Linden Labs open invitation to griefers and extortionists?

He had land for sale in Brown, a linden zoned sim. His price was 3000l for 16m of land. Jack Linden took the sign down - zoned sim rules. The guy lowered his price to 500L for the plot. Conclusion: his method of extortion was removed and he realized he could not sell the land without the massive sign in the sky to annoy people. So he dropped his price radically.

I hate to say this, but that doesn't prove much.

A change of text and back in business.

meaning?

From what I saw, to me, it was fairly obvious what he was doing.

Call it whatever you want. He's putting up unnapealing stuff to sell his land.


And to be quite honest, i think this part of your definition fits in quite well:

when a person obtains money by inflicting harm to this person, reputation, or property.


Can your property really be harmed in a virtual space? Maybe not. It's all pixels. But by that logic, we shouldn't have any issues with anything in SL since it's all fake.

It is obvious to you, not to me. My dealings with him have led me to believe he just likes to rile people up and it is NOT extortion.

Believe me, LL will have a change of heart regarding TOS enforcement *well* before that takes place.

When RL money is at stake in SL, you bet people will continue to equate the practices of SL with RL. Or should they not?

He's not doing anything (or threatening) to anyone else's property but his own.

You're giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm not. What you're calling freedom of expression, I'm calling land extortion. Here's why:

He had land for sale in Brown, a linden zoned sim. His price was 3000l for 16m of land. Jack Linden took the sign down - zoned sim rules. The guy lowered his price to 500L for the plot. Conclusion: his method of extortion was removed and he realized he could not sell the land without the massive sign in the sky to annoy people. So he dropped his price radically.

Freedom of expression is cool, if you're expressing your freedom, as opposed to expressing your freedom to extort people.

Sure he is. When ugly builds crop up next to your land, it brings down the value. It also reduces your enjoyment of your land because when you're on your land, you're forced to look at it.

So it stands to reason that the best way to both tolerate him and remove his ability to manipulate is to actually live and let live.

Anyone's interpretation of an "ugly build" could conceivably bring down the value of my land. Because a potential buyer doesn't like the mermaid castle next door to me, would that make my neighbor an extortionist? .

Yes, it is my opinion, just as it is Aimee's opinion that there is nothing in the TOS to cover this situation.

However there are at least three things in the TOS to cover this situation, and I have put those forth before.

Therefore it is a matter of interpretation of the TOS, which is always subjective and a matter of opinion, just as interpreting the U.S. Constitution is subjective. That doesn't mean that people are going to stop interpreting the Constitution, or stop trying to use it, or existing laws and legal precedent, to run the country.

I am not ASSUMING this user's conduct amounts to griefing. That would imply that I know nothing about the situation whatsoever. I have CONCLUDED his conduct amounts to griefing, based on many observerable facts as well as ample anecdotal evidence, chat logs, etc.

"Right now all you have is the fact that you don't like the ugly signs."

That is not a fact at ALL. That is something you have said and attributed to me. I'm not even sure I've ever used the term "ugly" in reference to his signs; I have said I don't like them. You are making me sound like somebody standing there stamping my foot and saying, "Mommy! I don't like that club's revolving sign next door! Make them take it down!"

I couldn't care less about this or that person's individual build, ugly, boring, or whatever; I usually outlast whatever is around me. I had one of these signs next to me on this property I had, and I didn't pay it the slightest attention, though I could see perfectly well the extortionary prices on the land under it.

It's when these signs multiplied, all over the grid, bringing down land values and making people miserable, taking up all the available land in a sim, while he raked in the bucks, that I recognized it as more than just an "ugly build" problem and became concerned.

This is a widespread, growing societal problem that not only griefs individual residents, but threatens SL itself. That's a far bigger "fact" than someone not caring for another person's sign or build.

That it is extortion is a total fact. I'm not sure how you are defining extortion, but let's say irl, someone next door to you kept blaring the stereo at all hours, and you demanded they stop. They said they would if you gave them $5,000. I call that extortion.

Now I know that's not a perfect analogy, but that IS what is going on here, and the guy himself has admitted as much, if other people's chat logs can be taken at face value.

coco

Sure he is. When ugly builds crop up next to your land, it brings down the value. It also reduces your enjoyment of your land because when you're on your land, you're forced to look at it.

And how DO you determine if a build is ugly?

Well, you have now seen evidence of that. But to take your point, if someone offers the Brooklyn Bridge for sale, they are still a confidence trickster, whether they find a buyer or not.

You're giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm not. What you're calling freedom of expression, I'm calling land extortion. Here's why:

He had land for sale in Brown, a linden zoned sim. His price was 3000l for 16m of land. Jack Linden took the sign down - zoned sim rules. The guy lowered his price to 500L for the plot. Conclusion: his method of extortion was removed and he realized he could not sell the land without the massive sign in the sky to annoy people. So he dropped his price radically.

Freedom of expression is cool, if you're expressing your freedom, as opposed to expressing your freedom to extort people.

Yes I want to be given the benifit of the doubt before the lindens take dowm my build because the neighboors don't like it. And yes, the inference you draw from his conduct is a proper one, but it is also proper to say that since he could not put his sing there the land had no value to accomplish his purpose of expressing his political opinion, and thus he got rid of the land.

Tjhis inference is equally valid. How do you pick betewwen them?

No. But if he consistently put the same build all over the grid that is widely hated and then sets his land for sale at very high prices, that probably makes him an extortionist. Or at the very least what he's doing can be easily interpreted as extortion.

The set of circumstances in this particular case is very important to look at as a whole instead of in separate bits.

There's a specific set of conditions that has to be met for extortion, and this guy just doesn't meet them.

It's a judgement call. Which is why LL has been reluctant to do anything about it. He's within the TOS. Does that make what he's doing right and fair? Probably not. So, the TOS needs to be changed, or, we need to be given tools that enable us to control waht we see. There's lots of stuff i'd like to visually mute.