bad terms) to keep her account on my credit card, what with Lindex & everything.

Just questions, and no, I don't have a wife

True. But the content and avatars she is buying are resident owned, not LL owned. In this sense, the only way she could get it is if the orig owner wanted to transfer anyway, a lot harder than upping the bids on a land auction. The same thing goes with content too, a lot harder to get to unless the creator wants to give it up (unless another exploit is found, then that would be highly wrong). I do agree, the potential for abuse is there and it could lead to major issues down the road.

The land monopoly, I can almost agree to. A monopoly on content and avatars, I don't think that would be possible, as it would take both parties getting LL's permission to actually porform the transfer of the avatar account at least.

A monopoly isn't bad at all, look at the great desktop software we get to use everyday for the rest of our lives because of a monopoly. (ok, this was sarcastic)

(nod) Yes, there are major issues with this kind of thing.

What if Anshe buys up all the content and then just starts giving it away, on the grounds that it'll encourage new people to stay and rent houses? She makes back the lump-sum she paid for the account on land rentals, and then other content creators have trouble making money, and want to leave, and would like a lump sum as they go....

I kinda doubt she'd actually do that, but it is a worrying thought.

You want one? Im for sale-make good wife, just ask Waves.

I agree with Travis on his point, it is a situation where it seems like a reasonable thing to request.

However, the person who gets the "new account information" is truely the original person behind the avatar being transferred, so therefore there is no question of the history and reputation of the avatar. Your hypothetical wife would have no issue with making this known.

What concerns me, is informed consent of consumers. Nobody is obligated to reveal their RL identity behind the avatar and I see the possibilities for deception or underhandedness in the business community.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Lets say someone provides a product, who is very good about customer support, upgrades and refund policies. Then that person sells his/her business to someone who is not so forthright with the same policies and in fact, may be deliberately attempting to compete harshly with mine or another person's business or involved in programs which one does not endorse.

Why would I wholeheartedly endorse that person? It's deceptive.

The simplest way to determine if you are 'eligible' for a transfer is to .. write for permission.

No company HAS to reveal the criteria for and against eligibility, in fact there problably isn't a clear criteria, its problably a flexible policy (ie. up to them at their whim) ..nothing wrong with this as most business operate this way.

If you make the criteria too rigid, with too many variables, then the success for eligibility goes exponentially down.

So, try to get permission, its the only way you'll know for sure.

But what is the compelling reason to transfer the avatar AND all the contents?

Wouldn't the transfer of the contents be enough?

Why would you want the avatar and the name?

Wouldn't a marketing and advertising campaign of... "Now representing X's items..." suffice?

And if the Linden's didn't think this was all that of a "big deal" within SL -- then why the TOS notification and edit of September 9th of this year?

Flexible policy and "at their whim" are not the same thing.

The latter implies a capricious approach while former implies that there are some guidelines they use, but it's not a set list of requirements.



I guess you never heard of the term "guidelines" then?

It's prefectly reasonable for LL to publish the basic criteria for an account transfer. What isn't reasonable is LL saying out of one side of their mouths that accounts can't be transfered and while simultaneously saying from the other side that they are with written permission.

Do I think we'll ever see LL publish this? Hell No.

The thing is, both the wife and I do play SL together and we highly enjoy it. The problematic thing is, not knowing what the conditions would be to have an account transferred to another resident such as a resident's spouse is what I agree that we need to know. Does one of us need to die for that to be allowed? If we get a divorce citing Travis's view and go our separate ways, who could get custody of the account(s) especially if the credit card they are paid for is out of a joint account, would the courts decide this one when they go to split up the RL tangeble items like the house, the cars and any money left over? Seeing as how no private company TOS can ever trump any ruling of a court that is within reasonable laws, lets say the judge ruled in favor of splitting the accounts to their respected avatar human counterparts, wouldn't LL be forced by default to oblige, regardless of their TOS policy pending a written letter of intent is provided by the court?

I'm also wondering what happens to all of the "no transfer" content that AV had in it's inventory.

The most possible answer for why the avatar as well would be the branding behind it. Take for example Cubey Terra who is a household name to aviation buffs in SL. Or take Aimee (sp?) and her comapny known as *PREEN*, you get one, you get the other. I always forget the name of the aircraft that I am flying made by Cubey when someone asks what I am flying around in, but I remember who made it and that is usually the frist thing that comes to mind "it was made by Cubey Terra..." when I go to tell them what it is and where they can go buy one.

It sounds like what we're debating here is: Does a named avatar represent an individual, or a collective?

