Open Spaces Announcement & Talk with M and Jack Linden

@Carrie: We're reading all of the posts, many hundreds already. I have a long list of questions taken from the posts so far, and will work through those to make sure that either they get answered here, or they get added to the knowledgebase FAQ. But those answers need to be the right ones, so if we seem slow in replying it's only because we're being thorough and volume of feedback is very high.

I think maybe its time those of us that can afford to decided to downgrade to free accounts and abandon land.

Maybe a hit to the bank balance will make them see the light.

For a minute there, I was glad you were giving the OS owners who were using them according to original intent a nod, by scaling the tier back down for them. Then I realised you were bringing their primcount down to 750. So they would have to pay the same tier as for 1/4 of a full sim, for 750 prims ?

I'll admit, I always used any void sim I lived on in a residential way. But it was very light use, with hardly ever more than a couple avatars present at any one time and only a few scripts, tops. Now I am totally for the creation of an intermediate product to satisfy the current demand, but the "Openspace Gone Homestead" product, such as repriced, not only will not offer more to match the much higher price (i.e., more prims) but will also have to undergo restrictions as well, on avatar count. So essentially, you're not really backing down on the repricing, and you're still going to enforce restrictions on the Openspaces Gone Homesteads ?

I think, to be satisfied, owners who have been consistently using their openspaces for open area with never any resident on it shouldn't have to pay $75/mo, but less and that the Homesteads should have a slightly higher primcount, around 5000, and also exist by clusters of 2 or 3 only on a server, with an avatar count allowed per sim of maybe 35.

I know, most of us using these to live on or even run a store generally only have a few avatars around, but for the odd occasional event, it would be nice to not be restricted to just 20. Higher avatar count would hardly impact the other openspaces co-existing on the same server, as the chances that all of them would be at top avatar usage are nill. I've been around on the grid, I think I can say I have a fair idea of how these are being used by the majority.

Add to that possibly the ability to aquire one of these Homesteads without having to be a full sim owner, unless that would bring about an expansion of land mass you guys can't keep up with, which would be understandable.

I otherwise don't consider at all this new announcement to be bringing much change. What I simply can't get over, is that when you break down the numbers (set up cost, monthly tier, prim count, avatar count...) if you get anything else than a full sim, you end up paying more for less, almost twice, to be precise, AGAIN. The reason we were so happy with the changes you made earlier this year was that you guys were finally pricing things FAIRLY!

Along with someone else who stated his opinion somewhere earlier in this thread, I am still suspicious of two things:
-the fact that you doubled the primcount on voids that supposedly were just to be used to sail or fly through, as if people would care for double the number of trees or more underwater decorating props.
-you suddenly allowed sim owners to place these voids anywhere within perimeter of their estate without the obligation for them to have to border a full sim. Why would you put an ocean or forest in the middle of nowhere, if you intended them be used solely for landscaping/sailing purposes for residents to enjoy within an estate ? It just doesn't make sense.

The supposed "amendment" in your changes plan is just a crumb and an insult. I don't think any of you intends to work on this more, and that this is probably all you're gonna "concede", but you'll definitely have to work on another proposal before I give you my trust back.

If they admit any of the responsibility, it would leave them open to legal action for the recovery of money. They are open to it as it is, but admitting responsibility would make such cases very easy to win.

This is..pathetic at best!..YOU will decide what scripts we can/cannot run in January...LMAO!!!...well don't you think maybe we should know that before you screw us over again and give us one product and then actually allow us to keep another!!!..

Sorry folks..but..this is just so wrong....you do not sell a product, change the product, up the price, take back some of the product and then say you're going to decide in January what the consumer actually ends up with.

Jack..repeat after me..slowly...

DO YOU WANT FRIES WITH THAT SIR??

you will be needing that soon..if LL has any sense left at all!..and I've doubts on that one

Here is the link to the Nurien vid on YouTube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoQh4R1-Vjs


And this is what they say on the mycosm web site....

"We are in relentless pursuit of creating a compelling virtual world platform, then letting you enjoy it for free in Mycosm®. Your own 3D world, free. Create your own unique world and share it with friends online. Play games, share media, chat, make money, all in breathtaking 3D graphics."

http://www.mycosm.com

So not addressing the people who are against this policy .... just the ones who have questions about what will happen after you impliment it ?

you guys suck its official

Ignoring the thing will not make it go away ... Thats what landed us in this situation in the first place ...Dialog .... two or more partys talking about a subject .

By ignoring us your just pouring fule on the fire jack .

Im pretty sure your under orders here and would like to say what you really think....Break ranks ....stand up and tell whoever it is that this policy will be the thing that kill's off the user base

Its a big step to take and not the corprate line ..... But Jack, Some of us know what we are talking about here and you know that.

Make a stand jack .... Save the day .

On the face of it, that announcement seems pretty fair.
There *is* a clear distinction between OpenSpace and Homestead.

Ok, none of us want to pay more money than we were, and LL are pretty much at fault for creating the OpenSpace programme with insufficient controls and restrictions to prevent them being used other than as they intended (I mean, are they really that surprised that people took advantage of them for residential use?), but they clearly need to do something and making a distinction between OpenSpace and Homestead does seem to be a compromise of sorts, albeit one that leaves most of us paying more.

Whether or not I feel I can afford to continue to rent my beautiful little 7000 sqm island with 1640 prims on an OpenSpace sim with only one neighbour, which I love so much, especially in this time of financial difficulty, is a completely different debate.

