First Land is no more
|
Reece Gunawan
.com wannabe, .mobi king
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 413
|
02-20-2007 22:25
From: Dnate Mars I think LL wants out of the land business. I think they make so much more money off of the islands for the amount of work that they place into it, it just makes sense for them to want people to rent from the island owners. It makes billing a lot easier for them, plus they have a much better handle on exactly how much a month they will be taking in. I agree. And in essence, there really is nothing wrong with that. If you go with a well known island broker, what does one really have to fear? For the budding entrepreneur, don't you want the enhanced feature set that enables you better control over your land? All this for half the price of a mainland sim? Unbelievable to say the least! And the $295/month vs $195 is trivial really... How many players stay in SL long enough to realize a larger profit had they dropped $3000+ on a mainland sim vs $1700 on an island?
_____________________
Evil Land Baron  Currently does not own any land 
|
Cristalle Karami
Lady of the House
Join date: 4 Dec 2006
Posts: 6,222
|
02-20-2007 22:26
From: Reece Gunawan You put a lot of work into that reply Cristalle, that is for dang sure That being said, you've quoted several very valid points. It's extremely unlikely land will go down much unless LL intentionally attempts to make such happen... As for investment purposes however, there really is no reason for land to increase in price either seeing as a large portion of those entitled to first land were giving up on it even in late December/January. As for stipends? I wouldn't doubt they're the next thing to go. L300 is insignificant and if 1) they reduced the monthly fee to 5USD/month by eliminating stipends or 2) made no modifications other than eliminating stipends -- I see only the potential for larger profits. People pay real money upfront to buy World of Warcraft -- alot of real money... Now, why should SL necessarily be any different? Heh, thanks Reece. Honestly, there is no way that land prices would sink now that the land is left to the auction bidders with the exception that Linden floods the market with 100 sims PER DAY. Because the usual suspects would be less likely to buy up all the mainland sims at 3k apiece when the daily charges on their credit cards shoot up from 12k-15k to 60k+ a day. I also suspect that stipend is next to go since 300 is next to nothing anyway. LL stands only to gain by eliminating the stipend.
|
Reece Gunawan
.com wannabe, .mobi king
Join date: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 413
|
02-20-2007 22:33
I made myself a few alts back when I first started, just so I could dissociate my "business" account (this one) from my accounts created merely to enjoy SL. More often than not, I find myself transferring the stipends to this account -- 300L is just useless nowadays. I don't like buying junk... If I go into a clothing store, I'll likely buy that nice suit priced at 1,000L+. So, it takes me nearly a month of stipends to buy a single suit? Geez, case in point 
_____________________
Evil Land Baron  Currently does not own any land 
|
Jesseaitui Petion
king of polynesia :P
Join date: 2 Jan 2006
Posts: 2,175
|
02-20-2007 22:57
From: Ylikone Obscure Here is the truth... they can take away firstland, stipend and any other perks from the premium account... BUT people will continue to get premium accounts because people want to OWN land. It is the only way to do so. Sure, you can rent from someone, but then you don't really own it. Just like in RL. People will always have the psychological need to "own" rather than "rent". LL knows this. You don`t need premium to own a PI though.
|
Abraham Attenborough
Registered User
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 96
|
Lindenlabs Are Cheaters
02-21-2007 00:06
lucky lindenlab , poor users.
they fooled us in a very special way. thousands of ppl joined in the last weeks because of TV commercials in several countries: THIS IS THE WORST CHEAT EVER SINCE I AM ONLINE GAMING.
lucky lindenlab filled theyr pockets fine with our money.
