I got all the peices, I'm putting them together. Day in day out the messageboard is "They attacked our club","What are the Lindens going to do?!?!" etc,etc. Well the question you should be asking is "What are we, the residents, going to do?" To keep these asshats from spoiling our fun?
I'm working on a security system where you'd pick the names of people to eject/tphome/orbit/maim/etc, and if they came back, it'd do it again. I'm sure there are other solutions already done by people far better at scripting, but if I made one, would folks use it?
Present Features::
- Can be accessed by authorized users, can be accessed anywhere in sim via remote panels or attachments.
- Can scan for and sort through a user list covering the entire sim
- Option to keep kicking a person that reappears.
- Option to remove the name from that list (if you make a mistake)
I still need a place to test and work on it, as I don't live in an area regularly crawling with greifers (tho I've picked a few off my turf).
EDIT: I'm sorry, I really need to be more specific when I post, I just don't like to write long paragraphs I don't people will read.
- This system would only automatically eject/tphome people added to a banlist.
- This would NOT be an automated 'abuse every flyby', it would have to be told who to ban.
- The first version would not check for age/verif (the tools for verif aren't out yet), that's straight descrimination, but would have a lockdown feature in a future version that checked for both.
- The peices I have right not can scan an entire sim at ground level up to 180ish meters. With options to scan higher. I'm talking with a few radar makers to expand on this. Yes, it can already handle more than 16 entries.
- It would check for the avatar being over your land before it attempt to tp them home, but banlisted agents would be fair game.
- There would be a reporting function built-in.
- Instead of chat commands, you'd access the system with a remote access prim (like a security panel you in homes) that'd initiate a dialog session, because it's easier to get aperson's name
- Caging a person could be added, but even a 'inescapable' cage won't stop them from spamming your land
- This system may or may not have an option to trigger on the detected rezzing of unauthorized objects on your land. (with a whitelist for authorized people).
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CUSTOMER INPUT:: What Features Do You Want In Your Complete Parcel Security System? |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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07-06-2006 08:58
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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07-06-2006 09:41
It has to be able to cover sim and larger areas by means of remote scanners or some form of unit intercommunication.
It should be able to ban groups - everybody in a named group, regardless of them having the group 'active' or not. It should be able to ban by 'caste'. And ideally, IF LL ever come to realise that this is an essential function, it should be able to ban by hash code - because that's the only way to deal with 'banned? just a mo, I'll just make another alt' A feature to flay the griefer alive and preserve the skin for a warning display would be good too! _____________________
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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07-06-2006 09:50
Sadly. The lame excuse we have for group detection does not allow us to pull entire groups/rosters and add them to a KILL ON SITE list.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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07-06-2006 09:55
None.
I consider anything that is not Linden created (such as ban lines) that forcibly prevents or ejects me from where I choose to go as griefing, and it will be reported every time. Unless someone turns on ban lines, then anywhere in world is fair game as far as I and many others are concerned. Our right to roam supercedes any perceived right to "privacy", especially when the property owner is not even online. After all, what's the point of playing a social game like SL if all you plan to do is lock yourself away somewhere from everyone else? Lewis _____________________
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Annah Zamboni
Banannah Annah
Join date: 2 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,022
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07-06-2006 09:58
Burke, how effective is your security system against people that bought your orbiter? Lets say you own a club and someone comes along with your orbiter, orbits you, but you arnt sure who orbited you (and keeps orbiting you), how will this security system help out in that case?
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Cubey Terra
Aircraft Builder
Join date: 6 Sep 2003
Posts: 1,725
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07-06-2006 10:02
I don't use one of these, but I've encountered enough to want these built-in safety features:
* Default scan distance is set low, instead of 96m. * Parcel size check: when setting the scan distance, it checks for the edge of the parcel. Don't allow it to scan farther than the edge of the parcel. A lot of mis-configured security systems harrass neighbours. Help your customers by preventing this. * By default, give 10 seconds warning to an intruder before taking any action, so casual passers-by aren't unfairly smashed five sims away. * If the owner chooses really obnoxious settings, give the owner a warning that it may lead to abuse reports against them. OR don't allow really obnoxious settings. I've encountered one with a 96m scan radius that orbited anyone who came near. That's not security. That's abuse. * Add the Official FIC Whitelist. Allow FIC members free access to the land at all times.  _____________________
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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07-06-2006 10:02
You may report them, but as long as the system requests you to leave and gives you a reasonable time to do so, and doesn't react outside the owners land, it's perfectly TOS legal.
