Warning! Self-replicating Land Scanner on many sims!

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*whistles*

Another perfect examople of a law that protects criminals more than honest citizens, it's definately time for a radical change in policies.

From a scripter's point of view, I agree... I can script far nastier that stay within the TOS, but I choose not to because I'm a nice guy and I have no desire to intrude on people.

But, the Linden rep I spoke to raised a good point - right now it's not a criminal thing because the law simply doesn't cover it. So, we need to lobby that the law should be interpreted as such. Essentially - take it to the supreme court for a constitutional interpretation. I've asked that this be escalated and I was told it would be passed on for further consideration.

To be clear - I am impressed with LL's ability to walk the line, go by rules they have made, and not sacrifice their integrity to deal with a grey-area problem maker.

So whats this guy doing that others havent figured out how to do? I assume others have land/price scanners but is this guy the only one that has them deployed this well and all over?

Actually, even at the cost of being considered nasty, I stand exactly on the opposite side of a barricade here: I would much more prefer to see the lindens get some dirt on their hands to deal with a grey-area problem maker in the swiftest, exemplary and most effective way, to finally give the idea that one can't continue to game the system and to make fun of both honest citizens and the lindens themselves with actions that maybe don't violate the exact letter of the law but FOR SURE violate it's spirit, and badly.

Be careful, it really IS possible to go to far the other way.

Every kind of peaceful cooperation among men is primarily based on mutual trust and only secondarily on institutions such as courts of justice and police.
-Albert Einstein

Whenever you have an efficient government you have a dictatorship.
-Harry Truman

In the part of this universe that we know there is great injustice, and often the good suffer, and often the wicked prosper, and one hardly knows which of those is the more annoying.
-Bertrand Russell

Pick your poison. Personally, I have no great desire to live in a police state.

Ok, I 'traced' some of these back to a major 'vein'. I live in Degar and started watching these things come in. Usually they enter the sim from the south in pairs (2 of them with 2 prims ea). So I entered the sim south of Degar: Wichi. Followed the path back south. They entered Wichi from Innu. They entered Innu from Jarawa (south again). I then followed them south thru Jarawa cause there is no sim south of Jarawa and i was curious where they came from then.

About 32m from the SW corner of Jarawa I saw them coming in kinda at an angle from Ainu. I then went west towards the Jarawa/Ainu sim line and then BAM! Like 20+ of these things shot past me from the west. I then went west into Ainu and found a spot where a BUNCH of them travel to then depart. I tried to take a pic but it didnt inclued the beacon lines. So if you want to see about 20+ of these things arrive in one close area, go to Ainu and go to (252, 32, 400). You will be amazed!

I wonder what the resident of that parcel would say if they knew 20+ scanner scripts parked on their lot every 45 secs or so?

This system may be skimming on the tip of TOS, but lets face the facts:

1)Since this thing has been initialy detected, a large portion of the community have displayed an increasing displeasure with this system and its tendency to do what it does.

2)Since the discovery of this system, the community protest have only grown to be more and more vocal each time a protest was on.

3)This service is designed to give profit and benefit to a single person, while using community resources without giving back to the community.

4)You cannot opt out.

5)The owner does not care about you.

The fact that this situation has been going on since sometime in April 2004, is enough of a reason to show that perhaps the current TOS rules are not enough to deal with the situation.

Every now and then, a situation arise when the people in charge just have to sit down, and use their own heads and ability to deduct common sense: A large portion of the community is being aggravated by the actions of a single person for the period of almost a year.

Maybe, just maybe, its time to do something about it.

The TOS is a rigid set of rules. But people are not machines. Not the griefers and not the ones being griefed. Sometimes, you just have to put the book down, and use your own head. This is why there are still human employees in community managment jobs - humans posses the ability to use common sense and the ability to think out of the box. For if this was not the situation, it would have been just enough to put a simple Turing Machine over the Abuse Reports station and get over with it.

Self replicating scripts that have a negative effect on sim performance count under this, in my humble opinion, the need for someone to interpret this regulation and deal with the problem that's becoming an increasingly protested one, would be within this regulation's guidelines.

The ammount of resources this type of scanner takes is abnormally high, and the combination of the hit in performance, and the user outcry would count as detrimental interference.