|
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
|
02-21-2007 01:22
From: Winter Ventura Those people probably cashed out their lindens fast. Thus lessening the supply of available for purchase lindens. (increasing the value of a $L) Its effect on the supply of Lindens available for sale is when it is up for sale on the Lindex. At that point it increases the supply. The speed at which it goes isn't really relevant. Once it's gone, that doesn't translate to a decrease in supply, it's already had it's effect... remember, the money is simply changing hands between players, it's not disappearing, it's still part of the total money supply, which affects the supply available for sale. The only way to lessen the supply is if the money is removed from the total money supply - via a sink. The effect of cashing out is actually opposite to what you state - ie, you're increasing the supply available for sale, which would decrease the value of the Linden (ignoring for the moment the effect demand has on the price). Overall I don't think this will impact the economy much, first land forms a very small part of the land market (in recent times, it was increasingly so), and an even smaller part of the total market.
|
Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
|
02-21-2007 03:14
First land has allways been subject to availability and LL are well within their rights to withdraw the option offering new players first land. Although they could have handled this allot better than they did, all new players should have read the small print and realised the the option of getting the cheap first land was never gaurenteed.
|
Merlin Maximov
Registered User
Join date: 9 Jul 2006
Posts: 16
|
02-21-2007 03:15
From: Naughty Signals Just wait till LL decides to charge for each and every account with 0 benefits no linden weekly's and lets see how many are happy with that. Hmmm, that would mean that: - there would be fewer alt griefers - the fact that there was no free money would encourage people to learn to build, script etc - It would reduce the problems with minors going into mature areas - it would mean a higher proportion of residents are committed to the world we are all making ... hang on a minute - sounds perfect! Go for it LL!
|
Stephen Zenith
Registered User
Join date: 15 May 2006
Posts: 1,029
|
02-21-2007 03:23
From: Merlin Maximov Hmmm, that would mean that:
- there would be fewer alt griefers - the fact that there was no free money would encourage people to learn to build, script etc - It would reduce the problems with minors going into mature areas - it would mean a higher proportion of residents are committed to the world we are all making
... hang on a minute - sounds perfect! Go for it LL! Yeah, I'm not really seeing a downside either...
|
Azul Wilder
Registered User
Join date: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 87
|
02-21-2007 04:11
I was born in January 29, I went premium on February 10. The only reason why I became premium was to get a free land parcel. I wanted my own little space to have a shop where I could sell my creations and maybe a little place to live. All this with the hope of earning money and in the future buying a bigger plot where expanding. Only 11 days after searching a First Land, every few minutes, the Lindens decide to stop this FL program. I want my money back! I don't need a premium account to buy expensive land. I can pay the tier to a baron. Or renting. I am very angry with this. I feel like betrayed. I was so enthusiastic wih SL... Google is planning to do something very similar to this SL, we will see... I wish these lindens chage the decision, if first land doesn't pay, they should let new people like me getting a first land and new premiums from now not to be able to get that first land. I tell you this is not OK, Lindens refund me.
_____________________
First goes before AW Devices
|
FD Spark
Prim & Texture Doodler
Join date: 30 Oct 2006
Posts: 4,697
|
02-21-2007 04:18
Don't buy land its addictive, you will want more and more 
|
Cortex Draper
Registered User
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 406
|
They should have only allowed 1st land for yearly subscriptions
02-21-2007 05:27
That would have made buying first land with hundreds alts non profitable.
It would have still allowed first land to serve its intended purpose of getting new people on the property ladder quickly (to ensure higher profits for SL)
|
Alazarin Mondrian
Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,549
|
02-21-2007 06:07
Actually, I quite like that suggestion, Cortex. It's also an incentive for people to take out a longer-term investment in SL. Mind you tieing First Land to an annual payment cycle, they'd prolly want to up it from 512 to 1024.
_____________________
My stuff on Meta-Life: http://tinyurl.com/ykq7nzt http://www.myspace.com/alazarinmobius http://slurl.com/secondlife/Crescent/72/98/116
|
Checho Masukami
UnRez it or use a hammer
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 191
|
02-21-2007 06:24
This notice is an insult for those who have premium accounts and still no land. From: someone Google is planning to do something very similar to this SL, we will see... Didn't knew that! Cool. Im a little tired of SL crashes, lags, rare controversial decisions, database issues, zero support and so so. A new world could be a nice change.
|
bjStranger Forager
Registered User
Join date: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 13
|
02-21-2007 06:49
I'd like to add my two cents to this discussion....