All you'll do is waste AR team time and delay real griefing reports being dealt with. Unless they have put your name on a 'spurious AR reporters' list that's automatically ignored. Which is what I'd do. _____________________
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Inigo Chamerberlin
Registered User
Join date: 13 May 2006
Posts: 448
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07-06-2006 10:04
None. I consider anything that is not Linden created (such as ban lines) that forcibly prevents or ejects me from where I choose to go as griefing, and it will be reported every time. Unless someone turns on ban lines, then anywhere in world is fair game as far as I and many others are concerned. Our right to roam supercedes any perceived right to "privacy", especially when the property owner is not even online. After all, what's the point of playing a social game like SL if all you plan to do is lock yourself away somewhere from everyone else? Lewis You may report them, but as long as the system requests you to leave and gives you a reasonable time to do so, and doesn't react outside the owners land, it's perfectly TOS legal. All you'll do is waste AR team time and delay real griefing reports being dealt with. Unless they have put your name on a 'spurious AR reporters' list that's automatically ignored. Which is what I'd do. _____________________
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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07-06-2006 10:12
You may report them, but as long as the system requests you to leave and gives you a reasonable time to do so, and doesn't react outside the owners land, it's perfectly TOS legal. Define "reasonable". I don't consider 6 seconds reasonable by any means, especially when you aren't even planning on stopping but just using open airspace. "Griefing" is anything that disrupts your legitimate activity in SL. If someone pushes you across a sandbox with a gun, it's griefing - so why isn't someone pushing you half way across the sim because you went too close to something you didn't know you weren't supposed to NOT considered griefing? The fact that SL has to ask permission for you to be hugged or do a dance animation with someone, yet anyone can push you across 2 sims and you haven't got a clue who it is any more who even did it - doesn't that say something is skewy? Can you imagine a website saying "I don't like your IP address" and redirecting you to some random website that you didn't ask to? Things like this are the reason SL will never be the "3D web". Lewis _____________________
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crucial Armitage
Clothing Designer
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 838
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07-06-2006 10:20
Define "reasonable". I don't consider 6 seconds reasonable by any means, especially when you aren't even planning on stopping but just using open airspace. "Griefing" is anything that disrupts your legitimate activity in SL. If someone pushes you across a sandbox with a gun, it's griefing - so why isn't someone pushing you half way across the sim because you went too close to something you didn't know you weren't supposed to NOT considered griefing? The fact that SL has to ask permission for you to be hugged or do a dance animation with someone, yet anyone can push you across 2 sims and you haven't got a clue who it is any more who even did it - doesn't that say something is skewy? Can you imagine a website saying "I don't like your IP address" and redirecting you to some random website that you didn't ask to? Things like this are the reason SL will never be the "3D web". Lewis Any security system that uses push can be reported as abuse however if it simply teleports you home then that is completely with in the terms of service. _____________________
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Buxton Malaprop
Mad Physicist
Join date: 8 Jun 2005
Posts: 118
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07-06-2006 11:56
Lewis:
Zero-warning Ejects and Teleports Home by automated security scripts are entirely "TOS-legal". They're not what I'd call best practice (in fact, they're deeply rude and annoying), but they're entirely allowed and permissible under the current rules. If you don't like that, then what you need to do is get the rules changed. Tying up the Abuse teams with your complaints which you KNOW are not against the ToS justs wastes your time and theirs. _____________________
Phillip and Griefers Sitting In A Tree
K-I-S-S-I-N-G |
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Wrom Morrison
Validated User
Join date: 15 Apr 2006
Posts: 462
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07-06-2006 11:58
This can only be done by LL.
