The Key Question For Linden Lab

CAN I BE BANNED FOR A SECOND LIFE ACTIVITY THAT VIOLATES THE LAW OF A COUNTRY I DO NOT LIVE IN?

Let's take a look at the sequence of events, as reported in the blog:

LL recieves word from the Germans that some adult Avatar was having sex with some child Avatar.
* No mention of where those accounts were located. Both in Germany? None in Germany? Would it matter to LL??
* The accounts were banned immediately.
* AFTER the banning, there were allegations of exchange of pictures of actual children being sexually abuse i.e. child pornography. Are they even related to the same two accounts that were banned?

SO:

LL banned two accounts for a SIMULATION that is illegal in Germany, but is demonstrably in a GREY AREA elsewhere in the world. - depiction of sex with a child. They have not said that the two accounts were from Germany. Where I live, such depictions are not, technically, illegal.

Note: The RL activity is illegal nearly everywhere in the world. The SIMULATION of that activity is ILLEGAL in Germany, but a grey area in much of the world.

SO:

Casino Gambling is illegal where I live. Will I be banned for walking into a casino, and indulging in a SIMULATION of Casino Gambling?

Prostitution is illegal where I live. Will I be banned for using the services of a Second Life Escort? Will the Escort be allowed to stay, but only if she lives in a country where prostitution is legal?

Homosexual intercourse is illegal in many countries. Will homosexuals be banned because a Saudi-Arabian news network shows two male avatars having sex?

CAN I BE BANNED FOR A SECOND LIFE ACTIVITY THAT VIOLATES THE LAW OF A COUNTRY I DO NOT LIVE IN?

That is the key question here folks, and we need an answer to this very soon.

Max

You can be banned for any activity that LL decides they don't want in SL, whether it's legal in your country or not. If you engage in activity that is illigal in your country, even if allowed in SL, you can be in even bigger trouble with your local authorities.

So when will Linden Lab post a list of activities that I can be banned for?

I need to know, before I log back in tonight...

Max

I think there is a BIG distinction between sexual ageplay and gambling etc.

Sexual Ageplay is something that's in my eyes and the eyes of the majority of the community something that's innapropriate. It is to my knowledge the only activity that isn't necasserally illegal but the Lindens have deemed ( and deemed under resident pressure MONTHS AGO ) is innapriopriate and an activity they don't want.

Whilst it appears the Lindens are reacting to an incedent now in actual fact they are mearly carrying out something they said they would do around a year ago.

In early Feb 2006, with the population probably at 200-300,000 ( if that ), ageplay first reared it's ugly head. MANY Residents where appalled that such activities took place and got very vocal on the forums and organised protests etc. (remember smaller population and they where AT LEAST as vocal as the forums are right now ).

Linden Lab then banned ageplay. Obviously, especially with the rapidly growing population, it's easy to keep going underground but in this case it appear Linden Lab had all the evidence they needed to effect a ban. But it is NOT a recent ruling, it's something that Linden Lab have disapproved of for over a year.

Also with ageplay you have the potential for RL peadeophiles to use SL as a communication tool via their roleplay. As such banning it makes a LOT of sense.

- Casinos can't advertise in SL any longer, correct? Will you be banned in you indulge in gambling at one? Not at the present time, I'd guess.

- Prostitution is illegal in most of the US. This will be an interesting topic to watch in SL. However, know that most SL prostitutes are either newbies who aren't that good at it or those who've been around awhile who, more or less, spend the time explaining to customer newbies how to use their newfound "attachments" rather than doing much sexual. From what I've been told, it's really not all that exciting of a scene in either scenario.

- Homosexuals banned in SL? IF that would ever happen (which I highly, seriously doubt), I wouldn't know. I'd be out of the game if there would be any serious discussion of it before it happened.

I don't want to talk about the distinctions. I want to talk about what Linden Lab is going to enforce. This is why the key question is not what is or isn't appropriate, or even what is or isn't LEGAL. The key question is when will Linden Lab tell us what activity they are going to crack down on?

Max

The point I'm making is that ageplay is probably the least appropriate, least approved of activity in SL and one that has the potential to provide a breeding ground for people who will indulge in it in RL. This is clearly unacceptable.

All other activities don't have that depth of valid concern and disapproval.

Also remember this is NOT a new ruling. It's been effectivly banned for around 1 year with no sign of any other rulings.