I'm OKAY with LL's decision to end the First Land program. I joined SL last November and never did manage to find myself a FL plot. Thankfully while I searched for FL, a kind friend took me under her wing and rented me land in exchange for work.
In my exploration of our SL world and in reading this forum I've learned that parts of SL are tawdry and downright ugly. Chernobyl-like, abandoned-looking areas with half finished buildings and prims littering the landscape. First Land scam artists sucking away what little First Land there was and erecting FOR SALE signs everywhere. Linden Labs had to do *something* about the problem.
I like LL's decision because: - it stops FL scammers in their tracks - it may slow down new subscriptions enough to allow supply & demand to level out a bit - LL may have time to play catch-up and examine/appraise land that's been abandoned - one can still own 512 sq m of land tier-free
|
tristan Eliot
Say What?!
Join date: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
|
02-21-2007 06:57
From: bjStranger Forager - one can still own 512 sq m of land tier-free
Yes but now one is guaranteed to have to pay outrageous prices for that 512 plot of land thanks to bots who will buy up any land LL does sell for a reasonable price that was reclaimed.
|
Rockwell Ginsberg
Boss
Join date: 3 Oct 2006
Posts: 560
|
02-21-2007 07:01
From: tristan Eliot Yes but now one is guaranteed to have to pay outrageous prices for that 512 plot of land thanks to bots who will buy up any land LL does sell for a reasonable price that was reclaimed. I think people often overestimate the effect of bots in the land market. There is only one person that I know using a land buying bot, maybe two. These bots aren't turned on 24/7. If the bots don't get the cheap land, a fast human will. You have thousands of people looking at the land listings everday, and all looking for a deal. You're more likely goign to get beat to a deal by a human, than by a bot. Plus, as we've already discussed, tier quickly adds up to more than the purchase price of the land.
|
tristan Eliot
Say What?!
Join date: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 494
|
02-21-2007 07:08
From: Rockwell Ginsberg I think people often overestimate the effect of bots in the land market. There is only one person that I know using a land buying bot, maybe two. These bots aren't turned on 24/7. If the bots don't get the cheap land, a fast human will. You have thousands of people looking at the land listings everday, and all looking for a deal. You're more likely goign to get beat to a deal by a human, than by a bot. Plus, as we've already discussed, tier quickly adds up to more than the purchase price of the land. I'm not that familiar with the bots or how they function, but i do know that LL has effectivly broken the land search listings making it impossible to actually get to a good land deal unless you spend your entire time teleporting from region to region looking for land that was just put for sale. On top of that they have guarranteed that in order to get a decent price for land you will have to bid in an auction for it. It will be interesting to see just how many people they have priced out of land ownership in SL.
|
Alazarin Mondrian
Teh Trippy Hippie Dragon
Join date: 4 Apr 2005
Posts: 1,549
|
02-21-2007 07:16
From: tristan Eliot ...It will be interesting to see just how many people they have priced out of land ownership in SL. Quite a few, I should imagine. SL is rapidly becoming a rich kid's toy and a conman's tool :\
_____________________
My stuff on Meta-Life: http://tinyurl.com/ykq7nzt http://www.myspace.com/alazarinmobius http://slurl.com/secondlife/Crescent/72/98/116
|
Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
|
02-21-2007 07:20
From: Rockwell Ginsberg Plus, as we've already discussed, tier quickly adds up to more than the purchase price of the land. Does it? Premium ($6/month) + buy 512m² (L$7000 or $26.5) = $32.5 Premium for 6 months with first land = $36 6 months is longer than you've been around if you started in October 2006; "quickly" is a very relative term.