I want them to give lsl access to the following. 1. Freeze 2. Account verification status (not even in 1.11 or 1.12) |
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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07-06-2006 12:01
Lewis: Zero-warning Ejects and Teleports Home by automated security scripts are entirely "TOS-legal". They're not what I'd call best practice (in fact, they're deeply rude and annoying), but they're entirely allowed and permissible under the current rules. If you don't like that, then what you need to do is get the rules changed. Tying up the Abuse teams with your complaints which you KNOW are not against the ToS justs wastes your time and theirs. You confirm what I always say, most of the land owning residents of SL are RUDE. |
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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07-06-2006 12:01
If you don't like that, then what you need to do is get the rules changed. Linden Lab can't even follow the existing rules they have - so how are they supposed to make a new one and enforce it? Lewis _____________________
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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07-06-2006 14:43
I consider anything that is not Linden created (such as ban lines) that forcibly prevents or ejects me from where I choose to go as griefing, and it will be reported every time. llEjectFromLand() LSL call is by all means "Linden created". |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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07-06-2006 15:10
These would only be automated for people specifically blacklisted by the owner or authorized user. It would check w/ OverMyLand for ejections/tphomes before kicking anyone.
This isn't meant for idling picking of passerby, it's for putting the punt to people that actively try to make a nuisance of themselves and attack you and yours. |
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Tengu Yamabushi
Registered User
Join date: 25 Sep 2005
Posts: 191
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07-06-2006 15:46
I got all the peices, I'm putting them together. Day in day out the messageboard is "They attacked our club","What are the Lindens going to do?!?!" etc,etc. Well the question you should be asking is "What are we, the residents, going to do?" To keep these asshats from spoiling our fun? I'm working on a security system where you'd pick the names of people to eject/tphome/orbit/maim/etc, and if they came back, it'd do it again. I'm sure there are other solutions already done by people far better at scripting, but if I made one, would folks use it? Present Features:: - Can be accessed by authorized users, can be accessed anywhere in sim via remote panels or attachments. - Can scan for and sort through a user list covering the entire sim - Option to keep kicking a person that reappears. - Option to remove the name from that list (if you make a mistake) I still need a place to test and work on it, as I don't live in an area regularly crawling with greifers (tho I've picked a few off my turf). Any thoughts on overcoming the 16-avatar sensor limit? (you mention covering a sim, so I presume mutliple scanpoints)? Thoughts on accessing a separate (pooled) off-grid blacklist via http request? Or by other means? Thoughts on taking pre-orders? -- Tengu  |
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Metawraith Mistral
Ghost in the Machine
Join date: 26 Sep 2005
Posts: 166
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07-06-2006 15:56
How about a means to detect those sneaky under the radar lindens? After all we wouldnt want them to catch us ping pong with a griefer we just caught now would we?
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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07-06-2006 16:11
Any thoughts on overcoming the 16-avatar sensor limit? (you mention covering a sim, so I presume mutliple scanpoints)? Thoughts on accessing a separate (pooled) off-grid blacklist via http request? Or by other means? Thoughts on taking pre-orders? -- Tengu The genius scanning device can handle more than 16 users, granted, it's responsiveness depends on the sim. |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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07-06-2006 16:12
llEjectFromLand() LSL call is by all means "Linden created". Sure was! So was llTeleportAgentHome()! If my push event proposal goes throught I'll propose llMaim, but I doubt that'll be implemented before Havok 2. |
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Merlyn Bailly
owner, AVALON GALLERIA
Join date: 7 Sep 2005
Posts: 576
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07-06-2006 16:58
None. I consider anything that is not Linden created (such as ban lines) that forcibly prevents or ejects me from where I choose to go as griefing, and it will be reported every time. Unless someone turns on ban lines, then anywhere in world is fair game as far as I and many others are concerned. Our right to roam supercedes any perceived right to "privacy", especially when the property owner is not even online. After all, what's the point of playing a social game like SL if all you plan to do is lock yourself away somewhere from everyone else? Lewis Yeah, it's a Brit -- using the phrase "right to roam" is a dead giveaway, even before I looked at the sig. Not everyone considers SL to be a "social game" -- remember, it's supposed to be what every single individual wants it to be, NOT JUST WHAT YOU WANT TO THINK IT IS. So if someone decides that their land is their private playground, and that you are unnecessary to their SL experience, if you've been a jerk in some way (griefing them or wandering in when they forgot to lock the door, or peering in on them using the camera zoom when they wanted a little privacy), then they have a perfect RIGHT to bounce your ass off their property every single time you show up. It's pixels in an electronic box that's sitting in CALIFORNIA, son. Unlike the UK, there is no common law in SL, no "right to roam" of the commons, no dealing with hundreds of years of village "right-of-way" agreements and assumptions, no idiots wandering around harassing the hedgehogs and badgers (or the residents, if they don't want you there). In SL, it's MY LAND - MY RULES. _____________________
SL used to be a game -- now it's a corporate advertising/marketing platform.
