Have the sweatshops found us?

As some of you are probably aware, other MMO* titles over the years have had to deal with an influx of actual sweatshops in third-world contries. These sweatshops force young, underpaid workers to play games like Everquest, not for enjoyment, but solely for the purpose of harvesting gold to be traded out and items to be eBay'ed. It's never been a problem here since there's no simple "treadmill" for earning money and items.
Last night, however, I had a disturbing experience. A girl at a telehub asked me to help her buy land in very broken English. After struggling for a while to communicate how to use "land for sale" on the map, I could tell she was having trouble and she was in distress. Finally, she blurts something like, "Please to be helping me! If I don't buy land in 3 days, my boss will fire me!"
At first I was like, "You're kidding me, right?" Nope.
She said she was Chinese and she was quite serious that she needed to by land but she was totally clueless on SL or how to use it. After struggling for a while longer I thought, "Anshe!"
Now, before I go any further, I'd like to ask PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THIS WORLD CAN WE NOT MAKE THIS THREAD A FLAMEWAR ABOUT ANSHE! PRETTY PLEASE?! WITH SUGAR ON TOP?! Ok, thanks.
So, I'm only aware of Anshe because of all the free press she gets in these forums, but I contacted her and asked if she would help. She teleported us both to her location and quickly she and the girl began talking to eachother in Chinese. There wasn't much for me to do any more and they were pretty busy talking so I left. I assume Anshe helped this poor girl get things straightened out but, in looking back on the event, it disturbed me DEEPLY.
Has anyone else had run-ins of this nature? Is anyone else aware of this kind of attempted brute force money extraction taking place here? It seems like something that merits the community's attention.
And before the accusations start flying, I am not an alt for Anshe and I've never met her before last night. I ask again, that we keep this serious and not turn this into an opportunity to talk sh*t about Anshe. Regardless of how busy she was she helped me and that girl last night.

Persig

Good job. You probably just got the girl fired.

Would be great if Anshe could clarify what the problem really was. Would suck if people in other, less free, countries were being threatened to someohow perform or make money on SL or suffer serious consequences.

I hope it was just either an elaborate prank, or a communication failure. Otherwise, that is indeed disturbing.

If people were being forced to make money in SL under the threat of RL harm, that would be very bad.

If someone is hiring people IRL to do a job in SL, and the employee does not perform, well then their job should indeed be threatened.

Ya this is a really difficult debate. It sounds like this girl's worst fear is losing her job. So what would the solution be? Shut down sweatshops thereby making this girl...lose her job?

Violence on the other hand would be a different story, though I think we are equally helpless to do anything for her in that case as well.

It's just a sad situation

From the sound of it, this girl was already employed by this "boss" of hers. She said he had loaded SL a few days ago and then put her on the vague and undirected task of making him money by buying land here. I don't think it was her job, but she was quite clearly in real distress. All the cultural subtleties were consistent (ie. she called herself a stupid worthless girl, etc.) so I'm pretty sure she was serious. It wasn't entirely clear but I'm not sure if it was the job she was originally hired to do...

Persig

And if there are offshore sweat-shop labor entering SL, money laundering schemes will soon follow. Hey, they may already be operating inWorld already.

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Ugh. This is gonna make me cry

Irrespective of whether this situation is bonafide or not, I wonder if Linden Lab has considered this scenario, and what policies there are, if any.

This is indeed troubling.

I have often joked on IRC about the many "escort" services being manned by unfortunate sweatshop workers, only because it seemed a very remote possibility that such a thing could be true.

It doesn't seem as though an organized effort is currently in place, although perhaps this is a glimmer of a future problem. I think that successful land baroning requires significant skill and savvy, so hopefully it won't be profitable in the longterm to attempt sweatshop style exploitation of SL.

Thanks for bringing this up.

You're welcome. I agree with you. I don't think this girl's boss has any clue how complex it is to actually earn money in this game whether you're into land or content creation. Optimistically, I'm hoping this will remain the case so sweatshops will realize there's no easy way to capitalize here and leave us alone.

Persig

In all accuality, there is very little, if nothing that LL can do. If this really was the case, then more than likely the actual people behind the screen can't be tracked, and I doubt LL would be willing to relay that information, since that opens up a nice big can of worms.

It's a sad situation indeed, but the minute RL money could be made here, SL's innocence went out the door, and as long as the promise of money to be made is here, the situation, IMHO, will only get worse.

Communications have been made to LL concerning the possibility ofmoney laundering via. SL.

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I have considered outsourcing many SL related tasks. I beleive the possibility exists to do this both profitably and humanely.

SL, unlike other online games, has no way to "mine" for loot. Any outsourcing a business person would do here would be for a skilled position. This presents a challenge to the employer, what is to keep the employee from creating an SL account on their own and going into business for themselves?