|
Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
|
02-21-2007 07:24
It is disappointing, while not currently interested in owning land, the possibility was there. In my case, I don't mind putting money into the game, so the Premium route is fine for me, I happily buys a few Lindens each week, beyond my stipend. There are good arguments on both sides of the topic, but I do think it could be handled better, either grandfathering in current Premium members, perhaps with an expiration on the option say 30 days. It is regrettable that some used First Land as a profiteering opportunity, but not surprising considering some of the hype published over the money made in game by some, and considering SL is populated by Humans, all Human vices and virtues will be represented. And greed is at the top of the list of vices, and for some, virtues. That being said, I don't agree the Creators had no Control over this. From something as simple as limiting Alts perhaps, to who knows what else, this didn' happen overnight, and to just pull the plug is not Kosher. I still intend to be a Premium Memeber for the foreseeable future, but i would advise anyone who does sign up. don't go for the yearly option. Keep it month to month. The savings is not worth the trouble if things go south and you want to cut and run.
_____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com
|
Rockwell Ginsberg
Boss
Join date: 3 Oct 2006
Posts: 560
|
02-21-2007 07:27
From: Kitty Barnett "quickly" is a very relative term. So is "too expensive"
|
Curtis Conacher
Registered User
Join date: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 62
|
02-21-2007 07:46
As mentioned previously the best way for LL to safeguard first land would be to impose a minimum retainer on the land (2 months). This would prevent unscrupulous people from creating a verified alt, buying first land and selling it to themselves in game, because the minimum 2 month land tier would make their efforts profitless.
|
Fade Languish
I just build stuff...
Join date: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,760
|
02-21-2007 07:57
From: Curtis Conacher As mentioned previously the best way for LL to safeguard first land would be to impose a minimum retainer on the land (2 months). This would prevent unscrupulous people from creating a verified alt, buying first land and selling it to themselves in game, because the minimum 2 month land tier would make their efforts profitless. They probably considered it, but this would probably fall under "We have discussed many methods to ensure that First Land is used as intended but have decided that there is no way to do this without significantly impacting on resident freedoms". Restricting the ability to resell they probably consider to be impacting on the freedom of residents to do as they wish with their land, which includes selling it when they need/want to. Consider, what if you decided after a month you didn't want to continue having land? You couldn't sell it for a month - you'd have two choices - continue paying for something you don't want, or abandon your land and recieve nothing. What if you decided you wanted more land, and all the surrounding land was also first land, and not able to be sold yet? You couldn't buy from your neighbours, and you couldn't sell and look for a bigger parcel anywhere else. That sort of thing.
|
Lillyann Chaplin
Registered User
Join date: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 38
|
02-21-2007 08:08
Hello, it saddens me to read this. I've read the whole thread right now and all I see is 'I would', 'I want', 'My Money' and yet you deny Linden Labs the same? All I read here is so selfcentered, 10U$ hurting so much? Is it so much pain to read the 'Subject to availability'? Please, if you only got a 'Premium Account' for 'First Land' and did not read that little remark then, so sorry, what right do you have to blame Linden Labs? You invested in something, based on a contract you did not read carefully, so be it. What do you expect? Do you expect someone coming and petting you and telling you it is ok? You've made the decision to go 'Premium', so make the same and go basic again or better yet: Do what I did: Read the blog entry, which states at the end: <Quote> We are actively looking for additional ways to increase premium value, and we would love to hear any ideas the community has on this. As always if you have any questions or feedback on the First Land issue itself, please email the concierge team at [email]concierge@lindenlab.com[/email]. <Unquote> I am so sorry that you did not get what you wanted from SL, really am. But if 'No First Land' is enough for you to quit, then be it. You have the opportunity to tell them how to get your.. ah... don't know the saying... 'Bang for the buck'... is that correct? So do it. Why complain about things 'Nobody cares about what we want'? Write an email. Am I 'Premium'? Yes I am. Do I have 'First Land'? No, so sorry. So why have I gone 'Premium'? Because I support what Linden Lab envisions. Because I've found so much more than L$ in 'Second Life'. Because I do not care if I get 'Freebies' from Linden Labs. Because I have yet to complain about the service, which is fast and very friendly. And because I found out so much more about SL... and about me. And because I am in love with a very special someone  Regards, Lillyann
|