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Ranma Tardis
沖縄弛緩の明確で青い水
Join date: 8 Nov 2005
Posts: 1,415
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07-06-2006 17:12
Yeah, it's a Brit -- using the phrase "right to roam" is a dead giveaway, even before I looked at the sig. Not everyone considers SL to be a "social game" -- remember, it's supposed to be what every single individual wants it to be, NOT JUST WHAT YOU WANT TO THINK IT IS. So if someone decides that their land is their private playground, and that you are unnecessary to their SL experience, if you've been a jerk in some way (griefing them or wandering in when they forgot to lock the door, or peering in on them using the camera zoom when they wanted a little privacy), then they have a perfect RIGHT to bounce your ass off their property every single time you show up. It's pixels in an electronic box that's sitting in CALIFORNIA, son. Unlike the UK, there is no common law in SL, no "right to roam" of the commons, no dealing with hundreds of years of village "right-of-way" agreements and assumptions, no idiots wandering around harassing the hedgehogs and badgers (or the residents, if they don't want you there). In SL, it's MY LAND - MY RULES. The basics of laws in the host country for the most part come from common law and there is a "freedom of movement" respresented in all of their laws Public highways and "right of ways" as exsamples. You seem to be more in the Asian line of thought that does not include these freedoms. It is the difference between having a SL turn into a limited series of small rooms or a place to roam and explore. Hope you have fun on your land as you are not welcome on mine! Will not ban you but will freeze and eject you if caught on it as is my right as stated, ah no reason given |
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Veritas Kennedy
Super Senior Member
Join date: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 400
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07-06-2006 20:10
Kick all members created after X date.
Kick all members that are less then X days old. Private chat channel for all authorized users Notification of system owner when an authorized user usses the system Logging Visitors and there durration on the property (Possibly location would be a +) Message of the Day set by owners when an authorized user is detected Greeting message to new people detected (with or w/ "goody bag" Cage Mechanism Authorized members adding other members onto the "Allowed Access List" Authorized members setting Music and Movie URL if permission is given And that is the Only Real features I could think for a parcel security system, (and Yes I am aware alot of them seem like extras, and they are) |
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Snakeye Plisskin
Registered User
Join date: 8 Apr 2005
Posts: 153
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07-06-2006 23:37
Autoban anyone who has no payment info.
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Lewis Nerd
Nerd by name and nature!
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 3,431
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07-06-2006 23:45
I don't understand this whole "automatic ban" thing. In most civilised parts of the world, you are innocent until proven guilty, so why do SL residents seem to want to do something different? It's no different to sitting on your front porch and shooting anyone that walks or drives past just in case theres a possibility that at some unspecified time in the future they may break into your house.
So why are people banned and ejected simply for wandering close to somewhere that they didn't even know they were supposed to avoid? Even on private property, you have no right to attack someone simply for ringing your doorbell. I have on many times been bounced simply for flying near something when I had no intention of stopping. Not only is that disruptive, but if you're in a vehicle you can often lose that vehicle by the bounce, and if you don't remember where it was, with no-copy vehicles you can lose some serious cash too. Anything that makes my avatar do something without my permission is, to me, greifing. Lewis _____________________
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