To be fair to LL, I think they've done fairly well in telling us what they say they're going to "crackdown" on. Copybotting (said they would anyway), casino advertising -- and now ageplay, child porn and underagers in mature zones.

I wish they'd also crackdown just as hard on landbot owners and these griefer clowns who do things like design devices to drain the L$ from your account when you attach them. Last time I heard, fraud and theft were also considered serious crimes. Not as morally reprehensible as child pornography, but still illegal pretty much anywhere in the civilized world.

Perhaps it would make more sense to ban people from countries where the activities in SL are illegal.

In the words of Judge Dredd : "I am the law" - (shouted with a sylvester stalone speech impediment)

LL owns the place - If they feel like banning you , they ban you
the law don't enter into it.

And it's not just the law of the country you live in. it's the law of the country where the company is based. That is why gambling is taking a hit right now. It's not legal in the US

Yes it does work both ways. We Americans are Disguisting Perverts, and you Europeans are Hopeless Degenerate Gamblers

This is of course why I play from my spaceship while observing you earthlings

Never heard of alien abduction anal probes, eh?

If you really and truly cannot figure that out for yourself I guess you should not log on at all tonight.....maybe not tomorrow night either. I think a little maturing is in order before you put yourself in a situation where you could be banned and be completely ignorant as to the reason.

I cannot figure this out for myself. LL keeps changing the rules

I could be completely ignorant of the reason for being banned, not through any lack of maturity, but a lack of communication.

For Example: I did not know sexual ageplay was banned in Feb, 2006. I came across it in many ways and forms when I joined SL, just through casual wandering and the strange things that keywords will pull up on search. And the recent notecard distribution news seems to indicate that LL did a pretty poor job of "banning" sexual ageplay for the past year or so.

The recent Casino (Advertising?) Ban is similar. What exactly is LL's stand on gambling... hard to tell from the blog. We're all supposed to comply with the laws of our local jurisdiction... well my local jurisdiction doesn't mind if I look at unrealistically rendered cartoons of underage people... but LL will toss me from SL if I do.

And yes, I'll log into SL tonight. That line was hyperbole. But I still think the issue is, LL needs to tell us what sort of behavior they are going to enforce.

Max

The gambling thing is purely advertising. There is no ruling that prevents you from making use of gambling facilities in SL just not directly advertising them.

Wanna bet about that?

Oh darn.... it shows...

Morwen.

This is the problem with any service that is globally accessible. The US will automatically assume that everyone has to comply with their rules (that's where the server is located), but some countries don't have any such ban on gambling, or other, more serious crimes. What can they do?

In my opinion, ageplay restrictions are just ridiculous. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't participate in any such event myself. But I respect other peoples' rights to enact a fantasy that doesn't involve any real-world crimes whatsoever. If someone wants to make their avatar appear as a 14 year-old, which is still just a matter of opinion (no graphics can ever carry an "age" property), then it's up to them. So long as no child is being harmed, then the laws that were created to protect children should not apply.

If no child is being involved in any way, then the laws created to protect children should not apply.

I felt that I needed to repeat that. Have we lost track of what these laws were intended to prevent? Why are we criminalizing people now for role-playing a fantasy that may be against the law in one particular country? It's absolutely asinine.

hi max

are you a peado then or what??

lol

anyone inerested in that kind of things hsould be banned. dunno what your moaning about you sicko

If an investigative reporter from any television station video tapes you doing something incredibly embarrassing to LL, and then ambushes the Executive VP of LL with it - you'll likely be banned.

It's not surprising and it's that simple and that random.

What could she say after they shoved it in her face? - "Ummm, we identified the users engaged in that activity, scolded them for getting caught and told them to be more discreet about it in the future".

Their reaction is completely understandable. The only thing ridiculous about the whole situation is the way they’re asking us to verify our age.

So you would rather that a real child has to actually get hurt before a paedophile can be caught, because until then they have done nothing wrong?

Introducing a method that could identify and catch real paedophiles before they hurt any real children just isn't worth the tradeoff of asking innocent people to give up just one form of role-play, expressed in just one way? (because as others have said, there's still nothing to stop your grown-up girlfriend or wife dressing up, even making an clearly-adult avatar wearing a costume on SL)

As far as I am aware being a paedophile is not a crime... if they act on RL children, then it becomes a crime. You hang them on forehand... including a big group of paedophiles who controle their feelings 100%.

Morwen.

Agreed.

Mandy C

Gotta love Peggy! lol