I may be wrong, but I beleive most people with the required skills to be efficient to outsource to, would have the ability to connect to SL themselves. The only real exception I can think of would possibly be those hired to help in the sex or hospitality industry.

And?

I certainly agree that this experience was very troubling, but where is the economic return here. Even if you could do escorting, BDSM, or whatever else on a massive scale, the market would determine the upper end of Lindens you could charge. Let's say its 1500 per hour (I hope I am not displaying gross ignorance of what a high price really is here). That is $7.50 or so on the market. You still have to pay the escort, overhead of the account for each player, hardware, broadband line. Yes, given costs in some areas of the world, you could still make some profit, but we are talking one clueless business person given the very large margins you can make in so many other businesses.

Again, what ever people may think of what the land barons do here, these people are very savy business minds that you are not going to be able to exploit in a sweat shop fashion. Normal building and scripting can be profitable, but again they require a base talent and the profits just don't rise to sweat shop margins.

The story is unfortunate, but I suspect the boss is clueless.

EQ and WoW are prime candidates for this kind of thing precisely because the activity is routine and breaks Eula. It may very well be that because all this would be technically legal, it automatically prevents the margins from rising to an expoitive level. The remedy ironically would be in game competition.

The way SL economy works, you're not going to be able to exploit a sweatshop. LL effectively controls what maximum amount of money can be made from the game.

maybe anshe can tell us what happened.

How do they do that?

LL controls the total number of L$. As long as there isn't an easy way around this through means to pay for SL content directly via real money you can't scale up any scheme.

but that can make it easier to game it other ways.

Mmmm, well... welcome to the real world!

This is something I have been waiting for since one year. And, yes, it is beginning of the end of Anshe Chung, Chip Midnight, Blue Burke and many big money making names you know. Because virtual reality know no borders or trade barrier.

In nice and clean suburb of the western country it is easy to ignore the hard condition majority of people on this planet face. Now reality encroaches upon us and upon you. Reality of thousands and millions of hungry people who will eventually invade this space when they learn about its opportunities. People who are as hungry as I was one mere 10 years ago.

You are afraid? Right so. I am too because I know I will eventually loose. This is why I have not give up RL job because I know that it is only question of time until people find their way to SL who will work harder for very little money. The day will arrive when through Second Life the money will flow from the rich country to the poor countries.

But please keep in mind that it is not the poor countries people's fault that their RL situation is so hard. We should not allow us call the "sweatshop" something bad, not let us fall victim of bad habit of disrespecting those who struggle hard for better life. You all know Anshe Chung and you know how the poor situation of my own family in China was one motivator for me to work hard in this space. The "sweatshops" will come, yes, and I admire the people who will work in those sweatshops. As much as I admire the hard working American pioneer, the inventor and the people in one sweatshop called "Linden Lab".

As such I am welcoming our new friends from China, from India and Russia and from Africa. I am looking forward to see how Second Life will allow more and more people catch up, to sweat hard and advance to one middle class life.

And our new friend last night? She is newbie and still clueless, she struggle with language and it is hard for her. It is job for her, yes, and there is fear and pressure of failure. This make her have something in common with our friends working at Linden Lab who also have pressure to meet their job target, or with you when you work at your daytime job. Be glad if you have enough money and can enjoy Second Life as consumer, as player.

The "sweatshop" is justice and opportunity for the really poor. It is also opportunity for us in the wealthy countries: opportunity to help and be part of one exciting development project, to create one cyberspace with opportunity for all people on this planet, where knowledge and money flow freely. The harsh reality of the poor 80% of this planet will arrive now, we can no longer close eyes because they will be among us, no border, no immigration officer nor army will be there to "protect" us. Let's help them, because those who are more hungry than us deserve their chance to sweat and to succeed.

*sigh

This doesn't clarify very much.

What is the difference between "sweatshopping" and "outsourcing"? Does the need to have access to broadband, a high-end computer, and skills make a difference? In wages, treatment, end-goals, etc.?

Well stated Anshe, though you overlook that "sweatshops" are not viewed as opportunites for the people working in them by those already living in prosperous countries. They are more viewed as ways for rich corporations to exploit human beings.

But I do see your point. Without the "sweat shop" work for such little pay, what would these people do? Starve...

I just wish that "sweatshops" could be forced to pay thier employees far more, with far better working conditions.

Indeed, with the amount of press about SL being a way to make such good sums of real money, I guess those of us that are suprised by this turn of events (myself inculded) shouldn't be. It is a real opportunity for those in poor countries, and a real chance to exploit those in repressed countries.

the difference may be one of whether or not one approves of it or not?

having come from a poor family in a very poor part of the world, i can tell you the difference between working 16-20 hours a day in the dirt and 16-20 hours a day in front of a computer (or sewing machine or machine press) is non-trivial. as ugly as it seems my family got out of the dirt because my grandmother and her generation worked in sweatshops (or worse). when you're poor the difference between "sweatshop" and "opportunity" is very small.