This work, makes me feel that mine is threatened, it offends people who pay for property these scanners are running on, it takes from their sims, it lowers property value.

I don't normally say this, and it makes me feel a bit bad to do so openly on the forums, but I feel this is a device that should not be, for the sake of the community.

Just used scanfoo to check my land in Kasba. They are floating up there at 400m as well.
I keep hearing how this guy is scating the rules, but not breaking them. The thing is, he
has objects over my land that I do not want there. He is using up resources in the sim I
and others have land in, even though he owns no land there. How is this not against the
rules? I could send him an IM asking him to take them off, but if he even responded and
did, I have a feeling they would be back a week later, given what ive seen has already
occured concerning this. I dont even have the option to return them, as as soon as I get
close to tracking one down it disappears and another takes its place 10 seconds later.
And if I understand correctly I couldnt even if I tracked one down because its temp on res.
Heck, even after 1.6, when youll be able to return any object from any one person, that
still wont stop another from popping up 10 seconds later from wherever they are comming
from near me. Again, how on earth can such a wide spread drain on resources that he is not
paying for as he doesnt own most of the land where these objects are not be against the rules?

I wonder what the Lindens would do if the owner of that plot (and im sure there are many more) where 20+ of these things migrate to complained? I mean this is 40+ prims and a ton more scripts that show up EVERY 45 secs.

[LEFT]Just used scanfoo to check my land in Kasba. They are floating up there at 400m as well.
I keep hearing how this guy is scating the rules, but not breaking them. The thing is, he
has objects over my land that I do not want there. He is using up resources in the sim I
and others have land in, even though he owns no land there. How is this not against the
rules? I could send him an IM asking him to take them off, but if he even responded and
did, I have a feeling they would be back a week later, given what ive seen has already
occured concerning this. I dont even have the option to return them, as as soon as I get
close to tracking one down it disappears and another takes its place 10 seconds later.
And if I understand correctly I couldnt even if I tracked one down because its temp on res.
Heck, even after 1.6, when youll be able to return any object from any one person, that
still wont stop another from popping up 10 seconds later from wherever they are comming
from near me. Again, how on earth can such a wide spread drain on resources that he is not
paying for as he doesnt own most of the land where these objects are not be against the rules?[/LEFT]

Just used scanfoo to check my land in Kasba.
They are floating up there at 400m as well.
I keep hearing how this guy is scating the rules, but not breaking them.
The thing is, he has objects over my land that I do not want there.
He is using up resources in the sim I and others have land in, even though
he owns no land there. How is this not against the rules?
I could send him an IM asking him to take them off, but if he even responded
and did, I have a feeling they would be back a week later, given what ive
seen has already occured concerning this. I dont even have the option to
return them, as as soon as I get close to tracking one down it disappears
and another takes its place 10 seconds later. And if I understand correctly
I couldnt even if I tracked one down because its temp on res.
Heck, even after 1.6, when youll be able to return any object from any one
person, that still wont stop another from popping up 10 seconds later from
wherever they are comming from near me. Again, how on earth can such
a wide spread drain on resources that he is not paying for as he doesnt own
most of the land where these objects are not be against the rules?

update: well, I finally found one of the sources and it seems I can return them. I guess
I can just make a hobby while im reading the forums to sit at 400m and return every one i see.

First of all, just because someone is a land baron does not lump them into lag inducing avs detracting everyone's fun. Most land barons work within the rules of the TOS.

Dont get me wrong, I am against using self replicating objects over land you don't own too, some people use them on their own land, keeping an eye on the same sim. Not all scanners are lag intensive either.

The same can be said about 200 prim hair, but banning all hair from all avs is just not happening.

Others know how, but choose not to, mainly because of the effect on the community.

Okay...I know better than to jump into something this heated, but sometimes you just have to say something.

Morlee:
>>>I could send him an IM asking him to take them off, but if he even responded
and did, I have a feeling they would be back a week later, <<<<

I suspect the above statement is untrue.

Weedy:
>>>>just because someone is a land baron <<<<

Pete Fats is not a land baron.

I know this will most likely not change anyone's mind, but Pete has been my next door neighbor for a long time, and I feel like I know him well. He has been consistently kind, helpful and non-critical. He just is not the person you people are describing. If we were to make a list of people for whom Pete has created things or scripted things or textured things, for free, it would be a very long list.