What a complicated & interesting discussion!


I think it can be either, or both - honestly.


The avatar everyone knows me by in SL is Travis Lambert.

I have an alternate account named "Sheltered Ambassador". This is a basic account, its only purpose being to hold the donated funds for the Shelter.

Say for whatever reason, I need to depart from Second Life. Would it be wrong of me to transfer "Travis" to someone else, to carry the torch for the Shelter? Yes, I think that's wrong. "Travis" is me, not an organization.

However, would it be wrong for me to transfer "Sheltered Ambassador" to someone else that wanted to keep the Shelter alive? Well, I'm not sure. But I can think of scenerios where it would make sense to do so.

Under that circumstance, however - I wouldn't be trying to hide or decieve anyone. Hardly anyone knows who "Sheltered" is, and its fairly clear by the name that it represents the Shelter as an organization.

Our in-world profiles currently state our Account Type, such as Charter Member, Member, etc. What if there was an account type that said "Transferred", so it couldn't be hidden? Would that change the discussion any?

As a side note, I think part of the reason some folks create 'group' av accounts is because the current group tools are sorely lacking. Maybe if Linden revamped those, the need to make group accounts would become unneccesary.

And if transferred to someone else, it would still be made by Cubey Terra, the vendor would just not be owned by him.

That would depend on if I received control of the avatar, then I could use the avatar as normal so then the vendors and associated products would be owned and created by him. If I bought out Cubey's assetts and not his avatar, had the aquired stuff handed to me with full perms, in theory I could rebuild it all, rescript it all and have my main account show up as both owner and creator.

Sorry Cubey for using you as an example if you are reading this I find it easier to relate info using examples of things and people that have a high chance of being commonly known, kind of how we associate adhesive bandages with a brand name, band-aid.

I AIN'T SELLIN' MY ACCOUNT, AND THAT'S FINAL!

I personally don't like the idea of accounts being sold. Mainly because our reputation in SL is very much tied to our name. If there is someone I support greatly, or even boycott because of their reputation, it would be awful to dupe me into carrying on the same attitude if the person behind the avatar suddenly changes.

Also, anyone want to PM the name of the avatar Anshe bought? I can't seem to find the name listed in the forums anywhere, though some posts seem to imply it is common knowledge.

/Agreed. It's running a front.

Here's my view: (probably unpopular)

People go on and on about the fact that SL isnt a game its a tool that has the potential to be a real business for you (which just so happens can be fun too). When someone comes along and plays SL likes its a game or disrupts someones business by either copyright infringement or direct disruptions (lag bombs, push scripts, griefing, etc), people here site real world laws, examples and other means to defend their SL business'. People buy real world business' all the time, so why not in SL? Sure you can buy the content. But if there's a ton of content and LL provides no tools to make it a smooth transaction, then why not simply buy the account? To me its like buying someones business IRL that has a strong brand name in their market. Why would you buy something, like Nike, and rename it to Boo Boo's Shoes? People in their market will probably hear about the transaction, but not everyone else.

And about the TOS thing. To me this example is like someone that owns a fancy and very popular restaurant and a very frequent and high spending customer comes by and asks for a table. However your rules state its first come, first serve for a table. But you have others waiting for a table themselves. What do you do? Well in RL in alot of places, money talks. And that VIP customer that is always there, throwing around alot of cash WILL get to be seated ahead of others who were already there in most cases.

Anshe spends alot of money no LL, so why are we so up in arms that they approved this transaction that some of us might not get approved? What if LL said no? Odds are Anshe would buy the content anyways but would just have to work that much more to transfer it. So her visibility to LL allowed her to bypass a huge mountain of mundane and wasteful work... Good for her. I just hope if I ever need something similar that LL would approve mine too. But if they dont I wont sweat it because Im a small fry in LL eyes.

My only response is, buy the business. not the person.

Thats my point. Anshe is buying the business but LL doesnt have an easy technical solution to do this. So Anshe asked to buy the account and it was approved. Unless someone can show me that Anshe is going around pretending to be this other 'person' (ie roleplaying as them) and trying to deceive people, then Anshe shouldnt even be a concern. However the general topic of account transfers is a good topic, but Im just saying Im not concerned by this one transaction.

The problem isnt this one transaction. the problem is account sales. It is not about Anshe, I dont know how many times that has been said in this thread.
And as for your resturaunt comment, here in Colorado that is called discrimination and unless they have an official VIP group, they can be sued, it doesnt matter how rich or poor you are.