I have to say, I think Linden Labs are going to find themselves with a lot of spare server capacity once this kicks in as many people are just going to stop renting. But that doesn't detract from the fact that differentiating between OpenSpace and Homestead *is* a good idea.

Having said all that, I think the price hikes and new restrictions are pretty outrageous and stink of "Bait and Switch"

Bear in mind also that there were substantial openspace sim abandonments in the wake of your first unwise announcement.

If you want to be though of as a responsible and ethical company (the kind of company that other businesses might get involved with), then I can see 2 things that you absolutely need to do.

1) In the future, NEVER annouunce a major policy change as a fait accompli like you did this one - instead, put it up with a forum like as something under consideration, to foster a dialog and get your resident's opinions without causing a firestorm that damages your credibility.

2) You need to restore any abandoned openspace sim for no cost. Otherwise, you're STILL punishing your paying customers for your bad decision that's been revised.

One other thought for consideration - to help keep malls & clubs from being set up on openspaces (and possibly homesteads also), can you disable money transfers between avatar and object on those lands?

I wish I had the web reference handy. But when I looked up the Blue Moon stuff last week, it was clear that they intended for the content to be created by firms for the users, not by the users.

Firelight

Mang, I appreciate the feedback and ideas. The numbers and products announced are, we believe, the right ones from our perspective as a business, from the value/cost angle and so on. We have to reflect the costs of providing that Homestead level product fairly so that we can scale to support it.

Is it just me, or is jack Linden jusr answering the questions he feels comfortable answering and avoiding the tricky ones, and where is M, obviously he was talking bull when he said he would be joining jack here.

Oh come off it Phil all a solicitor would have to do is go through the land sales and rentals forum threads, the blogs where people pointed out what was happening and some office hour transcripts. The way they were being used became custom and practice. An apology isn't going to hurt their cause from a legal perspective, all the evidence is already in the open.

and when they are all abandoned LOL then what.

its called showing a pressence with out stepping on ones ..... well you get the picture.

I wanna see the reply to this question

Never mind that we messed up, used the products exactly like our Customers did, and even worse, and we will never say "SORRY" or claim any repsonsibility.

For those saying LL can't apologize, it sure can. Jack can apologize, and then have his employment ended for saying something "not authorized". Of course, in LL's case, this too would be subterfuge, as they would tell Jack to apologize, "Fire Jack", and give him a new name so he never really did lose his job.

Yes, I believe LL is capable of such deception, they've proven time and again, they aren't to be trusted, don't believe it, just ask someone about BUB and where he's been lately!

mmm..that's because you have a lot of very upset customers right now, and rightly so. You know people WANT to like SL and WANT to like the Lindens but you give us every reason to feel cheated and ignored.

Can you at least clarify this point for us as you are now online...will you even consider adding another option for greater use and more prims, but less than a full sim?

Is this really the final answer on o/s or will you cut us some slack here?

(ps - give 'M' a nudge - I think he fell asleep)

Jack, at this point your answers are really in realtion to only the things that are simple, and not the true nature of the issue being thrown out there.... Rather than just being a simple 66% increase for open space sims....again for reasons taht are not jsutifiable...remember?... "go get the people that ARE abusing the system...dont kill everyone for it"....

You answers are just you giving us a warm feeling..kinda like pissin into a fan... it still stinks no matter how warm you get.

So here is a question for you...and I expect total duplicity as befits Linden Labs utterly transparent display of hidden agendas to be reflected in your answer..if you answer....

Why, when there was a huge protest about the 66% tier increase on open space sims, are you now offering a 66% increase on a REDUCED SERVICES sim?

Simple enough question.... Show us your REAL intent here JAck....stop treating us like idiots..are you profiteering on a high value product??? everything else you have said has been so utterly blase and false...and the proposals display something totally and compeltely different from the stories we are being told.... That I expect either a) no answer at all, or b) something so totally fabiracted and self justified as to be utterly incomprehnsiibly stupid to everone else.

Tag..your it Jack.

Jack- until you let people know the CPu ratios and script limits you can't have us agree about the product. We simply don't know what it is.

We will be alright. We have two mainland campuses and a campus on 10,000m2 of an island. Nova Civis Caledon was very useful to us--no doubt--but we can move/compress/reschedule/etc. NCI is very good at adapting.

Yes, I know, but actually admitting responsibility would leave them absolutely no defense. It could actually encourage people to threaten legal action and force refunds, when they probably wouldn't have considered it.

ok jack you say you are reading all of our post well read this i like this game alot and and i am new to it i dont have alot of$L to spend on it why not make it so you can buy a homested with out haveing to have a full sim i mean i have a paid account and whould like to stay in my own land not on you junk yard you call a mian land lol o well game was fun but seems like a sinking ship can you say titanic? huh and as for my ? in the start of my post atleast let the paid accounts be able to buy a homested just 1 not any more than that i mean that whould be nice and just might just help recover some of the cash you are looking for well cya and hope to see a post from you on this ? i know alot of eps want to see what you say i mean i know alot of users that whould pay the 75 a year to get paid account to beable to own there own homested pice of land

That's a very good point.

Firelight

Answer the tough questions!

Like why won't M meet me head on in a debate on the subject or "high Customer Satisfaction"?

What, is M too busy doing something else, like being fed another line of BS to throw at us by Philip?

Why won't ONE Linden Lab employee ever stand up and say, "BRING IT ON BOB!"? Why are you all just sitting there acting like mindless twits? Doesn't anyone at Linden Lab have ANY RESPECT for your company? Come on Kiddies, Bob wants to play, and wants to play in the BIG BOY POOL!