Have the sweatshops found us?

Ok. I believe this to all be a scam or a joke. I was just contacted by someone acting in the same manner. Who picked me how? I dunno. I am in my house working on some god awful shoes talking to a friend, and received this IM out the blue. The person referred to me as sir the whole time. Asked about getting money from Money trees because they dont want to be forced into dancing, and about buying alnd to get money. Etc. The whole thing smelled fake as fake can get.

Copycat, maybe. You read about in the forums, and then decide to do it as a joke. Or, figuring it might get money from sympathetic types, as a scam.

Initial case could have been for-real. But I dunno. Eyes open.

I received the same thing - a notecard in poorly written English asking the exact same thing, and talking about money trees and not wanting to have to dance anymore. Ordinarily I would help someone, but the whole thing seemed like a scam from the beginning to end.

sweatshops in jessie.. is it upon us?

Stop to sell sweat in boxes!

I'm just waiting on baited breath to find out the what the official Prok-tolly label will be for this new group!

My money is on 'Sweaty Icky-ology'

Discuss....

Anshe, I respect your views here but this approach is like treating a bullet wound with a band-aid. The Wall Marts of the world are a major part of the problem. The answer, at least the United States' role in the issue, is to bring down the trade deficit. This holds true for much of Europe as well. The practice of operating sweatshops only increases as the trade deficit swells. Regrettably, reversing this practice would cause some pain in the short term but if we continue to allow things to operate as they are you will see generational acceptance of living conditions that include being a slave to the sweatshop. Much like welfare has become in the U.S.

Nationalism is not protectionism and the major powers need to become a little more nationalistic if they are going to solve these problems. I can only speak with a fair knowledge of the U.S. but we have become a service economy relying on China and other third world countries for most of our goods. Nothing will change unless we reverse that trend. Naturally, it cannot be turned around completely but this dependence on Wall Mart's low prices selling goods that are produced by essentially slave labor is not heading in the right direction.

BTW - I pick on Wall Mart but Target and the rest of them are all pretty much alike. Once business finds that the American public only pays lip service to slogans like, "Buy American," they know it is time to exploit the weak in other countries.

My head hurts.

[SOAPBOX]
1. Capitalism is not the root of all evil.
2. You have to judge pay rates by local standards.
3. Gaming mills are not operated by multinational corporations.
[/SOAPBOX]

Gaming mills do not add anything to SL, in fact they siphon off money, use up resources and strain the system, skew the statistics and take the fun out of it. (Tired of waiting fo the login queue?)

Steps must be taken to prevent SL new user incentives from being used by gaming mills.

For example, a rule that says that first land can only be sold back to Linden for the $512 paid for it, and cannot be sold on the open market. (Or at the very least, a long waiting period.)

End loop.

Buster

Restart loop

Why? Who are you penalizing more by implementing more rules? And why on earth would Linden want that land back. It would be like Section 8 housing for SL. Ugh!!!!

Waiting period would be better. First land is for **** NEW USERS **** so that they can get started. Not for gaming mills.

It must be fixed so that flipping log-ins isn't positive cash flow. Otherwise Linden billing department will be swamped with new accounts with same-day cancellations, and we're all stuck in the login queue.

If you were required to hold first land for 30 days before selling it, then that would require a minimum investment of US$20. First land can be flipped for, say, L$3000 average, less L$500 initial investment, that's L$2500, + the L$1000 signup + $5000 bogus referral, L$8500 @ 250 = $34 - $20 = $14. Less profit, takes longer.

Otherwise I suspect Linden will see a growing number of alt sign-on/referral-bouns/first-land-flip/cancel. Not good for ANYBODY (except the gaming mills).

Buster

Thanks, Buster. I'm not going to lose sleep over a 30 day waiting period to sell first land. I do not want to see Linden being in a position to buy back and resell newbie land over and over, though.

I dont think "buying American made goods", is the final answer.

The largest problems that I see as far as people being forced to work harder for less...

Gateway, Dell, Emachines, Compaq, etc..