I'm not saying there's not an issue here. I'm just saying please don't make assumptions about him. He has a quirky mind...yes. But he is not greedy, mean, uncaring or insensitive. He's just not.

Maggie

Leaving self replicating, unattended objects, never answering IM's, providing information to a land baron is caring and sensitive?

Its possible that its untrue. Thats why I said I have a have a feeling.
The fact remains though that he did not ask my, nor any other person
thats spoken here, permission to keep putting these objects on our
land over and over. Temp on rez or not. So Im doing the only thing I
can with the tools made available to me. I am returning each one of these
that I spot over my land back to him. I also urge anyone else who happens
to have land where these things congregate to do the same. Build a platform
at 397m or so, set up a chair, turn on highlight transparent and object beacons.
Been having a blast up on mine, chatting away with friends, reading the forums,
and returning objects all the while.

I just scanned Luo and Tharu with Scan-Foo and yes, they are there too. Swanson seems to grab all of the released land in the area within minutes of release (Yesterday too), yet owns no land in either sim. Gee, I wonder where he gets his information.

Scan-foo: Information about 'lb v2':
Scan-foo: Object key: 1155076eD-d4f7-b48e-ac10-d79de64943fb
Scan-foo: Located at: <64.00000, 64.00000, 400.00000>
Scan-foo: Angle: <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000>
Scan-foo: Rotation: <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000, 1.00000>
Scan-foo: Velocity: <0.00000, 0.00000, 0.00000>
Scan-foo: Owner: Pete Fats ( 3e43422a-fb6b-4a38-9756-d6ffaa8635c7 )

Well,

Morlee and I have been returning the little F***ers back to the guy.
We have also sent in "report Abuse" notes, and have given the guy bad rateings in both buidling and in behavior..

Watching these things fly on to our land is getting both annoying and boring..
I am hopeing with enough abuse reports they will put a stop to this.

I wonder what data he is gathering.
Can anyone trap one of these things long enough to get an inventory listing?

Well the only thing that we have seen in the contents file says new script..

I have asked the Lindens, if it is reasonable to IM the owner of objects rezzed on your land, that cant be returned with the current tools available. A security object will IM you by script. I dont see why an unreturnable item owner cant be IM'd once only per object.

Script in development. If the Lindens say its alright....I will release it.

silly newbies,

What if every time any person annoyed you in the slightest or did something you didn't like, you sent an abuse report or flared off onto the forums to shout their name?
(btw lindens why hasn't the "person named's" name been edited out of this post yet? You seem so quick to do it for everyone else)
The lindens are personable and friendly because up until very recently the population has shown a certain degree of ability to police itself through a little thing called communication.
Any of you reaming the owner of these objects hae obviously never met him. And I seriously doubt you've taken much time to actually speak to him. This kind of mob mentality is sickening and Im *shhocked* by some of the people that are participating in it, (I however wont name names because thats counter-productive).

Here's the bottom line folks, the lindens looked into it, it is not a TOS violation, if they are particularly disruptive to you you could simply ask the owner to remove them. However since they aren't a TOS violation he is under no obligation to remove them.

Crucifying some poor guy in the forums because you get a proverbial wild hair is immature and destructive. I hate bling jewelry, I hate 4068048690 prim hair (you want to talk about lag.. yeesh) but do I come on the forums and pund nails into everyone I see wearing laggy attachments? I hate sniffer scripts and so called LSL 'hackers', I hate newbies coming into my home sim and leaving the most ridiculous lag causing stuff laying around grinding my sim to a halt, but do I come on, name names of people I KNOW do this and turn it into a crucible? Of course not.

Newsflash kiddies, things in SL cause lag... many things cause lag, unless these thigns are deleting themselves a bajillion times a minute... they're not the source of your sims lag...

SL is what SL is because we have power over our environment... we have the ability to control it and make just about anything we can imagine. The trade-off for this is sometimes we encounter things we dont like. If you want to live in a completely policed environment with little to no freedom or ceativity... go play There, or WoW or anything... you have no place in SL. Grow up or get out.

Oh and bro, if you're reading this, maybe its time for that beer eh?