These have destroyed the computer industry.

Considering broadband internet is expensive no matter where you are, the cost to get and maintain a computer plus the costs of the game itself, the margin is very, very thin if any at all in the big picture. It is obvious that profit can be made but the number of people raking in the money isn't that many.

Got to also keep in mind, in China, almost everyone works in a "sweatshop" like environment. I mean, come on, the government sets up brothels around Hong Kong and forces young girls to have operations then put into prostitution to harvest foregn currancy. Somehow running around on a game trying to make money doesn't sound too terrible compared to that.

No offense, but you have got to be kidding. Should we go back to the pre Compaq days when the best computer the average homeowner could afford was a Comodore 64 (128 if you really had coin) or a Trash-80(TRS)? Or not have the companies that gave IBM serious competition when their XT's cost $2000+?

Very intresting read. So many sides to one story.

Im not going to use big words, and Im not going to use endless paragraphs. Im going to tell you this plain, and simple. Im old, I've played them all. From Gamestorm Darkness Falls text based, to EQ, Shadowbane, DAOC, Lineage 1 and II, more than I care to list. Its happened in all of them, I dont care what your overview of the world is, your politics, your thoughts on your neighbors. if the "Farmers" come here, it will change your second life.

Anshe is so very, very, right. The big money makers beware, they will decend on you like flies on shit. They will take what you have learned and exploit it to no end. If there is a loop hole that has gone unseen, they will find it. You think they cant do it because it takes high end computers, and broadband to do it ? Who do you think made the machine your playing on? "Buy American"? ever been in the service of the US ? Gone overseas ? If so what did you come home with ? The highest tech stuff you could get your hands on cause it costs 30 times as much back home ? I laughed at half the things posted here. NO, Im not a flamer or a ... whatever you wanna tag it. Im old and wise and know what I see.

The "farmers" bosses will look at things, such as ... hair ... clothes ... vehicles ... and everything else that makes a Linden. They will turn to their workers (farmers) and say "make this, and make it better, and do it by tomorrow, or your fired". And some things will get done, and some will be fired. And life will go on.

I hope I dont get in trouble for this example, but I'll use Linage II. That WAS a great game, full of fun and adventure. There were many, many ways to become rich and powerful. Then the "farmers" came. They raped and pilaged the lands and the things people loved to do. They didnt do it out of hatred, not at first. They did it because they were able to feed their families. They were good at it. Then the general public saw what was happening and turned on them. PvP took on a whole new meaning. There were "clans" that formed to kill them off, so they in turn made their own "clans".

Way to much to say, I'll not bore you any longer. Pay heed to Anshe's words. Although I personally, will not welcome them with open arms. I see the "farmers" as an end to what Ive considered, my greatest gaming experience to this day

I to think that all good things come to an end, but hope it later than sooner. And you are right about the high technology and the low cost of it over there, hence sweatshops.

the naivete of this ... position? ... has boggled my mind for days. it still boggles my mind.

there are people in korea, china, india, and japan who could probably write sl, if they had the capital to start it up. these people are already smart. no small number of them could probably code circles around the average sl scripter and ll programmer. and you want to know what? they are the people who do the farming of the online games. why? because it puts food on the table. it's demeaning and it's "labor intensive" and it's exploitive, but it keeps your family alive.

almost all of us who are on sl have enough discretionary income to play around in sl. in korea there are whole families that have commited suicide because death is better than the pain of living in abject poverty. and these families aren't some poor country hicks failing to make it in the big city; the mothers and fathers of these families are often college educated. this isn't a rare event in korea; it barely registers in the newspapers anymore because it's so common. it doesn't air in korean tv news unless it's in a special report.

following the topic of sweatshops with the topic of how internet addiction makes people smarter is quite a non sequitur.

i'm not going to tell you to not buy sweatshop items. nor am i going to tell you buy american. there simply isn't a good answer.

but at least have the decency to pretend the problem isn't even there, rather than trivialize is as some minor issue like internet addiction.

if they coded first land to be flagged as first land, then sell it back for the same price... then other newbies could buy first land from other newbies, and the software would keep track of whether or not a person could buy the plot. then no one would need to manually keep track of first land. this would require that first land not be joinable or subdividable.

I met one of these people a few days ago in similar circumstances; "she" had walked up to a money tree and was asking how to buy one, so I went & found out and brought her to point of sale for same only to then have to patiently explain that a money tree was not a source of harvestable cash for its owner, quite the opposite. She then gave me the spiel about working 12 hour shifts in China and being required to earn 500L per shift or be fired. That was the first I'd seen or heard about this so as an experiment I lent "her" 100L and spent a couple of hours trying to show "her" how to play SLingo. That's the last I heard of this particular avatar and if she ever pays back my loan or says thanks I will certainly post that hot news here.

Although ToS precludes identifying these people by name, perhaps LL might be interested in tracking this practice by taking names of avatars who have identified *themselves* as being paid players.

though i think this kind of statistic would be interesting... what would be the point?

Martha Stewart gets outta prison...potential sweatshop workers come to SL. Coincidence? hmmmmm...........

Exactly. If what happened in Asheron Call is going happen in Second Life then what we can expect in SL is that each and every popular item will be ripped off and sold for 20% of the original. I can very well imagine some Indian college student with one long list of items given by their boss that they copy one by one. Somebody will be texture specialist who is good at finding fitting texture in all those pirate copied texture library CDs (oh?! familiar to somebody here?). Somebody else is specialist at copy your prim structure. One third person, maybe one of one hundred thousand computer students in India, reprograms your LSL script in no time and even avoid the bugs of the original. Then when the cloning is done the product might look better than yours and will be sold for cheap. Unlike yours it will come with 24/7 customer support by friendly, patient and attentative people.

This will be fantastic news for everybody who buy L$ at GOM or relies on stipend money: you will get more product and better product for less money

Everybody else might be forced to either innovate very very very fast or build special brand that people are willing to buy just because of the name.

Two things:

First, I think you'll see people learning via the internet before you see this.

Education is much more valuable then pixel goods on SecondLife. Why go to a classroom when you can learn for %20 on the dollar from some much smarter guy in China or India?

The worldwide market for education is trillions of dollars. The world wide market for Secondlife is chump change.

Secondly, the problem is you need a team to do something like that.

Teams cost more than a single developer who can do marketing material (english language skills), marketing strategy, and product development all rolled up in one.

You have to be pretty clever to survive in SL. Strong english skills and strong technical skills doesn't work for some company that is try to sell things for 20 cents that cost a 1$.

Mathematically, it all seems obvious, but the practical world doesn't end up like that. Trust me, I wish it would, or *I* would go hire these people in india and china to do all this work for me.

You can you know, it's not that hard.

I still think it is all a lame scam.

Yes, it obviously is. I get people begging for L$ all the time.

Wish it was against the TOS to beg for L$..

However, the larger question is interesting.

It doesn't make any sense. The reason games like EQ are so easy to exploit for cash is that they allow an unlimited infusion of new cash and items with time being the only limiting factor.

Every creature is essentially a magic money machine. An endlessly renewing resource.

I don't see any similar money supply in SL.

Yes, thank you. This is the crux of the issue.

In order for these companies to make a mint off of SL, they're going to need a REAL product, not 50 copies of the Super Leet Mega Sword.

It takes a slight amount of literacy and a mouse in order to level up in Everquest. In SL, you have to know the tools (scripting, building, texturing), and then you have to spend time, unprofitable time, making your items. And then you need a place to sell it, which more often than not COSTS money. Then you need to make a name for yourself. Then you need a customer base. And so on.

Even if you're straight up copying items, it'll bite you in the ass when your customers IM you asking for help and all you're getting is broken English and have zero knowledge of the product. Word spreads fast in SL, it's still a small town.

I still maintain the position that Second Life, as it is today, is sweatshop-impervious.

I've yet to see an example here that proves me wrong.

LF